New Spy Pics of Five Hundred

[DCK]

The current Camry isn't "nicely styled", it looks like a mutated MAzda 6 inflated to 5000 psi.

Well, it is certainly opinionated, but the camry is definately a lot sharper and not dull anymore. I'll agree that they copied the Mazda 6 front and BMW rear, But i think it comes together nicely. But at any point it isn't dull anymore.

[ZanatWork]

Too that, I have to agree. And you and I don't agree on much.

 

All kidding aside, I thnk we tend to agree on most things except the CD3 and the UAW.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Speaking of the Edsel...

 

I want the Thunderbird to come back...

 

 

 

Beautiful work Watchdevil. I love the T-bird and I even like the Edsel 500.

[goingincirclez]

I want the Thunderbird to come back...

 

 

Now THAT is a car I would sell my first-born to own! (OK I wouldn't really sell my little girl, but you get my point). Beautiful, tough, refined, and not a caricature like the last "retro" bird.

 

Have you tried to make a "Cougar" with the old 80's-style inverted, up-swept quarter window?

[Roadrunner]

I ageee -- that Thunderbird looks much, much better than the fakey 1950s T-Bird (it just needed more chrome)

[Mark B. Morrow]

The T-Bird makes Chevy's Monte Carlo look like a joke. I would bet that Bird would fly in Nascar. A Cougar variant wouldn't be hard to conceive either. The Tail lights would have to be sequential of course.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Mark B. Morrow

[dave5150]

Speaking of the Edsel...

 

I want the Thunderbird to come back...

 

Send that to the glass house. A pic of the T-Bird that is.

[Imawhosure]

I ageee -- that Thunderbird looks much, much better than the fakey 1950s T-Bird (it just needed more chrome)

 

 

I can't believe it will be very long before Ford pulls its major halo marquee nameplate back into production.

 

Just the name will sell 80,000 a year if it is affordable.

[Guest Sixcav]

Just the name will sell 80,000 a year if it is affordable.

 

And there in lies the key. A new Thunderbird might attract a lot of attention sure enough. But if they show up at the lots with 28, 29 and 30K price tags I don't think they'll sell. Given Fords recent price tag history this is entirely possible with the exception of the Fusion of course.

[Watchdevil]

Now THAT is a car I would sell my first-born to own! (OK I wouldn't really sell my little girl, but you get my point). Beautiful, tough, refined, and not a caricature like the last "retro" bird.

 

Have you tried to make a "Cougar" with the old 80's-style inverted, up-swept quarter window?

 

If I was much better at my photochop skills I would do the Cougar... I have gotten rusty and have not had a lot of time lately to create anything new...

 

Anyway, I kinda like what I did with the Tbird... The basic look was already there... In it I see a good combination of classic 70's style Birds but also an edgier version of the 83-88 style... Those Birds of yesteryear were great sellers... I miss them and I certainly miss my old cars like my 1978 LTD II 2door hardtop as well as my 85 and 89 Tbirds...

 

I can't believe it will be very long before Ford pulls its major halo marquee nameplate back into production.

 

Just the name will sell 80,000 a year if it is affordable.

 

Thunderbird majorly increased sales before... It did it in 1958 going to four seats... It did it in 1977 when it downsized to the LTDII body and was a couple thousand less... It did it again in 1983 bringing in the aero look... Time for istory to repeat itself.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Watchdevil

[SysEng]

I ageee -- that Thunderbird looks much, much better than the fakey 1950s T-Bird (it just needed more chrome)

 

 

OK! So is anybody actually suggesting that that be done on D3 :rolleyes: ?

 

Funny how the topic migrated away from that loser.

Edited September 9, 2006 by SysEng

[Watchdevil]

OK! So is anybody actually suggesting that that be done on D3 :rolleyes: ?

 

Funny how the topic migrated away from that loser.

