2015 Focus refresh leaked

[mackinaw]

then IMO they are living in the past...the trans acts differently and people are fine if you explain it to them,,,, and Ive yet to see any failures, feel for Blackhorse, but I also feel he was an anomoly.....

 

Not outright failures, but early units had bad internal seals that allowed gear lube to seep onto one or both of the clutch plates. If you had this, the trans will shudder/vibrate like crazy as it shifts. No problems yet with my ‘012 Focus SEL (38,000 miles). Just hoping it stays that way.

[Deanh]

 

Not outright failures, but early units had bad internal seals that allowed gear lube to seep onto one or both of the clutch plates. If you had this, the trans will shudder/vibrate like crazy as it shifts. No problems yet with my ‘012 Focus SEL (38,000 miles). Just hoping it stays that way.

"early units".....CR wont let that die..EVER, same with MFT......

[grbeck]

Are these reliability problems, or "it don't act like no danged automatic transmission I ever drove before" problems?

There were actual problems, not just people used to more conventional automatics.

[grbeck]

"early units".....CR wont let that die..EVER, same with MFT......

The surveys include cars from that model year, so that is why the magazine mentioned it.

 

The magazine also mentioned the astronomical failure rates (30+ percent!) of batteries for certain model years of the Civic Hybrid, so it's not as though it is only picking on Ford.

 

I love the new Focus, but there's no way I'd buy a 2012 model as a used car, based on what I've read. Fortunately, we'll probably be in a position to buy a new car when the 2015 model debuts. The bugs should be worked out by this point.

Edited February 27, 2014 by grbeck

[Deanh]

There were actual problems, not just people used to more conventional automatics.

initially there were a few, and NOT that many, I walked the service drive daily...and theres been ZIPPO, NADA, ZILCH for quite a while....and Ive had ZERO issues with both of the auto Fiestas...as my stepdaughter says...its an Automatic that thinks its a manual...

[BlackHorse]

If you assume they intend to maintain a certain profit level then any cost cutting measures do keep the price down. That would be true even if they sold the car at cost with no profit. In the end it doesn't matter anyway - here is a vehicle with these features for this price - consumers decide if it's worth it or not.

 

 

I've heard that for years and personally I just don't believe it anymore. All of these car companies plead poverty and act like they have to offer substandard this and that because they just couldn't possibly make money otherwise or the car would cost too much. Then every three months they report billions in profits and every five seconds they can afford to pay for TV commercials and Super Bowl Ads and so on. I don't want to take the thread off into a debate about how much money car companies make. It won't change my mind anyway. I just don't believe them when they claim they have to put a cheap interior in a 26 thousand dollar car to keep the price down. They all play this game and people just accept the BS at face value while they laugh all the way to the bank.

[Deanh]

 

 

I've heard that for years and personally I just don't believe it anymore. All of these car companies plead poverty and act like they have to offer substandard this and that because they just couldn't possibly make money otherwise or the car would cost too much. Then every three months they report billions in profits and every five seconds they can afford to pay for TV commercials and Super Bowl Ads and so on. I don't want to take the thread off into a debate about how much money car companies make. It won't change my mind anyway. I just don't believe them when they claim they have to put a cheap interior in a 26 thousand dollar car to keep the price down. They all play this game and people just accept the BS at face value while they laugh all the way to the bank.

ahhh, beancounters, well im sure theres some sort of alogorithm utilized weighing ultimate profitabilty vs expenditure, although it would have been nice to have King Ranch leather in the Fiesta....and I wouldnt brand the Automobile industry the worst, not by a LONG way, a lot of those posted profits are reinvested constantly in product revamps and appesing SOME authority that mandates safety, emmisions etc etc ....cant say the same for say...Exxon and the like.....

[BlackHorse]

ahhh, beancounters, well im sure theres some sort of alogorithm utilized weighing ultimate profitabilty vs expenditure, although it would have been nice to have King Ranch leather in the Fiesta....and I wouldnt brand the Automobile industry the worst, not by a LONG way, a lot of those posted profits are reinvested constantly in product revamps and appesing SOME authority that mandates safety, emmisions etc etc ....cant say the same for say...Exxon and the like.....

