Bill Ford has reached defining moment

[Blue Oval Staff]

click here for the article

[kevinb120]

the 4074th meaningless article this year about Ford's state of being. :blah:

[DCK]

the 4074th meaningless article this year about Ford's state of being. :blah:

Yeah some of the articles may be repeating themselves but they are all true, Ford still has not proven that the company will make a turn around. They have very few product launching in the next 3 years(well, good product atleast) Ford yet to show any real bright spot in their future because they still have old style management who have 0 balls and are on the fence about every damn descision so Ford accomplishes next to nothing. Seriously everything is a god damn "maybe" or "we are looking into it" or "its a possibility"

[retro-man]

Good article. God speed Bill Ford Jr.

[silvrsvt]

Yeah some of the articles may be repeating themselves but they are all true, Ford still has not proven that the company will make a turn around. They have very few product launching in the next 3 years(well, good product atleast) Ford yet to show any real bright spot in their future because they still have old style management who have 0 balls and are on the fence about every damn descision so Ford accomplishes next to nothing. Seriously everything is a god damn "maybe" or "we are looking into it" or "its a possibility"

 

 

Uh Ford just did a major revision back in January? Guess you want results in 6 months or less huh? Like it or not we have no idea what Ford will be offering after January 2008, which is only a year and half away...and the quickest Ford can get new product out if it started today is 24 months or so....

 

Its always conventant to find the bad then it is to find the good

[igor]

^^^Arguing with DCK and Sixcav on their main arguments is useless - they never listen - they just repeat their own misconceptions over and over and over again//

 

 

PS: for those that are too dull to notice, this areticle wasa actually VERY positive - the author clearly sees the challenge in turning around Ford and see the context, and simply says that Wall Street will likely not be happy, npo matter what. HE leaves his judgement open on Bill Ford, as he said he RIGHT NOW IS REACHING THE DEFNING MOMENT. I would very much agree with that - Ford and Fields will not be judged on anything other than what will happen from today to January/summer 2008.

 

Igor

[ZanatWork]

Yeah some of the articles may be repeating themselves but they are all true, Ford still has not proven that the company will make a turn around. They have very few product launching in the next 3 years(well, good product atleast) Ford yet to show any real bright spot in their future because they still have old style management who have 0 balls and are on the fence about every damn descision so Ford accomplishes next to nothing. Seriously everything is a god damn "maybe" or "we are looking into it" or "its a possibility"

 

 

DCK...you don't get any smarter here than on AW's board, do ya?

 

The comment about "old style management" has to be a world-clas "DUHR" moment, as the management shuffled earlier this year (maybe you somehow missed that) and it takes YEARS for most vehicles to go from clean sheet to production.

 

As for "very few good product", are you out of your mind?

 

Edge

MKX

"Hurricane" V8s

Turbocharged cars in development

MKS

new Super Duty

2009 F-150

MKZ

awd Fusion/Milan

Mustang updates

Freshened Freestyle

The "Fairlane"

Freshened Five Hundred

Freshened Montego

Freshened Escape

Freshened Focus

Updated Econoline

and more we don't know about.

Edited September 1, 2006 by ZanatWork

[Savetheplanet]

Ford products = gass guzzlers

[xr7g428]

Ford products = gass guzzlers

 

Well, at least they stand for something. LOL!

 

Now what is gass?

 

Seriously, which Honda can pull a 10,000 lb trailer?

 

And what part of the article led you to this statement?

Edited September 1, 2006 by xr7g428

[Footballfan]

the 4074th meaningless article this year about Ford's state of being. :blah:

 

And the millionth useless one from Daniel Howes :rolleyes:

 

DCK...you don't get any smarter here than on AW's board, do ya?

 

The comment about "old style management" has to be a world-clas "DUHR" moment, as the management shuffled earlier this year (maybe you somehow missed that) and it takes YEARS for most vehicles to go from clean sheet to production.

 

As for "very few good product", are you out of your mind?

 

Edge

MKX

"Hurricane" V8s

Turbocharged cars in development

MKS

new Super Duty

2009 F-150

MKZ

awd Fusion/Milan

Mustang updates

Freshened Freestar

Freshened Five Hundred

Freshened Montego

Freshened Escape

Freshened Focus

Updated Econoline

and more we don't know about.

