Ford Motor Company

[HoustonPerson]

1. I did not say "failures" - I said "short commings"

2. No has yet looked at the Toyota web site either.

[RichardJensen]

Oh, yeah, the Darrell Waltrip special edition. Limited to 2000, 1999 will be returned to Toyota, as Michael Waltrip won't even buy one.

[2005Explorer]

Lack of credible products?

 

F150

A great start; but already failing in the market place. The biggest short comming against the competition is no engine or transmission and it's inability to tow any thing over 4,000 lbs.

 

Mustang

This could be a great "calling card" for Ford - again it is the lack of 10,000 items - 6,000 could be done at no cost to make the product worthy in the market place. Living off the past, does not make a product fit for today's world.

 

Fusion Triplets

Coming this Fall: Edge

That's just the immediate picture. Why are you so focused on the Super Duty trucks?

Ford is no longer in the car business, their only current choice is to at least attempt to get the Super Duties "half right" with the next release. The Dodge Cummins (2500/3500)with the new automatic for late summer 2007 will be the nail in the coffin for Ford Super Duty. Dodge has at least addressed 60% of the items needed to succeed in the 3/4 and 1 ton market. FMC continues to let the truck business go the way of the car business; meaning there is no FMC.

P.S. I'm not in denial of Ford's problems, I just don't agree that there is nothing positive happening

The "postive" is knowing what is wrong and fixing it. Company management has to address the problems, and engineers have to do their job - there has been no indication they are even attempting to do this.

 

The German's dream their pickup would sell like the F-Series. Considering the Ram is loosing more marketshare with each passing year the dream of being the best selling pickup is fading away at a rapid pace. They have sat back and let Ford and GM develop all new pickups...where is the all new Ram? The current one came out in 2002 and was just a facelift of the previous one from 1994. They added new sheetmetal, a grossly oversized grille and of course the minivan dash still underneath the vehicle is not that much different. Compare a 1994 Ford pickup to a 2007 Ford pickup and I think you can see who has been a LOT more progressive in their pickup designs.

 

I wonder if DCX is going to let the Ram linger on like they did before 1994. Remember that hunk of crap??? I have NEVER in my life saw an uglier truck (especially the cab) then the pre-1994 Ram. It was terrible!

 

When it comes to pickups Ford needs to worry most about GM. DCX is in a distant 3rd place and is not gaining. GM and Ford OWN the light duty and heavy duty pickup market.

 

The Dodge 2500/3500 will be the nail in the coffin for the Super Duty? PLEASE! What a joke!

 

I would love for you to post the 10,000 shortcomings in the Super Duty. If you can throw out a number like 10,000 you need to be able to back it up. What is the problem? Frame too weak? Front suspension too weak? Doors falling off? Transmission falling out? Welds and bolts not strong enough? While you are at it could you please address the 10,000 issues with the Mustang as well??? Please list every one of them. If the Mustang is a hunk of junk like you are trying to claim (I mean anything with 10,000 shortcomings would be worse then a Ford Pinto or Chevy Vega) then tell us why this car is so bad.

 

If you dislike the F-Series as much as you say...don't buy one...it's just that simple. Go talk to Dr. Z and get one of his German engineered trucks.

 

And the question of - 10,000 major deficiencies in product: You need only look at the Toyota Tundra web site, which has been “public†for over one year now, directly targets “one major†major item missing on every FMC vehicle. And if a FMC employee here on Blue Oval says it not true, then they are saying so strictly on a basis of denial. I have driven dozens of F150 and SuperDuty’s all over Texas and you guys are missing the mark in a big way.

 

I looked at the site and figured it out...Ford forgot about the Helmet Compatible Headrest They are doomed!!!

 

As far as the Toyota website is concerned...who cares??? What Toyota pickup will compete with a Super Duty??? Show me how the Tundra can out work, out tow, and out haul a Super Duty or even an F-150 for that matter. I don't know about the all new one...but it's not here yet...and it seems to be delayed again and again so only the current one matters right now.

Edited September 9, 2006 by 2005Explorer

[rc38]

Mr. Mulally has his work cut out for him. In FMC’s current state with only truck sales left, time is of the essence to save the company. He can definitely rally the troops; but his major short coming fully comprehending consumer demographics and how badly Ford has missed the market in the last 40 years can be a major stumbling block.

 

Even in the last three years GM has made some significant changes (at least for GM), while FMC continues to evaporate. The DaimlerChrysler merger has given Chrysler a shot in the arm and it has been the “new†market understanding that has led them to a somewhat brighter picture.