 

 

I wouldn't say the auto industry is the worst either. Hell they aren't nearly as bad as the cell phone companies for instance. Does anyone really believe that Verizon wireless needs 100 bucks a month or more to provide you with cell phone service? Not even close. Cable companies are no better and don't even get me started on big pharma. Did you know for instance that here in the US we pay more for internet service than any developed country in the world and our internet speed and service is the worst of any developed country in the world? While I am big supporter of capitalism I am also not ignorant of the fact that one of the bedrock rules of capitalism is "rip the customer off for as much as you can while providing the minimal amount of product or service you can get away with." They all do it. From Wal-Mart to Ford Motor Company.

[akirby]

Businesses seeking to maximize profits? Who knew?

 

If you think you wouldn't do the same thing if you were running a business then you're fooling yourself.

[BlackHorse]

Businesses seeking to maximize profits? Who knew?

 

If you think you wouldn't do the same thing if you were running a business then you're fooling yourself.

 

I couldn't care less what their excuse is for doing it. If you're getting ripped off and paying more for something than its worth than there's nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious. It has become so prevalent in the modern world that people don't even realize it or they make excuses for it. If it's okay with you then that's fine. It's okay with me to point out the obvious truth though and the obvious truth as that we generally get ripped off for most things that we buy because somebody somewhere is "maximizing profits." They can maximize profits all they want and I can say it's a ripoff all I want. Both are true.

Edited February 28, 2014 by BlackHorse

[akirby]

 

I couldn't care less what their excuse is for doing it is. If you're getting ripped off and paying more for something than its worth than there's nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious. It has become so prevalent in the modern world that people don't even realize it or they make excuses for it. If it's okay with you then that's fine. It's okay with me to point out the obvious truth though and the obvious truth as that we generally get ripped off for most things that we buy because somebody somewhere is "maximizing profits." They can maximize profits all they want and I can say it's a ripoff all I want. Both are true.

 

Did you know the markup on furniture is roughly 100%? Meaning they pay $500 and sell it to you for $1000. That must really kill you.

 

Something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. It has nothing to do with what it costs to produce it.

 

Why don't you open your own store and sell everything for $1 over cost?

[BlackHorse]

 

Did you know the markup on furniture is roughly 100%? Meaning they pay $500 and sell it to you for $1000. That must really kill you.

 

Something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. It has nothing to do with what it costs to produce it.

 

Why don't you open your own store and sell everything for $1 over cost?

 

 

I'm well aware of the mark up in the furniture industry. Tip your couch on its back once in awhile and take a look at the material that it's made up of and then you'll realize what a ripoff furniture is. The markup is well over 100% by the way. No it doesn't kill me or even bother me but apparently it bothers you when someone has no problem pointing out that most things that we buy as Americans are way overpriced and a ripoff. It doesn't matter how much you try to insult me about this, you're not going to change my mind or alter my point of view in the slightest.

 

 

Oh and if I did open a store there's no way I'd sell everything for a dollar over cost. I'd jack all that crap up to the stratosphere and rip all you suckers out there right the hell off and when you asked me about it I'd just smile and say "I'm not making any money at these prices man. It's all a fair price." And then I'd laugh at you all the way to the bank.

Edited February 28, 2014 by BlackHorse

[akirby]

So what is the acceptable amount of profit on a product so that you don't consider it a ripoff?

[BlackHorse]

So what is the acceptable amount of profit on a product so that you don't consider it a ripoff?

 

 

It's all dependent on the particular product. It's not one of those things where I would just say something like "Well 20% across the board on this particular line of products is okay." Doesn't work that way, at least not for me. You take for instance I just paid $700 for a brand new DPMS AR-15. I don't consider it a ripoff at all even though I know that it didn't cost DPMS anywhere near $700 to manufacture that rifle. To my mind, $700 is fair given the level of performance that rifle delivers and for various other reasons that I won't bother to bore you with. On the other hand these guys that think they are getting a good deal by paying $1100 or $1200 for a Kimber .45 pistol are just suckers in my estimation. I can get every bit the same durability and accuracy out of a $600 Taurus .45. With Kimber you're just paying for the name and because Kimber has done a great job at hyping their brand name and people believe their BS. As a general rule, new cars are a ripoff no matter what you buy in my opinion. We can debate about that for the next twenty years but you won't change my mind about that. New cars are a ripoff and I've purchased enough of them to say that with absolute confidence. And again it's not one of those things where I can say "New cars should have X amount of markup." It's all dependent from car to car, feature content, performance level and a variety of other factors. So you have to take it on a per product basis. This again comes back to your valid point that a product is worth what someone is willing to pay. That is true to a certain degree. The problem we have in this country is that most people have no idea that what they are willing to pay is more than the product is worth in many cases.

