At Walgreen, renouncing corporate citizenship?

[mettech]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/renouncing-corporate-citizenship-001240207.html

 

"...The state (Illinois) gave Walgreen $46 million in corporate income tax credits over 10 years in exchange for a pledge to create 500 jobs and invest in upgrading its offices. The state also provided $625,000 in training money and $875,000 in other tax incentives.

Mr. Wasson’s actions, however, could soon run counter to his words. The same chief executive who said he was so “proud of our Illinois heritage” is now considering moving the company’s headquarters to Switzerland as part of a merger with Alliance Boots, a European drugstore chain.

Why? To lower Walgreen’s tax bill even further.

Alarmingly, dozens of large United States companies are contemplating the increasingly popular tax-skirting tactic known as an inversion. Under the strategy, companies merge with foreign rivals in countries with lower tax rates and then reincorporate there while still enjoying the benefits of doing a large part of their business in the United States. AbbVie, a drug company spun off from Abbott Laboratories, is in talks to merge with its rival Shire, based in Ireland, Europe’s equivalent of a tax haven. Medtronic announced plans to merge with Covidien, also based in Ireland. Similarly, Pfizer sought to buy AstraZeneca, based in Britain, where the tax rate is lower than it is in the United States, but AstraZeneca’s board rejected that offer..."

 

 

Another sign that the tax rate in the USA is to high.

[Edstock]

Another sign that the tax rate in the USA is to high.

 

 

You just don't get it . . .

[akirby]

 

 

You just don't get it . . .

 

You can't force businesses to operate in higher cost states or countries. If you make the U.S. the same cost or cheaper than other countries then businesses will come here, which creates more jobs and more taxpayers.

 

You cannot tax a business. Any taxes paid by a company are ultimately paid for by consumers.

 

You just don't get it.....

[xr7g428]

I guess that Edstock is unaware that Canada has been lowering corporate taxes to attract more American companies to move north?

[RangerM]

According to Ed, I don't "get it" either. (See the GDP thread) Perhaps that's the new catch phrase now?

 

"You just don't get it"

 

Wouldn't seem to have much attraction to those who disagree.

[cal50]

 

 

You just don't get it . . .

 

 

 

If your taxes, energy prices and regulations are greater than a competitor state or country the only thing you are not getting will be the work and jobs.

[akirby]

According to Ed, I don't "get it" either. (See the GDP thread) Perhaps that's the new catch phrase now?

 

"You just don't get it"

 

Wouldn't seem to have much attraction to those who disagree.

 

It's a lot easier to say "you just don't get it" than it is to actually offer up a viable solution to the problem (real or perceived).

[twintornados]

Level the playing field by creating a tariff on companies that pull this maneuver.....the tariff offsets the loss of revenue that ultimately has to get "picked up" elsewhere....and also look at overhauling the tax code so that is fairly applied to one and all....

[Edstock]

Level the playing field by creating a tariff on companies that pull this maneuver.....the tariff offsets the loss of revenue that ultimately has to get "picked up" elsewhere....and also look at overhauling the tax code so that is fairly applied to one and all....

 

For sure. It keeps the multi-nationals from playing "Gimme or I take my marbles and go away". The way they work it, it's a shake-down. But all the GOP party faithful can do is the knee-jerk response of lower and lower taxes on business, in a race to the bottom, and somehow it's supposed to work, sorta like trickle-down was supposed to work.

[akirby]

You cannot tax a business. Businesses simply pass taxes and tariffs along to consumers as a cost of doing business. The higher the taxes the harder it is for a business to grow or to even get started.

 

Every time you buy a product or use a service YOU are paying the corporate taxes and tariffs. A fact that liberals either can't comprehend or don't want to admit.

[cal50]

You cannot tax a business. Businesses simply pass taxes and tariffs along to consumers as a cost of doing business.

 

 

.......or it comes out of the employees wages , benefits or fewer employes.

[RangerM]

 

....in a race to the bottom.....

Can anyone explain, what does this even mean?

 

It's a neat-o catchphrase, but exactly what bottom are we supposed to be reaching? Noone I know, even the most diehard capitalist, is trying to reach a bottom of anything.