 

Minus the Mustang and F-150 (for now), none of these vehichles will be leaders in their respective segments.

[ZanatWork]

I just saw that I put "Freestar"...that was supposed to be Freestyle. I'll fix it.

 

As far as "segment leaders"...in what way? Sales? Profit is far more important, but I think you'll find Ford isn't trailing as much as you and others think.

 

Vehicles like the Escape/Milan are leading their segment, sales-wise.

 

The Edge may lead its segment...Ford has a better history in SUV-type vehicles than anyone I'm aware of.

 

The Focus and Fusion likely won't be built in large enough quantity to challenge the Camry or Corolla...but if they make money on each one sold, profit is more important than outright sales. At this point, the CD3 cars are essentially selling at the capacity they're built...that's a good thing.

 

 

GM proved for a long time that moving the most metal, rubber, and plastic doesn't mean that they made the best stuff. If Ford is selling more than enough vehicles to be healthily profitable, who cares whether Toyota tries to be #2 or #1?

[SysEng]

As for "very few good product", are you out of your mind?

 

Edge

MKX

"Hurricane" V8s

Turbocharged cars in development

MKS

new Super Duty

2009 F-150

MKZ

awd Fusion/Milan

Mustang updates

Freshened Freestar

Freshened Five Hundred

Freshened Montego

Freshened Escape

Freshened Focus

Updated Econoline

and more we don't know about.

 

No, I'd say he has it about right. I see the F-series, the SuperDuty, the Econoline, potentially the Mustang and the "hurricane. Ok we need to see about the "hurricane". The rest you can scrap as far as I'm concerned. :shrug:

 

Sorry to say, but if I need anything with a V6 or I4, Toyota, Honda and even GMC would come to mind before anything Ford is talking about. :slap:

[ZanatWork]

Spiffy. As this is coming from the "Panther Mafia", I'll take it with a salt lick if it's all the same.

Edited September 1, 2006 by ZanatWork

[dr511scj]

click here for the article

 

I saw this commentary on the "Defining Moment" article linked on Google Finance's page on "F"

 

http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2006/09/is-...ay-ford-jr.html

 

Interesting reading, IMO.

[ZanatWork]

An interesting read...but a puzzling one, and with some glaring holes in its logic.

 

A couple of examples:

 

1. If the CD3 cars were so woefully "uncompetitive", I doubt they'd be selling essentially at the same rate they're produced. It doesn't take a math whiz to figure out that over 20,000 units per month is going to use up the facility's 250,000/year output. Does it outsell the Camry? No. Are they sitting around unsold? No again.

 

2. I'll agree with the D3's power issue, but the simple truth is that the 3.5 motor wasn't close to ready, and Ford couldn't just watch the sedan market totally abandon them any longer. It was a difficult choice, but the car's dependability and numerous qualities will likely end up making it plenty of friends...and it gets much-needed help in just a few months.

 

3. The Mustang criticisms are ignorant to the point of hilarity. Not "covering the market"? It's essentially alone in its market, sold well enough to add a shift for the '05 year, and just now had one of its hottest selling months! With easily-added models like the Shelby GT and strongly rumored upcoming BOSS/MAch models...it seems Ford is giving its captive market plenty of little flavors to choose from until the car's major rework...just in time for the Camaro/Challenger.

 

 

I've defended Bill, and I've snarled about him. I'd have to say that he's done a predictable job: tried to fix the obvious problems and erred on the side of caution-repeatedly. The fact that the Hurricane and turbo programs are underway and that several vehciels are about to get much-needed attention leads me to believe that he'll look smarter to the "analysts" in 2008 than he does right now.

[Nels Nelson]

I saw this commentary on the "Defining Moment" article linked on Google Finance's page on "F"

 

http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2006/09/is-...ay-ford-jr.html

 

Interesting reading, IMO.

 

Interesting indeed and I agree for the most part.

 

The CD3 cars may be selling well but the D3s are not. The D3s are selling at half of plant capacity and their sales are probably being stolen by the CD3s. Wasn't it Ford's strategy that these two products would replace the Taurus. At this point it would appear this strategy has been a failure.