[akirby]

So it's all based on YOUR perception of value, which is TOTALLY subjective and could be TOTALLY different with every single person. Got it.

 

Features that are important to you may not be important to me. I paid $800 for 19" H spoke grey wheels on my Fusion because I loved them (and still do). I would have paid a lot more than that if necessary.

But someone who likes the standard wheels would probably say that's a ripoff.

 

A ripoff is duping someone into buying something WAY above market value. Dealer paint protection e.g. Why? Because you can get the exact same protection (or better) for 1/3 of the cost anywhere else.

 

 

 

Never mind. I'll just go beat my head against the wall instead. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with you.

[BlackHorse]

So it's all based on YOUR perception of value, which is TOTALLY subjective and could be TOTALLY different with every single person. Got it.

 

Features that are important to you may not be important to me. I paid $800 for 19" H spoke grey wheels on my Fusion because I loved them (and still do). I would have paid a lot more than that if necessary.

But someone who likes the standard wheels would probably say that's a ripoff.

 

A ripoff is duping someone into buying something WAY above market value. Dealer paint protection e.g. Why? Because you can get the exact same protection (or better) for 1/3 of the cost anywhere else.

 

 

 

Never mind. I'll just go beat my head against the wall instead. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with you.

 

 

As I said before, if you think that insulting me is the way to make your point you're in for a big let down. Most of the stuff that Americans buy is a ripoff. If you can't accept that, its your own problem. I'm not here to try and help you come to terms with it. It is what it is.

[Deanh]

 

 

As I said before, if you think that insulting me is the way to make your point you're in for a big let down. Most of the stuff that Americans buy is a ripoff. If you can't accept that, its your own problem. I'm not here to try and help you come to terms with it. It is what it is.

Youre an angrey man Blackhorse....but, how do you know its a rip off if you cant back it up with verifiable profit margins?.....a lot of the profits made by Automobile manufacturers is based on volume.....gonna sit back and watch responses whilst chowing on my Sausages and Faberge eggs.....lol

[BlackHorse]

Youre an angrey man Blackhorse....but, how do you know its a rip off if you cant back it up with verifiable profit margins?.....a lot of the profits made by Automobile manufacturers is based on volume.....gonna sit back and watch responses whilst chowing on my Sausages and Faberge eggs.....lol

 

 

I'm not at all sure how you have come to the conclusion that I'm "angry" but it is completely incorrect and again I'll just add that using insults to influence my point of view is pointless as it just won't work. If you are wondering how I know that new cars are overpriced it is simply by applying common sense and logic. There are no verifiable profit margins when it comes to automobile makers because such data is never released to the public and that alone should be enough to warrant a red flag for you. When car companies constantly plead poverty as they do and yet continually manage to turn in billions in profit every year than obviously something doesn't add up. I'm sure that by your estimation new cars are not a ripoff. That's your own problem, not mine and as I've said I'm not here to try and convince you or change your mind in any way. If you want to pay too much for a car, go right ahead, its none of my concern. God knows I've paid may fair share of too much money for cars over the years. Enjoy your breakfast.

Edited February 28, 2014 by BlackHorse

[Deanh]

 

 

I'm not at all sure how you have come to the conclusion that I'm "angry" but it is completely incorrect and again I'll just add that using insults to influence my point of view is pointless as it just won't work. If you are wondering how I know that new cars are overpriced it is simply by applying common sense and logic. There are no verifiable profit margins when it comes to automobile makers because such data is never released to the public and that alone should be enough to warrant a red flag for you. When car companies constantly plead poverty as they do and yet continually manage to turn in billions in profit every year than obviously something doesn't add up. I'm sure that by your estimation new cars are not a ripoff. That's your own problem, not mine and as I've said I'm not here to try and convince you or change your mind in any way. If you want to pay too much for a car, go right ahead, its none of my concern. God knows I've paid may fair share of too much money for cars over the years. Enjoy your breakfast.

its not an insult, just a simple deduction, hell if I walked around thinking everything that I bought was a rip off and I was being taken to the cleaners, I wouldnt be happy either.....and to that I pose this question....how much INVESTMENT do Auto manufacturers put into vehicles before they get any return?.....and not ALL auto manufacturers are successful.....thast a sign of good desirable product that leads to sales......

[akirby]

If you think new cars are a ripoff then stop buying them. Problem solved.