Edited July 5, 2014 by RangerM

[cal50]

Can anyone explain, what does this even mean?

 

It's a neat-o catchphrase, but exactly what bottom are we supposed to be reaching? Noone I know, even the most diehard capitalist, is trying to reach a bottom of anything.

 

 

Its a buzz word for someone that feels that the ideology of the opposing party is the wrong direction for the country yet the real world results of the current admin and failed policies are somehow moving it in a positive direction.

Bush was bad for the economy and put the economy in a nose dive but Obama took over and hit the full afterburner's right into the ground.

[phil1336]

The whole issue of Tax Reform and who should foot the bill to provide the desired and needed Government benefits will go on forever. Tax Big Business, they will leave for a tax friendlier State or Country or as Kirby says, will pass the cost on to their Customers. Cut Employee`s wages and Benefits, really? Lower then the current $7.94 @ hr Federal Minimum wage? The "Poor" don`t make enough to fill up the Treasury Coffers. The "Rich" and "Corporate America" won`t pay as they have legal Tax Loopholes. The vanishing "Middle Class" now better known as "The Working Poor" is so quickly shrinking that even they can no longer support the Tax Base. Capital Gains Taxes are off the table too as it will diminish (Vulture Capitalists). Taxing the Wealthy based on normal Wages and Income won`t work cause their CPA`s are smarter then the IRS! There is no quick fix. The good news though is that the top 2%ers are wealthier then ever. High-End vehicle sales have never been better. Rolls Royce, Bentley, Ferrari, etc have a year long wait list. There is a (shortage) of Mega-Mansions LIstings for Oceanfront property everywhere as well as in the Hampton`s on Long Island. Happy days are here again,.....for a select few! The Billionaire Koch Brothers and their Lobby Group, "Americans for Prosperity" have your back. Too bad it has a "Bulls Eye" pinned to it.

[RangerM]

The vanishing "Middle Class" now better known as "The Working Poor" is so quickly shrinking that even they can no longer support the Tax Base.

 

What is the/your definition of "Middle Class"?

 

What I'm asking is......what should (in your opinion) define the "Middle Class"? Is it an income, a skill set, a lifestyle, or some combination of all?

[Edstock]

Can anyone explain, what does this even mean?

 

It's a neat-o catchphrase, but exactly what bottom are we supposed to be reaching? Noone I know, even the most diehard capitalist, is trying to reach a bottom of anything.

 

Not only is it a "neat-o catchphrase", it's accurate, too. Let's see, take a rapacious, sociopathic company, like, say, Caterpillar. Cat has a track record, of pulling out (Electromotive Corp) of one area, like Ontario, Canada, and setting up in an area with lower wages and taxes.

 

So, the states next to wherever Cat settles, start pitching the company to consider moves to other states, who offer tax deals to get Cat or others to move. Things like decade-long tax holidays.

 

So, the "neat-o catchphrase" describes a process of extortion.

 

But ya gotta believe what ya wanna believe. Maybe a national US minimum wage of a dollar an hour will just bring on a surge of business? Like I said, that kind of mind-set actually believed in trickle-down, too.

 

Now, Kirby says "You cannot tax a business", well governments have been doing that for thousands of years. Obviously, those costs of business are passed on, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

So, Kirby exhorts that business taxes are BAD.

 

Well, he's entitled to his myopic opinion. Problem is, the greedy capitalists take the lower taxes that Kirby is in thrall of, and take all that money and keep it in the corporate treasury, or better yet, in an anonymous account in the Caymans.

 

What, re-invest in America and Americans? You must be joking. For every good corporate citizen like Ford, there 2 or 3 vultures like Cerberus or the Koch Brothers.

 

But that's the way the GOP wants it, so it must be ideal. Thanks to those low taxes, look at your lovely brand-new infrastructure, beautiful roads and high-speed rail systems. You can chortle over the excellent public education your grand-children will be receiving. :happy feet:

[RangerM]

 

Not only is it a "neat-o catchphrase", it's accurate, too. Let's see, take a rapacious, sociopathic company, like, say, Caterpillar. Cat has a track record, of pulling out (Electromotive Corp) of one area, like Ontario, Canada, and setting up in an area with lower wages and taxes.