 

Thats an absolute no... it would suffer the stigma whether it had AWD or not... There is no excuse for Ford to not develop a longer wheelbase RWD platform that can provide a respectible RWD sedan and coupe... Look at how the new Lincoln MKS is already a joke... It looks like an Acura mated with a Hyundai and noting about it says Lincoln.. plus no V8 or RWD... No one asked for that car... I am fine with the Zephyr the way it is but Lincoln needs something a notch up in tradition as well.... Damn Ford for missing the boat on the 427 Concept and not beating Chrysler to the game... Because that concept could have provided a range of Fords, Mercurys and Lincolns that could be on a shared platform with distinct identities... We do not need another import poser... When will Ford get the message... Since the mid 70's we went from the Mercedes styled Granada to the Fairmont Volvo, to the Audi Taurus, then to the BMW/Missubishi Lincoln LS, to the Passat 500, and now the MKS Acura/Altima/Hyundai... When will Ford get it?

[goingincirclez]

A new Thunderbird might attract a lot of attention sure enough. But if they show up at the lots with 28, 29 and 30K price tags I don't think they'll sell.

The window sticker on my '88 "almost a fully-loaded LX" dealer-demo 3.8 prcied out at $18K... and that was almost 20 years ago, not quite fully loaded. So I think 30K would be an expected and reasonable price point for a new T-Bird with proper panache... and still be less than the joke they tried to pass off as the last one.

 

Hey, low prices are good but there has to be a sense of aspirational mystique on some things, you know? Maybe a new nameplate like "Edge" hasn't earned the cred yet, but surely a T-Bird should be a step up.

 

Of course it's all a moot point; that car looks too damn nice for Ford to build it.

 

OK! So is anybody actually suggesting that that be done on D3 :rolleyes: ?

 

Funny how the topic migrated away from that loser.

Hey, if it's good enough to hijack a 9-page thread, imagine how it might hijack perceptions of Ford IRL if they built it... :blink:

 

As for building it on the D3 - not much point in speculating since it will never happen, but the D3s are out. Too big, not RWD, and IIRC there is no Ford V8 that can fit. Assuming that Ford is out of the unique platforms game, there might be a case made for sharing the Mustang platform. The 'Bird was very successful when it shared the Fox platform way back when... and sharing the platform would keep AAI running and eek less of a development cost. The biggest thing they should do this time, is NOT slap a detuned V8 in there like they always did. Make it the same motor as the base Stang GT. The Tbird should be all about having power when you want it, but keeping a lower profile than the boy-racers out there, as you enjoy refinement that's out of place in the Mustang.

 

In it I see a good combination of classic 70's style Birds but also an edgier version of the 83-88 style...

That's exactly what I saw... and a little boxy/slab-sided like the '60's Conti's, which isn't a bad way to go. I recognized that '87-88 quarter window. The taillights are sharp but almost a little too "Mustangy"... yet they remind me of the '87 restyle again. You did a nice job of making it modern but with subtle heritage cues. The fender vents and script emblem are a nice touch. IMO. :beerchug:

 

Since the mid 70's we went from the Mercedes styled Granada...

Hey! I miss our old Granada. Even if it ripped off Mercedes, they sold very well in their day and looked good doing so (until the Fox version - ugh). Too bad their asses all started sagging after 3 years, and all you see nowadays are rusted-out base 4-doors. The 2-doors were classy. Hell, for what was basically a dressed-up economy car, the Granada could be had with a lot more personality than anything they make today :shrug: (Mustang excepted, of course).

Edited September 10, 2006 by goingincirclez

[Watchdevil]

Hey, low prices are good but there has to be a sense of aspirational mystique on some things, you know? Maybe a new nameplate like "Edge" hasn't earned the cred yet, but surely a T-Bird should be a step up.

 

That was the magic of the 1977 Tbird... It was styled to look better and more expensive than the one the 76 that it replaced but it was $2000 or so less. People were able to afford it yet it retained the Tbird mystique...

 

Of course it's all a moot point; that car looks too damn nice for Ford to build it.

