Lincoln MKZ Hybrid tested by C&D

[akirby]

Find one ES review that calls it a "tarted up Camry or Avalon" or even comes close to what they say about the mkz. If they even mention it then it's just a passing comment. Total double standard.

[ZanatWork]

Ditto. In fact, I'm seeing more post-refresh Taurii lately. I guess NW customers like the "Aston" grille treatment.

I actually see quite a few Taruses (Taurii?) around here. These are actual retail sales...there are no fleet cars here.

[jpd80]

ZanatWork, on 24 Aug 2013 - 03:37, said:

The Taurus/MKS are mainly differentiated by the fact that the Taurus can move some metal while the MKS struggles to average 1000 sales per month.

Look at the difference in transaction price for what is basically a shared vehicle with different skin and trim,

those paltry 1,000 sales per month are high value sales well in excess of $46,000 a piece.

 

Sales don't tell the whole story.

Critics accuse Ford of making Lincoln vehicles too similar to the Ford originator whilst lambasting the lowly sales

but are hoisted by their own petard when it comes to profitability, those few sales making mega profit for Ford.

While Lincoln Brand probably does nothing to raise the status of Ford, it is still a very profitable venture,

it's just that the way it has been driven in the recent past was to please the accountants.

Edited August 24, 2013 by jpd80

[Hugh]

Oh, good grief...why did you even bother posting that?

 

Are you saying the MKX isn't a tarted-up Edge...obviously? Same hardware, almost identical profile, and so obviously related that posters as well as journalists all remarked on it...still do. DItto the Taurus/MKS.

 

I'm aware, very aware, of shared components in vehicles. In fact, it's why I got to help in writing buyer's guides during my auto parts period. I've known how that works since Ford's Fox platform and GM's A-platforms were commonplace in the market...which predates this period by a long way.

 

Some companies can share components, but differentiate the vehicle experiences. This problem, and the resulting dismal sales, are why we've had "should Ford close Lincoln?" stories for YEARS. That's not elitism, that's looking at obvious rebadges and terrible sales and having a valid point.

 

The same problems contributed to the deaths of Plymouth, Pontiac, and yeah, Mercury...who Lincoln is compared to repeatedly.

 

The authors don't create the sales reports, sparky. They don't make vehicles that are far too similar to less-expensive versions from the same company. While some authors are better than others, just like in every field, the story remains the same: Lincoln needs to create a different ownership and driving experience in its products. Some of that is styling, some of that is interior, but the whole product's identity needs to be something beyond the luxurious potential of the Taurus/Flex/Fusion/Expedition/etc.

 

It's not about creating an alternative business case, component sharing is a necessity in today's market. It's about doing it better...and maybe the story won't be about a whole division of Ford that has trouble outselling the Mustang alone.

Your experiences and my experiences are irrelevant. Writers experiences are irrelevant when there opinions on the facts such as platform sharing, weight and plebian commonality are targeted at one specific group and not to others. They are not worth anything and the ideals they espouse are vaporware.

Noone here myself included has come up with a valid alternative course of action for Lincoln except that they need to do it better. The good ideas club say the same thing using the cliche "If you build my fantasy, people will buy it. If you don't, you're a failure."

[ZanatWork]

Challenge Accepted.

"For five consecutive generations, the ES has been well accepted as a gussied-up Camry with a stronger guarantee and white-glove dealer treatment."

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/24/2013-lexus-es350-review/

Find one ES review that calls it a "tarted up Camry or Avalon" or even comes close to what they say about the mkz. If they even mention it then it's just a passing comment. Total double standard.

[RichardJensen]

And look at the havoc wreaked by the scorn of writers on the sales of the Lexus ES.

[ZanatWork]

Umm...if it's not for sale, it's not helping Lincoln. Therefore, "new designs" that aren't being produced don't count. The proof is in awards, reviews, and most importantly-sales.

I'm apparently better at this than you, at least in this case.

Which of those vehicles was designed completely by the new Lincoln design staff?

 

You really aren't good at this.

[ZanatWork]

Actually, they have largely good things to say about the latest ES, though I think all of the Lexus "Predator grille" styling is visually repugnant, something I may hate more than Caddy's "Art/Science" crap. That's saying something.

In a similar review of the ES hybrid, they're relatively complimentary, which makes sense: it out-performs the MKZ steadily while returning the same as-tested MPG. This is the kind of thing I hate seeing.

And look at the havoc wreaked by the scorn of writers on the sales of the Lexus ES.

[EBFlex]

I don't think you know the difference between a fact and an opinion.

 

You don't know much then do you?

[jpd80]

The latest ES is a very good product and had Lexus not brought out the new ES, the 2013 MKZ may have received higher acclaim.

