expresspotato Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Millions of apps have nothing to do with MFT. MFT is the application and it runs in Flash or HTML 5 which is totally independent of the underlying operating system. You don't just allow customers to download apps to an in vehicle system for a multitude of reasons. The same would be true of iOS or any other operating system. They would be stupid to continue usingFlagh / HTML 5... You can leverage the power of the operating system including its animations, views and layouts easily. I never said you would allow customers to download apps, but including them for Ford would be trivial. iOS is proprietary and owned by Apple and today would never see the light of day in a car. Mr snarky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresspotato Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Sync yes. MFT - no. Microsoft did not do any development of MFT - that was Bsquare, a company made up of former MS employees. Microsoft stepped in after the initial launch debacle to help stabilize it but Bsquare was still involved. RIM has no resources to work on application code. Several of my former co-workers went to work there and were recently let go. MFT will be html 5 and QNX provides a html 5 SDK and that's all they need. From one half baked solution to another! Really? HTML 5? Come on guys this isn't 2008... 2014 and the future deserve a better offering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 They would be stupid to continue usingFlagh / HTML 5... You can leverage the power of the operating system including its animations, views and layouts easily. I never said you would allow customers to download apps, but including them for Ford would be trivial. iOS is proprietary and owned by Apple and today would never see the light of day in a car. Mr snarky! Really? You can develop the code to easily use animations, views, and layouts with QNX easily? Interesting...mind sharing some of that? It supports HTML 5 very well, which is what you use. What you are referring to is redeveloping a system analogous to HTML 5, which is not trivial. From one half baked solution to another! Really? HTML 5? Come on guys this isn't 2008... 2014 and the future deserve a better offering. You're right, this isn't 2008, which is why they are using HTML 5. If this was 2008, they would be using Flash. If you really new how many apps are actually written using HTML 5, you would be amazed. Write once, deploy (nearly) everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 From one half baked solution to another! Really? HTML 5? Come on guys this isn't 2008... 2014 and the future deserve a better offering. Try sticking to things you know and leave the IT stuff to the IT guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) They would be stupid to continue usingFlagh / HTML 5... You can leverage the power of the operating system including its animations, views and layouts easily. This right here shows you have no idea what you are talking about. You do realize the power of HTML5 is in browser processing of animations, views and layouts easily, right? I mean the entire web is moving toward HTML5 at this point because it is so powerful and great at what it does. Flash died because of HTML5. And while you're right about iOS being proprietary, why would you ever suggest that it will never be in a car, when in fact Apple has been trying to get into the car infotainment industry the last few years. You should probably do some more research before talking on this subject. Edited February 28, 2014 by jinx8402 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresspotato Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Millions of apps have nothing to do with MFT. MFT is the application and it runs in Flash or HTML 5 which is totally independent of the underlying operating system. You don't just allow customers to download apps to an in vehicle system for a multitude of reasons. The same would be true of iOS or any other operating system. So now here is CarPlay... You're really smart Edited March 4, 2014 by expresspotato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresspotato Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 This right here shows you have no idea what you are talking about. You do realize the power of HTML5 is in browser processing of animations, views and layouts easily, right? I mean the entire web is moving toward HTML5 at this point because it is so powerful and great at what it does. Flash died because of HTML5. And while you're right about iOS being proprietary, why would you ever suggest that it will never be in a car, when in fact Apple has been trying to get into the car infotainment industry the last few years. You should probably do some more research before talking on this subject. I'm CTO of a software engineering company and have done Android Developement for over 4 years and HTML5 development for over 3... Performance is performance and HTML anything is mediocre at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expresspotato Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 You should probably do some more research before talking on this subject. What do you do for a living jinx8402? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 So now here is CarPlay... You're really smart Ummm, you do realize that CarPlay, if it is just duplicating the iPhone screen onto the car's screen which is what it appears to be, is not the same thing as installing apps on the car, right? I would hope so, if those credentials you are flashing around are real. It appears to be simply remote desktop for your phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm CTO of a software engineering company and have done Android Developement for over 4 years and HTML5 development for over 3... A CTO who does software development? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx8402 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm actually an IT Professional (Database Admin for day job, Web Developer as a side job) thank you very much. So, yes I know what HTML5 can do. And a local HTML5 app can be just as good/powerful as a native app. Yes, it can also be worst if done wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Try sticking to things you know and leave the IT stuff to the IT guys.Ha Ha Ha ! I just heard a story from a Ford employee who had an unofficial tour of the Engineer Computer Center "platform" just last year. The Sync/MFT development system are behind a 6' chain link fence. Too many IT folks were going over there and pushing buttons ! Only engineers directly related to the project are allowed inside !!! I have a VERY low opinion of Ford IT. They are really good at making rules, quoting rules and telling you that you are not following the rules. They are NOT any good at solving problems. (Been there, done that, got the Tee shirt !) Edited March 4, 2014 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Ha Ha Ha ! I just heard a story from a Ford employee who had an unofficial tour of the Engineer Computer Center "platform" just last year. The Sync/MFT development system are behind a 6' chain link fence. Too many IT folks were going over there and pushing buttons ! Only engineers directly related to the project are allowed inside !!! I have a VERY low opinion of Ford IT. They are really good at making rules, quoting rules and telling you that you are not following the rules. They are NOT any good at solving problems. (Been there, done that, got the Tee shirt !) You realize that Ford IT is in charge of PCs at Ford, and not the ones developing MFT/Sync, etc, right? At least, I hope that is the case, and judging by your post, I think you know that, and know why. Personally, I can't stand IT either, and I'm a developer. The IT folks are the ones that make our jobs difficult. "Oh, you want to install some development tools? Well, you are going to have to call the help desk to get permissions added." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) The IT folks are the ones that make our jobs difficult. "Oh, you want to install some development tools? Well, you are going to have to call the help desk to get permissions added." There are very valid reasons that separation of responsibilities exists in the IT world. In that particular example it's an easy financial one: licensing. And there are two sides to every coin. There are plenty of things users do to make the lives of IT folks difficult. Edited March 5, 2014 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) There are very valid reasons that separation of responsibilities exists in the IT world. In that particular example it's an easy financial one: licensing. And there are two sides to every coin. There are plenty of things users do to make the lives of IT folks difficult. In this instance, it's purely security and not licensing. It's painful when the IT dept. doesn't trust the developers that build the apps that run on the servers to at least have local admin rights on the PC. I can't say I disagree with you. From the IT side of things, I can definitely see the point, but at least trust your developers. Heck, I've been in places that won't even let us change screen savers! Edited March 5, 2014 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadman64 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'd love for Ford to just adopt iOS in the car. It's the logical move to have all the processing on your phone. Then as your phone evolves, your car won't be holding it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 In this instance, it's purely security and not licensing. It's painful when the IT dept. doesn't trust the developers that build the apps that run on the servers to at least have local admin rights on the PC. I can't say I disagree with you. From the IT side of things, I can definitely see the point, but at least trust your developers. Heck, I've been in places that won't even let us change screen savers! Many times security edicts come from outside the IT department, which is sometimes a good thing. And if there's no reason for a developer to have full administrator rights for everything on the PC, he shouldn't have them. There are very few instances where such rights should be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Many times security edicts come from outside the IT department, which is sometimes a good thing. And if there's no reason for a developer to have full administrator rights for everything on the PC, he shouldn't have them. There are very few instances where such rights should be required. I'm aware of the edicts coming from outside the IT department, I get that. As far as admin rights for a developer, try deploying web services and web applications to your machine for testing. You want to restart IIS? Oh yeah, you've got to have admin rights. Want to install a service on your machine? Oh yeah, you've got to have admin rights. And when, as a developer, I am under a deadline, and you suddenly change rights due to security changes, and it pushes me back 3 days because I can't do those simple tasks that I could do two days ago, you are causing major problems. Sure, there are ways around it (my current client is using ViewFinity), but you dam well better have them figured out before you start impacting my work and causing me to miss deadlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm aware of the edicts coming from outside the IT department, I get that. As far as admin rights for a developer, try deploying web services and web applications to your machine for testing. You want to restart IIS? Oh yeah, you've got to have admin rights. Want to install a service on your machine? Oh yeah, you've got to have admin rights. And when, as a developer, I am under a deadline, and you suddenly change rights due to security changes, and it pushes me back 3 days because I can't do those simple tasks that I could do two days ago, you are causing major problems. Sure, there are ways around it (my current client is using ViewFinity), but you dam well better have them figured out before you start impacting my work and causing me to miss deadlines. Well that sounds more like bad IT security implementation. Like I said, there are some cases where admin rights are justified, but most people who think they need them usually don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Well that sounds more like bad IT security implementation. Like I said, there are some cases where admin rights are justified, but most people who think they need them usually don't. I would agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I would agree with that. You should be doing development on a development server, not your desktop. Preferably a Linux vm of course....... (and I know that you knew that I knew that you knew that was coming) If they want you to do it on your desktop then you should have admin rights just like a development server. And you should provide your own support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 You should be doing development on a development server, not your desktop. If they want you to do it on your desktop then you should have admin rights just like a development server. And you should provide your own support. Agree 100%, and that's what I do for most clients. This one client in particular, though, doesn't agree with that. Heck, I had to request special permissions to have access to deploy code to the test server for testing. Preferably a Linux vm of course....... (and I know that you knew that I knew that you knew that was coming) Can I run MS Visual Studio, MS SQL Server, and IIS on Linux? Hmmm, maybe VMWare running on Linux to host my Windows Server 2012 dev machine. (yes, I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew that was coming) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Can I run MS Visual Studio, MS SQL Server, and IIS on Linux? No, but why on earth would you want to? (and you know that I kn........ahhh never mind) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey151 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Agree 100%, and that's what I do for most clients. This one client in particular, though, doesn't agree with that. Heck, I had to request special permissions to have access to deploy code to the test server for testing. Can I run MS Visual Studio, MS SQL Server, and IIS on Linux? Hmmm, maybe VMWare running on Linux to host my Windows Server 2012 dev machine. (yes, I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew that was coming) No, but why on earth would you want to? (and you know that I kn........ahhh never mind) Sounds just like my office..................... Edited March 6, 2014 by Bailey151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) You should be doing development on a development server, not your desktop. Boy you don't realize how IRONIC that statement is ! Powertrain software has ALWAYS been done on "servers" (the term "server" did not exist 30+ years ago; they were just large "time sharing" machines) and still is today. The management is so naive they think the software engineers are actually doing development work on their desktops when the only thing they use them for is to remotely log into multiple flavors of Un*x servers. IT is very good at say "You shouldn't be doing this" and very bad at stepping up and actually helping to migrate to something they do approve ! Edited March 6, 2014 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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