Hey, if it's good enough to hijack a 9-page thread, imagine how it might hijack perceptions of Ford IRL if they built it... :blink:

Persistant long threads helped keep the Mustang alive and it certainly brought back the Camaro... I hope someone at Ford is listening...

 

As for building it on the D3 - not much point in speculating since it will never happen, but the D3s are out. Too big, not RWD, and IIRC there is no Ford V8 that can fit. Assuming that Ford is out of the unique platforms game, there might be a case made for sharing the Mustang platform. The 'Bird was very successful when it shared the Fox platform way back when... and sharing the platform would keep AAI running and eek less of a development cost.

 

Again, Ford's short sightedness developing a RWD platform that cannot be expanded and utilized for changing consumer desires... Everything went to hell after the Tbird went to the MN12 then abandoned it for the LS platform... And now Ford developed the DC2 platform with no intentions of expanding it...

 

That's exactly what I saw... and a little boxy/slab-sided like the '60's Conti's, which isn't a bad way to go. I recognized that '87-88 quarter window.

I remember the history of the Tbird where the one design proposal for it actually became the 60's Continental while the bullet bird was chosen for a more sleeker less formal design. Then Lincoln returned the favor in the 80's by lending the aero look of the Mark concept to the 1983 Thunderbird.

 

The taillights are sharp but almost a little too "Mustangy"... yet they remind me of the '87 restyle again. You did a nice job of making it modern but with subtle heritage cues. The fender vents and script emblem are a nice touch. IMO. :beerchug:

 

My idea of the taillamps was to bring back either dual pod or the dropped center full-width lamps back into style. They are my favorite taillamp design. Since the 427 Concept had lamps that were lit in the photographs it looks more like triple sections when lit up, but it was my intention that they have a non-sectioned smoother outer lens while inside they were sectioned off to allow the traditional sequential effect. Certainly, the actual design could be refined for proper shape and contours appropriate for a Tbird.

 

As far as the front end styling I am still out to lunch on that one. I did up a front end with a full width narrow slit of a grille opening, hidden headlamps and a beak-like multi-bar grille recessed back in the horizontal opening but it was criticized for being too late 60's.

 

 

Use your imagination on the lower intake. I removed my original detail to give it less vertical height and to keep the front looking low and horizontal. My main concern is to have the full-width grille a lower profile horizontal slit recessed in the opening.

 

 

Hey! I miss our old Granada. Even if it ripped off Mercedes, they sold very well in their day and looked good doing so (until the Fox version - ugh). Too bad their asses all started sagging after 3 years, and all you see nowadays are rusted-out base 4-doors. The 2-doors were classy. Hell, for what was basically a dressed-up economy car, the Granada could be had with a lot more personality than anything they make today :shrug: (Mustang excepted, of course).

 

Recently I was reading a history book that the Maverick was intended to be a replacement for the Mustang possibly even carrying the Mustang name. In fact it was the platform sucessor of the original and when the Mustang II came into the picture it pretty much was the original Mustang underneath so that was a close as you could get to the original Mustang in spirit but not style. Then the Granada came along in 75 based on the Maverick which was intended to be discontinued but lingered a couple years longer. The Granada survived with the Falcon platform until the end of 1980. I did have a soft spot at one time for the Granada two-door wth the sports package. At the time I liked the black ones with the gold pinstripes, chamois colored interior with bucket seats, floor shift and console, and of course the 302 V8.

 

When the Fairmont Futura came out I loved that as well, looking like a mini-Tbird. It in fact was designed to actually be a Tbird but Ford felt that consumers would not accept one that small and downsized at that exact time, and the 1977 Tbird had just been downsized and converted to the Torino platform. Unfortunately, 1980 brought the aternatively styled and awkward Fox-based Box Bird which just didn't work. So Ford took the initiative to take a risk and bring us the Aero-bird for 1983 and it worked...

 

My idea of the 427 Concept based Tbird is to make it a modern evolution of the Tbird from the point where everything seemed to me to go wrong, much like how the new Mustang resolves the same issue for itself.