Lexus has raised the bar again but it's not beynd Lincoln to progress with MKZ and other products and reach/exceed those benchmarks.

 

We all know the Lincoln renaissance was announced way too early, it was all Ford could do to keep interest in Lincoln products

until it had something else to show other than MKZ, launching a campaign with one soldier is always going to be an up hill battle.

Lincoln is flying on fumes until 2014 and the arrival of new product cycles, this is the tough boring in between time, not much longer.

Edited August 24, 2013 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

Umm...if it's not for sale, it's not helping Lincoln.

 

It rained today, therefore it will rain tomorrow. And the day after, and the day after and every day after that.

[ZanatWork]

Are these "future designs" bringing in money? Today? Are they adding anything beyond red ink until they can be purchased?

Your little statement there is ridiculous. You are assigning meaning to my statements that I neither infer or intend, which is misrepresentation...and should be beneath you.

It rained today, therefore it will rain tomorrow. And the day after, and the day after and every day after that.

[jpd80]

Is Lincoln currently profitable for Ford?

 

Lincoln is profit on top of existing originator vehicles therefore, the bulk of future cost is already amortized by Ford,

 

Discussing Lincoln's future product costs as if it's red ink flies in the face of good common sense

given the rmarket response to MKZ increases in sales but far more importantly transaction prices.

 

Remember that Ford's plan is not about maximizing sales numbers at the expense of profit per vehicle,

they would rather produce smaller amounts of Lincolns at higher profits than aggressively chase sales.

 

And getting back to the article in question, Ford sells around 3,200 Fusion Hybrids a month to around

700 odd MKZ hybrids but you can bet the farm that those 700 odd sales are absolute cash cows for Ford.

Edited August 24, 2013 by jpd80

[akirby]

Challenge Accepted.

"For five consecutive generations, the ES has been well accepted as a gussied-up Camry with a stronger guarantee and white-glove dealer treatment."http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/24/2013-lexus-es350-review/

 

That refers to the old model not the new one. But I'll give you that ONE reference. But let's see what C&D says since they're the ones who called the mkz a tarted up fusion.

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-lexus-es350-first-drive-review-a-rolling-wallflower-page-2

 

I rest my case. "Pedestrian roots" is the worst they said. A far cry from their mkz bashing.

[ZanatWork]

Given that the ES Hybrid, as I stated in a post above, out-performs the MKZ hybrid while returning 1 mpg better as-tested MPG...maybe it's simply less bash-able at this time.

I suggest, however, that every Lexus and indeed the entire company should be penalized for the eye-assault that is their current grille styling.

Edited August 24, 2013 by ZanatWork

[akirby]

Are these "future designs" bringing in money? Today? Are they adding anything beyond red ink until they can be purchased?

Your little statement there is ridiculous. You are assigning meaning to my statements that I neither infer or intend, which is misrepresentation...and should be beneath you.

 

That's a convenient excuse. You can't bash Ford's future strategy then pretend it doesn't exist.

[ZanatWork]

I'm sorry, but you're the person that insisted I should know a car's driving dynamics from prototype pics some time back, so...I can't accept you as anything like a credible source.

Also, what "future designs" beyond the MKC, which hasn't been seen in production form, yet? You're posting pure speculation and trying to argue it as a tangible.

Also, I'd like you or RJ to explain to me where I've ever said Lincoln's future is doomed. I make statement after statement about what's out now, yet you two continue the "Land of Make-Believe" approach with designs that haven't even been seen, yet.

I've said that I like the MKC prototype, for that matter...the only "future design" from Lincoln we've really seen...yet, I'm somehow bashing it?

You and your buddy seem to argue against me by making up complete fiction and assigning it as "my point". You'd have to work to make less sense.

That's a convenient excuse. You can't bash Ford's future strategy then pretend it doesn't exist.

[SoonerLS]

You don't know much then do you?

At least he knows the difference between a fact and an opinion.

[jpd80]

When is Lincoln launching in China, 2014?

 

I'd expect that we will be seeing a few new Lincolns then...

[SoonerLS]

I'm sorry, but you're the person that insisted I should know a car's driving dynamics from prototype pics some time back, so...I can't accept you as anything like a credible source.

That's rich, considering that you were the one using a car that was out of production at the time as evidence that Lincoln's new direction was a failure.

[ZanatWork]

You mean, how you were citing the new MKZ months before anyone got theirs shipped...and most of the line was, and is, selling tragically?

Yeah, that was pretty rich, but not in the way you mean.

That's rich, considering that you were the one using a car that was out of production at the time as evidence that Lincoln's new direction was a failure.

[EBFlex]

At least he knows the difference between a fact and an opinion.

 

Hardly. Even if you preface a statement by saying, "in my opinion" he still doesn't get it.