 

And the question of - 10,000 major deficiencies in product: You need only look at the Toyota Tundra web site, which has been “public†for over one year now, directly targets “one major†major item missing on every FMC vehicle. And if a FMC employee here on Blue Oval says it not true, then they are saying so strictly on a basis of denial. I have driven dozens of F150 and SuperDuty’s all over Texas and you guys are missing the mark in a big way.

 

With no competitive power train improvement on the F150 this year it will go the way of the Taurus by the end of 2007.

 

Mr. Mulally will need to save the company by getting the 60% of the 10,000 short comings corrected asap. The 6.4L diesel in the SuperDuty will not do it. If immediate corrections are not made to the trucks now, the cash hemorrhaging will continue unabated.

 

 

Well i'm working on the launch,and we just finished up the 1PP builds. Now we start to address the changes in the build during the FEU builds. Really confused on your 10,000 items. As far as the major item missing,as Richard brought up the nascar package for the nascar crowd. Did you really think that package did anything before? The harley package was a lot better package as far as sales.

Only other thing is Toyota getting the bass pro deal,but that was a business move by bass pro,not Ford.

 

I have a feeling your either someone on the launch that thinks his ideas are going unnoticed or a disgruntled engineer from a supplier. If i'm wrong on either one of these assumptions,my apoliges for assuming ahead of time.

I just don't see this as constructive way of dealing with a VERY important launch to throw a blanket statement as you have posted here.

 

I will be waiting for your reply.

Edited September 9, 2006 by rc38

[DSenstad]

Houston reject has all of 7 posts, half of them saying, "Come look at our Toyota site... pleeeease".

 

Someone should tell him that we already have our limits of trolls, he should simply move on to one of the other boards if he hasn't been kicked off of them already.

[HoustonPerson]

Just a few of the 10,000 items (since some have asked):

 

Ok, the Ford Media and public information is now “publicâ€. Many have asked me about those 10,000 items? If you take the time to read the media kits, you will see a significant number of deficiencies are addressed; at least in the press kit. Whether or not Ford can delivery on their promises remains to be seen.

 

http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_di...&make_id=92

 

Even though most of these 10,000 items are global to all FMC vehicles, I will focus only on the Super Duties since this could well be the last chance Ford has to save itself (new CEO or not).

 

Rear Suspension – 100 items:

 

Ford claims in their press release that significant improvements have been made to the rear suspension (only 20 years past due). The current 2006/07 Super Duty has about 100 major short comings, and in the press release I can see about 50 items have been addressed: Much longer leaf springs, revised shock valving, all new bushings throughout, and many others; but did they get the other 50 changes that need to be made? Has correct and proper “rebound control†become a part of that change? Has the sub-standard rear shock upper cantilever bolt attachment been corrected? I do not know, I have not seen the truck.

 

AC/Heat system – 500 items:

 

Currently there are about 500 major short comings (compared to the competition). For all practical purposes FMC does not have an AC system on any vehicle – and has not for over 20 years. If you take the time to read all pages of the press release you can pick up on about 250 significant changes. Even one of those was mentioned on Toyota’s direct attack on Ford in regard to the Montana Coal Miners – and yet no one caught it? If you want go back to the Toyota web site it is still there! Ford promises 10 degrees lower temps on the AC system – yep it’s there in the press release. Best I can calculate that is still about 10-15 warmer than the competition. Currently Ford does not offer a “working†AC system on the 2007 F150 so it remains to be seen if one is now available for the 2008 Super Duties? But what about the other needed and required items to become competitive – like weather stripping – where is it? I know my 2006 $50,000 Lariat 4x4 does not have it – and what little it did have has crumbled and fallen off the truck in the first 10,000 miles. What about all the holes and leaks in the firewall and around the windshield. Even the best AC/Heat systems in the world can not overcome those deficiencies. The 2007 F150’s have those problems so is there “any†solid evidence that FMC can deliver on the 2008 Super Duty? Yes the window glass is now thicker on the sides to make it quieter; but does it include the Volvo tech stuff to eliminate the heat? Something standard on a Corolla at $40,000 less? FMC charges about $1,000 for the moon roof on the Super Duty – and I think they are great; but there is absolutely NO solar heat reducing properties to the panel. All stuff that is standard from Toyota and many other companies that provide moon roofs. It only cost Ford $5 to add the heat reducing properties to that $1,000 option. FMC needs to get this stuff correct on a $50,000 truck!

 

In the press release for the 2008 Super Duties I can see FMC claims to have addressed a lot of items (about 1,000 of the 10,000 that I see); whether or not they have gotten more or less remains to be seen. The next issue is cost are they going to be competitive on cost – meaning value. Now is the time for FMC to step up to the plate – their game is almost over.