Edited September 10, 2006 by Watchdevil

[silvrsvt]

Just to solve everything, call the RWD replacement for the CV a T-bird...they can sell pently of them at a 28-38K price point.

Edited September 10, 2006 by silvrsvt

[Guest Sixcav]

Just to solve everything, call the RWD replacement for the CD a T-bird...they can sell pently of them at a 28-38K price point.

 

 

Yep they'll be knocking down the doors for those. . . . . . . At the Honda dealer.

[silvrsvt]

 

Yep they'll be knocking down the doors for those. . . . . . . At the Honda dealer.

 

 

Since when does Honda do a large sedan with a V8? :rolleyes:

[Guest Sixcav]

People aren't going to pay 30 grand for a damn Ford sedan. When are you guys going to get that through your heads? I don't care if it does have a V8 and neither will the vast majority of the buying public. In case you haven't noticed gas is expensive now. At that price range they'll go look at something else other than Ford. And 38 grand? You're out of your mind. If people have 38 grand to put down on a new sedan Ford will not be on their list. They'll go look at Lincoln, or BMW, Volvo, Acura, Cadillac, or what have you that's also in that price range. Ford is not percieved by the masses to be worth that kind of money. Perhaps justifiably so. Ford has an upscale division in Lincoln if you want to spend 30 to 38 grand on a car.

[retro-man]

... and still be less than the joke they tried to pass off as the last one.

I like the photoshops of a 427-based T-Bird, but - after all the shitting on the retro T-Bird here, I would like to inject a little perspective:

 

- "It's gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous." ~Georg Kacher - Automobile Magazine 1999

- "It got a standing ovation when it it came down the ramp at Detroit's Cobo Center ..... and the buzz hasn't stopped since." ~Car and Driver October 2000

- "It is the first Thunderbird in a while to deserve its name." ~Car and Driver, July 2001

- "Before Bert had set the parking brake, people swarmed the T-Bird. So many came over, in fact, that he couldn't get out of the car. As for Richard, well, hardly anybody noticed the Ferrari, so he was able to fetch a bearclaw and a coffee for Bert, still busy answering questions." ~ Road and Track, August 2001

- "It has so much style that a simple drive becomes an event, a celebration, a parade. .... the Thunderbird gets away with its approach because it has such style. Every gesture it makes is delicious ...." ~Automobile Magazine, July 2001

- "Nice job Ford - it's good to welcome back a legend." ~Motor Trend, July 2001

 

To which I would add:

- "Ohmygodlookatthatcar!" ~ a chick standing at the crosswalk with her friend near my building, sometime in 2002

- "Now that's a car!" ~ Host's brother, at a party I went to just today. (Several people went outside to "check out the Thunderbird" - this is a 5 year old car with 81,000 miles on it.)

 

And a thousand times in between - almost daily for the 4 years I've owned the car. You'll think I'm bullshitting unless you've had the experience. I have never owned, or known anybody who owned, a car that elicited so many compliments. One of my Japanese clients has made a point of featuring my car in photos of me on their website, and videos for customer presentations (as an example of "classic American style".) Do you suppose a '77 T-Bird - no matter how immaculate - would have elicited the same reaction? They love the car.

 

I have in my possession the following:

- 7 magazines with it on the cover

- A video of The History Channel's "Ultimate Automobiles" series, with an entire episode dedicated to "The New Thunderbird".

 

Let me see you duplicate that with any 70s, 80s, or 90s T-Bird.

 

Now, as for why the car was a commercial disappointment: I guess I pin it on a combination of 4 factors:

1.) Botched launch.

2.) Dealer gouging.

3.) Lack of any performance options.