 

So, the states next to wherever Cat settles, start pitching the company to consider moves to other states, who offer tax deals to get Cat or others to move. Things like decade-long tax holidays.

 

So, the "neat-o catchphrase" describes a process of extortion.

 

But ya gotta believe what ya wanna believe. Maybe a national US minimum wage of a dollar an hour will just bring on a surge of business? Like I said, that kind of mind-set actually believed in trickle-down, too.

 

Now, Kirby says "You cannot tax a business", well governments have been doing that for thousands of years. Obviously, those costs of business are passed on, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

So, Kirby exhorts that business taxes are BAD.

 

Well, he's entitled to his myopic opinion. Problem is, the greedy capitalists take the lower taxes that Kirby is in thrall of, and take all that money and keep it in the corporate treasury, or better yet, in an anonymous account in the Caymans.

 

What, re-invest in America and Americans? You must be joking. For every good corporate citizen like Ford, there 2 or 3 vultures like Cerberus or the Koch Brothers.

 

But that's the way the GOP wants it, so it must be ideal. Thanks to those low taxes, look at your lovely brand-new infrastructure, beautiful roads and high-speed rail systems. You can chortle over the excellent public education your grand-children will be receiving. :happy feet:

Does Caterpillar operate in a vacuum, or is Cat is an international company, competing with every other company in the world making high-level construction equipment?

 

In order to compete, Caterpillar must operate as efficiently as possible. There are many factors that go into this decision--taxes and wage costs are part of it. The higher that either go dictates the higher the price they must charge for their product, OR the lower other costs must sink to make up for the deficit. Do you agree?

 

If not, what is the economic rationale that says that (all other things being equal) a company remains viable by charging more for their product than their competitors in the marketplace?

 

My grandchildren will be just fine, thanks. I don't intend to leave my children empty-handed.

Edited July 5, 2014 by RangerM

[akirby]

So take away corporate taxes and Caterpillar no longer has any incentive to move from state to state to get tax breaks. Problem solved.

 

As for businesses taking the extra profit and keeping it in their pockets that's ridiculous except in the case of a monopoly which should already be regulated.

 

If you're a business and you suddenly cut your costs by 10% you're going to lower your prices so you can get more sales and therefore more profit. There will always be a company that's willing to take lower margins to gain market share.

 

And speaking of caterpillar or those other evil corporations - they're paying market wages. They have to pay market wages or employees leave for other jobs that do pay market wages.

 

But it's so much easier to play the victim and complain about the evil corporations and look for government to 'fix' the problem with laws and taxes than it is to do something logical within the natural economic system that will achieve the same goal.

[phil1336]

 

What is the/your definition of "Middle Class"?

 

What I'm asking is......what should (in your opinion) define the "Middle Class"? Is it an income, a skill set, a lifestyle, or some combination of all?

Not sure how to classify what Middle Class is nowadays. I know what its (not), and that is working Part Time with little to no benefits for $7.94 @ hr!

[phil1336]

 

Not only is it a "neat-o catchphrase", it's accurate, too. Let's see, take a rapacious, sociopathic company, like, say, Caterpillar. Cat has a track record, of pulling out (Electromotive Corp) of one area, like Ontario, Canada, and setting up in an area with lower wages and taxes.

 

So, the states next to wherever Cat settles, start pitching the company to consider moves to other states, who offer tax deals to get Cat or others to move. Things like decade-long tax holidays.

 

So, the "neat-o catchphrase" describes a process of extortion.

 

But ya gotta believe what ya wanna believe. Maybe a national US minimum wage of a dollar an hour will just bring on a surge of business? Like I said, that kind of mind-set actually believed in trickle-down, too.

 

Now, Kirby says "You cannot tax a business", well governments have been doing that for thousands of years. Obviously, those costs of business are passed on, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

So, Kirby exhorts that business taxes are BAD.

 

Well, he's entitled to his myopic opinion. Problem is, the greedy capitalists take the lower taxes that Kirby is in thrall of, and take all that money and keep it in the corporate treasury, or better yet, in an anonymous account in the Caymans.