[BlackHorse]

its not an insult, just a simple deduction, hell if I walked around thinking everything that I bought was a rip off and I was being taken to the cleaners, I wouldnt be happy either.....

 

 

That's your problem, not mine. It's just the way of the world Deanh, there's no getting around it. If you expect me to get on here and lie to you and tell you that we are not getting ripped off get set for a long wait, it won't happen. I don't see any need to be angry, bitter or otherwise upset about it. It is just the way things are and until people as a society demand change, it won't change. I'm not on a crusade to change the world but I'm also not blind to the realities of it. This is the reality of our modern world, we get ripped off for most of the stuff that we buy, be it a tangible product or a service. I couldn't care less who agrees with me about that and who doesn't. It is what it is.

[twmalonehunter]

 

That's your problem, not mine. It's just the way of the world Deanh, there's no getting around it. If you expect me to get on here and lie to you and tell you that we are not getting ripped off get set for a long wait, it won't happen. I don't see any need to be angry, bitter or otherwise upset about it. It is just the way things are and until people as a society demand change, it won't change. I'm not on a crusade to change the world but I'm also not blind to the realities of it. This is the reality of our modern world, we get ripped off for most of the stuff that we buy, be it a tangible product or a service. I couldn't care less who agrees with me about that and who doesn't. It is what it is.

Maybe you're ripping your employer off for your time. Things cost what they cost for a reason, get over it.

Edited March 1, 2014 by twmalonehunter

[BlackHorse]

 

Maybe you're ripping your employer off for your time. Things cost what they cost for a reason, get over it.

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously I am over it but some of the rest of you sure do have a problem with it. I just got through explaining that it doesn't bother me didn't I? Yes I did. The fact that things cost what they cost does not preclude the fact the we get ripped off by the cost most of the time. As I said already, it is what it is. I doesn't bother me and I don't lose any sleep over it but I'm not going to go all head in the sand about it and pretend to myself, you or anyone else that we aren't getting ripped off. We are getting ripped off, get over it.

[BrewfanGRB]

 

I couldn't care less what their excuse is for doing it. If you're getting ripped off and paying more for something than its worth than there's nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious. It has become so prevalent in the modern world that people don't even realize it or they make excuses for it. If it's okay with you then that's fine. It's okay with me to point out the obvious truth though and the obvious truth as that we generally get ripped off for most things that we buy because somebody somewhere is "maximizing profits." They can maximize profits all they want and I can say it's a ripoff all I want. Both are true.

 

It not being worth the price at which they are offering it for sale is not "being ripped off". Your inability to correctly formulate an argument (you can start by understanding what "getting ripped off" actually means) is a big reason why you are dismissed as a crybaby crank. Think critically and make an argument.

 

And speaking of which, that's another good clue you're nothing but some old guy with nothing better to do but whine. You sold the Focus, got an old person's Corolla and loved it. Fine. I couldn't care less. But for the life of me, I can't fathom why you keep coming back HERE to continue to complain about it.

[BrewfanGRB]

 

 

It's all dependent on the particular product. It's not one of those things where I would just say something like "Well 20% across the board on this particular line of products is okay." Doesn't work that way, at least not for me. You take for instance I just paid $700 for a brand new DPMS AR-15. I don't consider it a ripoff at all even though I know that it didn't cost DPMS anywhere near $700 to manufacture that rifle. To my mind, $700 is fair given the level of performance that rifle delivers and for various other reasons that I won't bother to bore you with. On the other hand these guys that think they are getting a good deal by paying $1100 or $1200 for a Kimber .45 pistol are just suckers in my estimation. I can get every bit the same durability and accuracy out of a $600 Taurus .45. With Kimber you're just paying for the name and because Kimber has done a great job at hyping their brand name and people believe their BS. As a general rule, new cars are a ripoff no matter what you buy in my opinion. We can debate about that for the next twenty years but you won't change my mind about that. New cars are a ripoff and I've purchased enough of them to say that with absolute confidence. And again it's not one of those things where I can say "New cars should have X amount of markup." It's all dependent from car to car, feature content, performance level and a variety of other factors. So you have to take it on a per product basis. This again comes back to your valid point that a product is worth what someone is willing to pay. That is true to a certain degree. The problem we have in this country is that most people have no idea that what they are willing to pay is more than the product is worth in many cases.

 

You're...nah. You know what? I've promised myself I'm just not going let people like you get me upset anymore. You're simply not worth it.

Edited March 1, 2014 by BrewfanGRB