4.) It is just too strong a brew for most people: they can admire it (and believe me, they do. Constantly.), but they can't see themselves in it. People who are comfortable seeing themselves as "fabulous" enough for a fabulous car, probably got that way over time, by being very successful. Those people are more likely to go ahead and buy a Jag or an Aston Martin (2 cars with which the T-Bird shared the stage in the James Bond movie "Die Another Day" incidentally). Oh, there are some "fabulous" people who bought the Thunderbird: Early buyers included Oprah Winfrey, Katie Couric, John Travolta, and Stormin' Norman Schwartzkopf. J Mays and Jac Nasser each had one built for themselves with a 390hp supercharged engine, and 6-speed BMW transmission (now, if they had offered these as options to the buying public......).

 

Here is a good article in Wikipedia that reinforces some of these points: link

Available only as a convertible with a removable hardtop and, according to automotive writer Jerry Flint, the new Thunderbird "turned heads wherever it went."

Ford expected sales of 25,000 units per year, but were never that high. Jerry Flint, writing for Forbes magazine on the demise of the newest Thunderbird, summed it all up by writing, "Ford dealers have been successful selling 35,000-45,000 USD trucks but have little experience selling automobiles in the near-luxury price range. If there was a marketing effort by Ford Motor, I wasn't aware of it. Naturally, sales didn't meet expectations."

 

It cracks me up to see people dumping on the T-Bird then, in the next sentence, waxing poetic about the Granada 2-door!!! But to each his own I guess. I have a soft spot in my heart for old Falcons too.........

Edited September 11, 2006 by retro-man

[Hemiman]

I like the photoshops of a 427-based T-Bird, but - after all the shitting on the retro T-Bird here, I would like to inject a little perspective:

 

- "It's gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous." ~Georg Kacher - Automobile Magazine 1999

- "It got a standing ovation when it it came down the ramp at Detroit's Cobo Center ..... and the buzz hasn't stopped since." ~Car and Driver October 2000

- "It is the first Thunderbird in a while to deserve its name." ~Car and Driver, July 2001

- "Before Bert had set the parking brake, people swarmed the T-Bird. So many came over, in fact, that he couldn't get out of the car. As for Richard, well, hardly anybody noticed the Ferrari, so he was able to fetch a bearclaw and a coffee for Bert, still busy answering questions." ~ Road and Track, August 2001

- "It has so much style that a simple drive becomes an event, a celebration, a parade. .... the Thunderbird gets away with its approach because it has such style. Every gesture it makes is delicious ...." ~Automobile Magazine, July 2001

- "Nice job Ford - it's good to welcome back a legend." ~Motor Trend, July 2001

 

To which I would add:

- "Ohmygodlookatthatcar!" ~ a chick standing at the crosswalk with her friend near my building, sometime in 2002

- "Now that's a car!" ~ Host's brother, at a party I went to just today. (Several people went outside to "check out the Thunderbird" - this is a 5 year old car with 81,000 miles on it.)

 

And a thousand times in between - almost daily for the 4 years I've owned the car. You'll think I'm bullshitting unless you've had the experience. I have never owned, or known anybody who owned, a car that elicited so many compliments. One of my Japanese clients has made a point of featuring my car in photos of me on their website, and videos for customer presentations (as an example of "classic American style".) Do you suppose a '77 T-Bird - no matter how immaculate - would have elicited the same reaction? They love the car.

 

I have in my possession the following:

- 7 magazines with it on the cover

- A video of The History Channel's "Ultimate Automobiles" series, with an entire episode dedicated to "The New Thunderbird".

 

Let me see you duplicate that with any 70s, 80s, or 90s T-Bird.

 

Now, as for why the car was a commercial disappointment: I guess I pin it on a combination of 4 factors:

1.) Botched launch.

2.) Dealer gouging.

3.) Lack of any performance options.