Edited November 5, 2006 by HoustonPerson

[Mark B. Morrow]

Just a few of the 10,000 items (since some have asked):

 

Even though most of these 10,000 items are global to all FMC vehicles, I will focus only on the Super Duties since this could well be the last chance Ford has to save itself (new CEO or not).

 

Rear Suspension – 100 items:

 

Ford claims in their press release that significant improvements have been made to the rear suspension (only 20 years past due). The current 2006/07 Super Duty has about 100 major short comings, and in the press release I can see about 50 items have been addressed: Much longer leaf springs, revised shock valving, all new bushings throughout, and many others; but did they get the other 50 changes that need to be made? Has correct and proper “rebound control†become a part of that change? Has the sub-standard rear shock upper cantilever bolt attachment been corrected? I do not know, I have not seen the truck.

 

I don't see anything on the order of 100 items that need to be addressed on the rear suspension. How about giving some specific examples of the things you think are superior to Ford on the competition. With 100 items you should be able to come up with 10.

 

AC/Heat system – 500 items:

 

Currently there are about 500 major short comings (compared to the competition). For all practical purposes FMC does not have an AC system on any vehicle – and has not for over 20 years. If you take the time to read all pages of the press release you can pick up on about 250 significant changes. Even one of those was mentioned on Toyota’s direct attack on Ford in regard to the Montana Coal Miners – and yet no one caught it? If you want go back to the Toyota web site it is still there! Ford promises 10 degrees lower temps on the AC system – yep it’s there in the press release. Best I can calculate that is still about 10-15 warmer than the competition. Currently Ford does not offer a “working†AC system on the 2007 F150 so it remains to be seen if one is now available for the 2008 Super Duties? But what about the other needed and required items to become competitive – like weather stripping – where is it? I know my 2006 $50,000 Lariat 4x4 does not have it – and what little it did have has crumbled and fallen off the truck in the first 10,000 miles. What about all the holes and leaks in the firewall and around the windshield. Even the best AC/Heat systems in the world can not overcome those deficiencies. The 2007 F150’s have those problems so is there “any†solid evidence that FMC can deliver on the 2008 Super Duty? Yes the window glass is now thicker on the sides to make it quieter; but does it include the Volvo tech stuff to eliminate the heat? Something standard on a Corolla at $40,000 less? FMC charges about $1,000 for the moon roof on the Super Duty – and I think they are great; but there is absolutely NO solar heat reducing properties to the panel. All stuff that is standard from Toyota and many other companies that provide moon roofs. It only cost Ford $5 to add the heat reducing properties to that $1,000 option. FMC needs to get this stuff correct on a $50,000 truck!

 

This makes absolutely no sense at all. 500 Major Shortcomings? No "working"A/C system? That comes as something of a surprise to me having owned 5 Ford trucks since 1988 all of which were equipped with very good A/C systems. Weather stripping crumbling after 10,000 miles? The weather stripping on my 2002 Explorer is still in fine shape after 5 1/2 years and 68,000 miles. The moonroof on the Explorer has solar reflecting tint from the factory. The side and rear windows are dark tinted and the windshield and front side windows are tinted as well. I haven't driven a Toyota truck but the Lexus vehicles I have driven didn't display notably better glass than my Ford.

 

In the press release for the 2008 Super Duties I can see FMC claims to have addressed a lot of items (about 1,000 of the 10,000 that I see); whether or not they have gotten more or less remains to be seen. The next issue is cost are they going to be competitive on cost – meaning value. Now is the time for FMC to step up to the plate – their game is almost over.

 

Again your claims of 100, 500 10,000 items to be addressed, seem to be made up numbers unless you can provide some specifics. I would not expect to see Super Duty sales to plummet. Quite the contrary, I would expect to see an increase with the introduction of the 2008 model.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Mark B. Morrow

[Drake]

media idiots, why do they all have it out for ford? they are giving GM a total free pass, when they in reality are worse off? wtf giveS!

 

I think most media members must have owned a Pinto or something at one time or another. Ford always gets treated worse in the media than anyone else, even when they don't deserve it. The others probably shell out bigger dollars to be loved.

 

 

Oh, yeah, the Darrell Waltrip special edition. Limited to 2000, 1999 will be returned to Toyota, as Michael Waltrip won't even buy one.

 

So true. That just about made me spit my coke out. :lol:

[bec5150]

No Ford truck has an AC system? What's that little friggin knob on my dashboard for?

[HoustonPerson]

Mr. M now is the time to save FMC.

 

Super Duty's are now beginning to arrive at dealers. Without SuperDuty there is no FMC!

 

The good news is about 5,000 out of 10,000 of the major short comings have been addressed for the 08 SuperDuty.