 

As for the Mustang, I find it ironic that some on this forum criticize those of us who feel that current Ford management lacks an appreciation for the company's history and heritage, particularly where Lincoln is concerned. But currently Ford's most successful car is its most "retro" car with a great heritage and displays the greatest appreciation for it.

[silvrsvt]

Interesting indeed and I agree for the most part.

 

The CD3 cars may be selling well but the D3s are not. The D3s are selling at half of plant capacity and their sales are probably being stolen by the CD3s. Wasn't it Ford's strategy that these two products would replace the Taurus. At this point it would appear this strategy has been a failure.

 

 

I think that's all the more reason to keep the 3.5 out of the Fusion and Milan in the plebeian models and make it Standard on the D3 cars. The D3's where totally blindsided by the 300C (stealing all their launch thunder) and then ignored by Ford. Lets see if Ford can reverse this when they relaunch next Year.

[RichardJensen]

I laughed at the use of the words 'weak engine internals' to describe the only 300hp car in the universe that can be had for less than $25k. Then I stopped reading. I have better ways to squander my free time.

 

Yeah. But it could've been better :rolleyes: .... "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing"

Edited September 2, 2006 by RichardJensen

[cip]

As a 28 year Ford veteran, I very much dislike the way the Company is receiving so much bad press. It's always easy to kick someone when it's down but, to a certain extent, Ford deserves it. I hate to say it because I'm a big Ford fan and own nothing but and have owned nothing but Company products since 1966 when I started driving. We have been in a downturn too many times. You know, when this ocurrs, Ford executives always "realize" that is a lack of product. My question is WHEN are they going to learn A. it's always about product B. product always has to be arriving. We go half-way all the time. Did you ever want to make love to your wife (sorry I'm a conservative guy) and only go half-way? I offer these as my proof:

 

Ranger - didn't we have 2 plants at full speed? instead of updating the vehicle, we just use new grilles, etc....what's the outcome.....less sales

 

LS - we enter this nice piece in a crowded market with just a 4 door sedan...hello? BMW/Benz/Caddy all have 2 doors/convertibles...then we pull a Ranger and do almost nothing to update it

 

Town Car- it's a shame what we have allowed to happen to the luxury market and our NEW sedan won't have a V8!!!??? People who buy luxury cars are not too interested in fuel economy.

 

Focus - same thing - it took us 2 years to get it right and we haven't changed the thing on the outside

 

Expedition/Navigator - We don't have to reinvent the wheel with a lot of costly engineering changes/updates but PLEASE change the sheetmetal! The new ones look too much like the old ones especialy from the side. I think it's cheaper to bend the sheetmetal than to re-engineer the frame and other components

 

Explorer - same thing - 2006 is the nicest Explorer ever but how different does it look from the 05/02??

 

If we want to increase fuel economy, and we should as a competitive advantage, then our products need to loose some weight ie. the F-series

 

Bill Ford's got my support and my prayers...he's in a tough spot (and I hope I'm not going to loose my job!)

 

We need to bring the unions into reality. For far too long we have just caved in and someone should have seen this trainwreck comming. As a salaried guy, I've given back bennies over the years and the unions, as far as I know, haven't been touched. Well, it's time to contribute. I don't want anything back, just be fair and have equity between the salaried guys and the unions in thjis regard. When I toured the Rouge this Summer, I didn't see too many guys hustling.

 

We need to commonize our parts and get those economies in places where the customer's cant see.

 

Oh one more thing. If Ford is loosing sales and "face" because of it's support of the gay adgenda, we should stop wasting our money. I'm sure you checked-out the article a couple of weeks ago that indicated gays are NOT shopping for Fords! So screw 'em...let's spend our money where we can get it back!

 

Thanks for listening

[bb62]

I laughed at the use of the words 'weak engine internals' to describe the only 300hp car in the universe that can be had for less than $25k. Then I stopped reading. I have better ways to squander my free time.

 

Yeah. But it could've been better :rolleyes: .... "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing"

 

But as competition for this market ups the ante to 400HP (like the defunct GTO - a terrible product not for its HP but for its style) then Ford will have nothing waiting in the wings.