4.) It is just too strong a brew for most people: they can admire it (and believe me, they do. Constantly.), but they can't see themselves in it. People who are comfortable seeing themselves as "fabulous" enough for a fabulous car, probably got that way over time, by being very successful. Those people are more likely to go ahead and buy a Jag or an Aston Martin (2 cars with which the T-Bird shared the stage in the James Bond movie "Die Another Day" incidentally). Oh, there are some "fabulous" people who bought the Thunderbird: Early buyers included Oprah Winfrey, Katie Couric, John Travolta, and Stormin' Norman Schwartzkopf. J Mays and Jac Nasser each had one built for themselves with a 390hp supercharged engine, and 6-speed BMW transmission (now, if they had offered these as options to the buying public......).

 

Here is a good article in Wikipedia that reinforces some of these points: link

It cracks me up to see people dumping on the T-Bird then, in the next sentence, waxing poetic about the Granada 2-door!!! But to each his own I guess. I have a soft spot in my heart for old Falcons too.........

 

Don't get too down on the folks here.

 

I think we would all agree that the last T-Bird was the best one ever made. The frustration here is with Ford's complete lack of ability to market such a fine car effectively. As you already noted, there should have been a high perf version, just like Mays and Nasser had. Pricing was way out there. 40K would have been good for the high perf version noted above, but as delivered, it should have been priced somewhere below the $40K mark. This discussion can also be applied to the Lincoln LS. Ford had a gem in these two DEW98 cars and didn't have a clue how to sell them. Hopefully this marketing weakness will be addressed by the new leadership.

 

The Granada two door:

 

I can remember the magazine add for the Sport Coupe or S model? Not sure which one it was, but I really liked it. 351W, 4 speed stick, 4 wheel disc brakes. Not bad for 1976. And these thoughts were from a teenaged gear-head who though anything produced after 1971 was just smog choked junk! Anyhow, even if you hated the Granada, when you found one in a junk yard, you would strip it of it's brakes. The front spindles and 9" rear were direct bolt in for our Mustangs. $150 and a half day in the junk yard netted 4 wheel discs and a 9" for your Mustang.

[goingincirclez]

Now, as for why the car was a commercial disappointment: I guess I pin it on a combination of 4 factors:

1.) Botched launch...

 

3.) Lack of any performance options...

...Nasser each had one built for themselves with a 390hp supercharged engine, and 6-speed BMW transmission (now, if they had offered these as options to the buying public......).

 

Hey man, I know you're an intelligent guy. I'm not trying to "shit on your ride"... I have a model of the '01 Bird (along with a '76 Lindberg Granada ) and framed the promo postcard they handed out at its debut at the 2000 Chicago Auto Show. I like it as well...

 

... but I still (sadly I might add) stand by my assertion that it IS a joke COMPARED to what it was so close to and should have been.

 

It may have more style than the 80s/90s versions... but still seems to be missing something. And those 80s/90s versions get a pass because they were never trying to be anything other than what they were. On the contrary, in 2000 Ford decided to sell steak without sizzle, and redo the ONE incarnation of the Thunderbird that truly meant "performance"... but kept the performance to themselves, while botching nearly everything else about the car quality-wise. So all it has is style, which is rightly credited. But to me, it isn't as timeless as the original. The novelty wears off every time I see those sleepy headlights and droopy rear end, and that heavy chrome windshield surround, and I wince a little inside. My wife and father-in-law had a cherry red '57 for many years, so the comparison is more than subjective.

 

But again, that's all just my opinion, and I'm the fool who likes Granadas after all (while conceding their faults), so take it as you will. I still "like" the retro bird... I just wish it wasn't another trademark Ford Farkup. It deserved better. I'm glad they tried, but demand that next time they go "retro" they get it right.

Edited September 11, 2006 by goingincirclez

[goingincirclez]

People aren't going to pay 30 grand for a damn Ford sedan.

 

Were we talking about a plain sedan? I didn't think so. We're hijacking about another car, a coupe, that if done PROPERLY should easily command a high price.

 

Look man, if you're so concerned about self-image and brand names, you can vote with your wallet just as you say others do. I will say that no SEDAN that Ford currently sells is worth 30K to me (neither is the Freestyle), but last I looked, Ford isn't pushing most of their SEDANS for that price. Close to it in some cases, with options, maybe. But so is everyone else but the bargain-basement brands. Wow, funny how that works.