 

However; based on what little information I have, and working only from pictures of the new MY08 Super Duty.

 

Two serious items:

 

It appears the seats have been copied from the F150? A seat design that fully 40% of your customers find extremely uncomfortable, actually painful to sit in for any length of time. The MY05 thru MY07 SuperDuty seats only have a complaint rate of less than 1%

 

Weather Stripping design and quality: The failure rate is 100% on the MY 05-07; and it appears it has been carried over to the 08

 

This all comes back to understanding what is necessary to be competitive in the market place.

 

Several years ago when the Toyota Tundra Double Cab came out, it too had exceptionally poor seats. I complained and within 90 days Toyota did a complete redesign and corrected the seats, now they are amoung the most comfortable in the market place (actually very similar to the MY05-07 SuperDuty).

 

FMC must become responsive to what customers want in order to be competive. The way I see it a $50,000 truck without seats is not going to do it.

 

btw KTP is excellent, and the work they do is as good as Toyota.

Edited December 22, 2006 by HoustonPerson

[J-150]

Mr. M now is the time to save FMC.

 

Super Duty's are now beginning to arrive at dealers. Without SuperDuty there is no FMC!

 

The good news is about 5,000 out of 10,000 of the major short comings have been addressed for the 08 SuperDuty.

 

However; based on what little information I have, and working only from pictures of the new MY08 Super Duty.

 

Two serious items:

 

It appears the seats have been copied from the F150? A seat design that fully 40% of your customers find extremely uncomfortable, actually painful to sit in for any length of time. The MY05 thru MY07 SuperDuty seats only have a complaint rate of less than 1%

 

Weather Stripping design and quality: The failure rate is 100% on the MY 05-07; and it appears it has been carried over to the 08

 

This all comes back to understanding what is necessary to be competitive in the market place.

 

Several years ago when the Toyota Tundra Double Cab came out, it too had exceptionally poor seats. I complained and within 90 days Toyota did a complete redesign and corrected the seats, now they are amoung the most comfortable in the market place (actually very similar to the MY05-07 SuperDuty).

 

FMC must become responsive to what customers want in order to be competive. The way I see it a $50,000 truck without seats is not going to do it.

 

btw KTP is excellent, and the work they do is as good as Toyota.

 

 

 

until yopu have at in the SuprDuty seats or confirmed that they are in fact the same as the F150... shut the fuck up.

 

And yes, Toyota changed their seat design becasue of your personal complaint.

 

The fact that you are a Toyota owner pretty much sums up your believeability

 

 

You say the SuperDuty is inferior? Been on a construction site lately? A 4 year old Super Duty is superior to ANYTHING from the competition right now. Period. And sorry dude. That isn't opinion. Go ask ANY fleet manager for any construction company, oil company or road crew. I really dont give a flying fuck if you think the suspension is inadequate. The rear suspension will still outperform and outlast ANYTHING from the competition.

 

Like I said... go ask the people that use them. Not fucking Edmunds or JD Dipshit

Edited December 22, 2006 by J-150

[WC-MAN]

Here's 2006's top ten:

 

Forbes best selling vehicles include:

 

 

*Ford F-Series pickup

*Chevrolet Silverado pickup

*Toyota Camry convertible, coupe and sedan

*Toyota Corolla sedan

*Honda Accord coupe and sedan

*Dodge Ram pickup

*Honda Civic coupe and sedan

*Chevrolet Impala sedan

*Chevrolet Cobalt coupe and sedan

*Nissan Altima sedan

 

Where's the Ford car???

 

I remind you the Taurus was the best selling car in the world until Ford literally announced that SUV's were the new sedan. This smacked of the 50's and 60's when automakers literally told people what they wanted. The Japanese were smart enough to see the SUV thing for what it was, the latest automotive craze that would burn white hot for a while then peter out. They participated to be sure, you'd be a fool not to, but they kept their sedans up to date and literly cornered the family sedan market.

 

I honestly do not know if Ford can EVER recover the car market to the level they once had (5 of the top 10 selling vehicles!), I just don't see another Taurus in the current scheme. The Fusion is nice, and I LOVE the new Mercs, but they are going to have to build stellar cars for several years if they hope to regain customer trust, and the current management doesn't appear to have the patience for that. Toyota and Honda have one advantage, their management is concerned with more than next quater's earnings.

 

The F-150 is an adequate truck, but not revolutionary. And it does need powertrain upgrades.

[JW]

However; based on what little information I have

 

Obviously...

[ebritt]

Those 10,000 defects....that's the dollars they spent on his salary before the figured out he was a retard and fired him.