 

What, re-invest in America and Americans? You must be joking. For every good corporate citizen like Ford, there 2 or 3 vultures like Cerberus or the Koch Brothers.

 

But that's the way the GOP wants it, so it must be ideal. Thanks to those low taxes, look at your lovely brand-new infrastructure, beautiful roads and high-speed rail systems. You can chortle over the excellent public education your grand-children will be receiving. :happy feet:

Exactly what Right To Work States like South Carolina champion. Get rid of Labor Unions, strip workers of Collective bargaining rights and throw Seniority out the door too! The old early 20th Century Robber Barons did it right the first time!

[akirby]

So you think all those auto factories in Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina (and Tennessee) are paying minimum wage with no benefits.

 

Collective Bargaining can only exceed market pay and benefits where they have a monopoly on an industry. Otherwise the companies that have unions can't compete with the ones that don't. It's that simple. That's why Ford and GM had to renegotiate their union contracts so they could compete with the imports. It's not a "race to the bottom" because auto manufacturing is a skilled job that demands higher than average wages.

 

I have a feeling the people who complain about "evil corporations" and slave labor have never worked in a corporation or experienced market based compensation.

[Ron W.]

http://www.alternet.org/economy/why-we-might-be-verge-another-financial-crash

 

" Even as individual companies become more productive, producing more goods with lower costs and less labor, the economy has been stagnant because there is little demand for those goods. And that's because of the simple Econ 101 maxim, dating back to Adam Smith: demand is what drives economies, and wages are the principal driver of demand. "

 

 

 

Interesting read.

[RangerM]

Not sure how to classify what Middle Class is nowadays. I know what its (not), and that is working Part Time with little to no benefits for $7.94 @ hr!

I may not be old enough to remember a time without the minimum wage, but I have serious doubts it was ever a middle class wage.

 

As we have moved from agrarian, to industrial, to post-industrial it is inevitable that the characteristics of Middle Class have changed. We have not (unfortunately) kept our educational system in line with that. This (I assume) we can agree on.

[cal50]

Exactly what Right To Work States like South Carolina champion. Get rid of Labor Unions, strip workers of Collective bargaining rights and throw Seniority out the door too!

 

 

In 1914 Henry Ford raised wages to a record amount.

$5 for a nine hour work day up from $2.38

 

The UAW was founded in 1938

(That's a nice wage increase 24 YEARS before the UAW appeared)

Currently our wages and benefits have been reduced with UAW representation while more and more manufacturing jobs are being created in the south.

A paying job is better than no job and low taxes, energy costs and work regulations do more for jobs and good paying jobs than any union can provide.

[xr7g428]

http://www.alternet.org/economy/why-we-might-be-verge-another-financial-crash

 

" Even as individual companies become more productive, producing more goods with lower costs and less labor, the economy has been stagnant because there is little demand for those goods. And that's because of the simple Econ 101 maxim, dating back to Adam Smith: demand is what drives economies, and wages are the principal driver of demand. "

 

 

 

Interesting read.

That is an interesting read, but it is almost entirely false.

 

This statement in particular: "wages are the principal driver of demand. " Is very misleading.

 

Any Econ 101 student would get an F for that answer. The primary driver of demand is and always has been price. But even at that, there are five drivers of individual demand (income is one of the five).

 

1. Price of the good or service. Price goes up, demand goes down. Price goes down demand goes up. Exactly how much is called elasticity of demand. If you have to have gas to get to work, you will buy gas no matter what the price until it costs more than the trip to work is worth.
2. Prices of substitutes and related products. You might substitute olive oil for butter if the price of butter is too high. You might never ride the bus if the subway is cheaper.
3. Income of those with the demand. More income increases demand, but with in limits: you won't buy more butter than you can eat.
4. Tastes or preferences of those with the demand. Apple products sell for more than their functional equivalents because they have prestige value.
5. Expectations. These are usually about whether the price will go up. Employers are reluctant to expand business if they thin that the cost of employees will rise faster than profits. Consumers won't buy houses if they think the price may fall.