[RichardJensen]

But as competition for this market ups the ante to 400HP (like the defunct GTO - a terrible product not for its HP but for its style) then Ford will have nothing waiting in the wings.

The Mustang's bonafide HP credentials stick in the craw of people that like to say Ford is 'always' the worst when it comes to hp, etc.

 

So we get, predictably, a reference to the steeply discounted titanic failure that was the Pontiac GTO, a vehicle no longer for sale in these United States.

 

Far be it from anyone to admit that the Mustang is about as close to an unalloyed hit as you are going to get, far be it from these negative nancys to admit that the power delivery on the Mod starts at one grand, and doesn't stop for 3000 RPM, flat as Kansas the whole way.

 

No, the Mustang--quite obviously--is not the equal of a vehicle which sold, during the entire 2005 model run, about as many units as Ford sold in 744 hours this August.

[Footballfan]

Interesting indeed and I agree for the most part.

 

The CD3 cars may be selling well but the D3s are not. The D3s are selling at half of plant capacity and their sales are probably being stolen by the CD3s. Wasn't it Ford's strategy that these two products would replace the Taurus. At this point it would appear this strategy has been a failure.

 

As for the Mustang, I find it ironic that some on this forum criticize those of us who feel that current Ford management lacks an appreciation for the company's history and heritage, particularly where Lincoln is concerned. But currently Ford's most successful car is its most "retro" car with a great heritage and displays the greatest appreciation for it.

 

The Freefall, sorry the Freestyle and 500 are abysmal jokes. Short of blowing up the two cars, Ford should drop them for a year, put an all new sleek, distinctive body on them (Distinct bodies for both of them should ford decide to keep Ford and Mercury) and relaunch them as the Taurus and Sable. Imagine the marketing leverage that they could get from that- a relaunch of one of Ford's most popular cars. People know and love the Taurus. Ford failed in the sense that it tried to launch an all-new car that was number one, exciting as an old Checker cab, and two launching it with a name that many in the market were not familiar with. A new name for an old-looking car is what is dooming the 500. The Freestyle needs to be dropped when the Fairlane crossovers come on line.

[RichardJensen]

People know and love the Taurus.

Well, half that sentence is true.

 

When Ford loyalists like us won't even buy the thing new...........................

 

BTW, I'm sure you recall that D3 numbers exceeded Taurus/Sable volume last July and August. Theres an ever so slight chance that comparisons are....um...distorted? At the end of June D3 volume was equal to what it was last year. It will end the year down, I am sure, but not down by as much as it is down currently. A 5-10% drop off is about what I'd expect.

[Footballfan]

Well, half that sentence is true.

 

When Ford loyalists like us won't even buy the thing new...........................

 

BTW, I'm sure you recall that D3 numbers exceeded Taurus/Sable volume last July and August. Theres an ever so slight chance that comparisons are....um...distorted? At the end of June D3 volume was equal to what it was last year. It will end the year down, I am sure, but not down by as much as it is down currently. A 5-10% drop off is about what I'd expect.

 

Perhaps your comparisons are distorted. 500, Freestyle, and Montego sales are down 18, 13, and 12 percent respectively for the year- quite alarming for less-than-two-year-old vehichles. Meanwhile the Taurus- the same Taurus that Ford ignored for the past 12 years- is outselling the 500 by a two to one margin. That should tell you something even if many of the sales are going to fleet buyers.

[J-150]

The Mustang's bonafide HP credentials stick in the craw of people that like to say Ford is 'always' the worst when it comes to hp, etc.

 

So we get, predictably, a reference to the steeply discounted titanic failure that was the Pontiac GTO, a vehicle no longer for sale in these United States.

 

Far be it from anyone to admit that the Mustang is about as close to an unalloyed hit as you are going to get, far be it from these negative nancys to admit that the power delivery on the Mod starts at one grand, and doesn't stop for 3000 RPM, flat as Kansas the whole way.

 

No, the Mustang--quite obviously--is not the equal of a vehicle which sold, during the entire 2005 model run, about as many units as Ford sold in 744 hours this August.

 

 

 

if Ford treated every vehicle with the importance they gave the Mustang, they would be the #1 car maker out there (like they almost were in the 90s)

 

 

 

THAT is the frustrating part. We know they can do it. But they wont.