 

He sure sounds like a disgruntled ex employee to me.

[F250]

And the question of - 10,000 major deficiencies in product: You need only look at the Toyota Tundra web site, which has been “public†for over one year now, directly targets “one major†major item missing on every FMC vehicle. And if a FMC employee here on Blue Oval says it not true, then they are saying so strictly on a basis of denial. I have driven dozens of F150 and SuperDuty’s all over Texas and you guys are missing the mark in a big way.

 

Bingo! This paragraph explains everything.

 

This person works for Toyota Motor Company and is VERY afraid the new Tundra will fall on it's ass (again). The reason for the specific attack on the Super Duty is because it will launch at about the same time as the new Tundra.

 

I hope Toyota paved a lot of area around your new Texas Tundra plant to park all of those unsold Jap trucklets!

Edited December 24, 2006 by F250

[DearbornDerek]

Bingo! This paragraph explains everything.

 

This person works for Toyota Motor Company and is VERY afraid the new Tundra will fall on it's ass (again). The reason for the specific attack on the Super Duty is because it will launch at about the same time as the new Tundra.

 

I hope Toyota paved a lot of area around your new Texas Tundra plant to park all of those unsold Jap trucklets!

 

Yeah, some people want to dog the F-150 yet the ALL new tundra will be on "par" with the 3 year old design of the F-150. No one wants to talk about the fact that the 09MY 150 will set the bar higher (again) and will be the first to market with a diesel 1/2 ton

[fllcobra]

Ford cannot rest is laurels on the Fusion, Mustang or Edge. The pictures have been out for so long that they are already starting to look dated. And the import makers have caught up and have already put out better looking CUV's while Ford tinkered to get the bugs out of the Edge.

 

Fortunately, Ford has Mazda. And Mazda has the answer to the onslaught of import CUV's with the CX-7 and supercool CX-9. Ford would be wise to snag the designer for the Mazda CX-9 to work on the next generation Explorer. The interior of this vehicle is gorgous and its design theme should have been integrated into the Edge.

 

Ford sales have dropped the automaker into 4th place in 11/06. Considering the next launch is a barely warmed over Five Hundred and Escape and this carmaker is in real trouble... again. Time will tell as to whether people respond to the conservative look of the 2008 Escape. I can only hope that Five Hundred's cheap looking interior has been changed significantly. Compared to the Avelon, there is no comparison or reason to consider the purchase of the Five Hundred.

 

Fortunately, the PAG division (minus Jaguar), Volvo, and Mazda are poised to kick ass in 2007. Ford will need the help as it ponders it next "bold" move.

[ebritt]

Bingo! This paragraph explains everything.

 

This person works for Toyota Motor Company and is VERY afraid the new Tundra will fall on it's ass (again). The reason for the specific attack on the Super Duty is because it will launch at about the same time as the new Tundra.

 

I hope Toyota paved a lot of area around your new Texas Tundra plant to park all of those unsold Jap trucklets!

He said he drove dozens of F-150's and Superduty's all over Texas........that just sounds fishy to me.

[8A4RE]

After reading these posts i have to say this guy is right about one thing, Ford needs to listen period, calling the guy names doesn't sell cars or trucks, If this guy worked for toyota and wanted to mess with the superduty launch he sure as hell wouldn't be here giving his 2 cents, sure the A/C is fine on my fords but i don't live in the deep south were its always hot, I have heard people down south complain about Ford A/C many times, I had an 05 F-150 and found it to be a heavy pig with shit brakes so i traded it for a ranger,

 

A long time ago a company named toyota learned that it could copy ford and do things better, if we don't learn from toyota there won't be enough time to copy them back, better dealers, the right product that people want to buy, a company that stands behind its product, toyota is growing big time and seems to have lost its grip on quality so it may seem, we can learn from it and bounce back or stick our heads in the sand and keep pretending everything is going to be alright,

[WC-MAN]

No 8A4RE, your not listening, everything from Ford is perfect and the only reason they don't sell is people are too dumb to buy them. This attitude is, of course, what got Ford where it is today.

 

The F 150 is the last man standing out of 5 Fords that have lived on their reputations. Ranger, Taurus, Explorer, Escort, and f 150. Ranger is basically the same truck driving around 15 years ago, the Escort and Taurus were both abandoned to fester until the were dropped, Explorer was part of a fad Ford execs honestly believed would replace the most popular form of vehicle for most of the last 60 years, and what is the attitude of the F-150? Its great and the japanese will never beat it! They beat Taurus, Escort, Ranger, and Explorer, but they will NEVER beat the F 150! Meanwhile, the engineers at Toyota continue to inch ever closer to the solution.