 

If I did have 30 grand to plunk down on a car, I'd plunk it on the one that made the most sense, offered the best value for the money for my needs (and didn't put me to sleep looking at it, ha ha) - screw the stupid brand-name on the badge. I'm not pissing money away just to get a few certain letters or symbols on the hood, lol. Please. Not all of us are superficial, and I thought you've claimed to be among them? But if you want the Audi or Lincoln or BMW, fine, go for it. It's your money, enjoy it as you see fit. But you'll be spending more than 30 large for those - at least the ones that are worth it. Yeah yeah so Mercedes went downmarket and sells the C-class around 30 large - people aren't exactly thrilled with them, are they?

 

Now you can go on your little condescending tirades and call everyone "ladies lol" or "low attention span morons" or whatever but just spare the act for once. I don't have any personal beef with you but come on man: You're not the mayor of Stepford, you're not some self-appointed big-shot defender of common sense, you're just another joe wasting his time on a car board like the rest of us. Whee. Welcome to the club.

Edited September 11, 2006 by goingincirclez

[old_fairmont_wagon]

The reason that I found the 21st century t-bird so disappointing was that they put all that work into maintaining the style and looks by making some very substantial changes to the car, but couldn't see fit to revise the front suspension so that they could put in a larger engine. With just minor mods, it would have fit the 2V 4.6L from the mustang GT. While only producing about 5 or so more HP than the 3.9L, it did lead it greatly in the torque department and would have made for a much more entertaining vehicle. It would have been even better with the aluminum 32V 4.6L from the Mach1 inside as well. But alas, it wasn't in the cards.

[DCK]

Were we talking about a plain sedan? I didn't think so. We're hijacking about another car, a coupe, that if done PROPERLY should easily command a high price.

Not until they properly do a full-size sedan that can easily sell at 25k, properly do a mid-size that could easily sell at 20k, properly do a compact that could easily sell at 15, and properly do a B-segment that could easily sell at 12k. Then maybe they could go up to a 30k coupe. Right now the 500, fusion and focus sell decently because they undercut the competition by thousands, if they were done right at every angle they could sell as much of as the competition, but right now non of them are as good as the competition, so they sell for a lot less.

[goingincirclez]

Not until they properly do a full-size sedan that can easily sell at 25k, properly do a mid-size that could easily sell at 20k, properly do a compact that could easily sell at 15, and properly do a B-segment that could easily sell at 12k. Then maybe they could go up to a 30k coupe. Right now the 500, fusion and focus sell decently because they undercut the competition by thousands, if they were done right at every angle they could sell as much of as the competition, but right now non of them are as good as the competition, so they sell for a lot less.

 

Good points, and I agree with you in principle. To be fair, that's part of what I consider doing a plan for a car PROPERLY, which is the qualifier I've used all along regarding a car that won't happen

 

 

Anyhow, I think Ford is somewhat close to your metrics. At least, they could be. We all know the B-car is what has them sans pants right now; we can olny hope that Fields & Co. get it right when it finally comes. Know that in the past, they had B-cars that were competetive in their day; I still see more old Festivas on the road versus their contemporaries.

 

The Focus was doing exactly what you suggest around 15K until - dah-dah-dah! - they let it rot and fumbled it trying to compete with B-cars. But initially, before the quality woes set in, it did well. And even today it's not doing terrible, it's holding its own - at retail.

 

The Fusion nails your 20K point. No problems for now.

 

And then we have the mystical 25K. We all know what happened with the 500, but Ford isn't giving up. That will be key if they ever deserve to claim that chunk of the market for themselves.

 

The Mustang is what is is, and can sell itself as a bargain from 24-30K, nobody will argue that. All's I'm saying is a proper T-Bird should do the same. Ford showed they couldn;t build a 40K car with the last one... and they shouldn't try that again. Yet.

Edited September 11, 2006 by goingincirclez