With Dart and 200 dead, dealers try to backfill with Fiat

[RichardJensen]

 

Those are not exclusively Ford's competitors. You are missing out on VW, PSA, Renault, and FCA.

 

And you left out the fact that Ford did have a new Focus in 2005 model year so the average between model change over is much shorter.

 

You get a very different view when you include all of the data. Ford is right in the middle. Not the fastest, not the slowest to update. Although the current Focus is going on a little longer than most.

 

 

Focus: 1999, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2015

VW Jetta: 2000, 2006, 2012

Peugeot 306/307/308: 1993, 1997, 2002, 2007, 2014

Citroen Xsara/C4: 1997, 2005, 2011

Renault Megane: 1996, 2003, 2009, 2017

Fiat Bravo/Stilo/Tipo: 1996, 2002, 2008, 2016

 

The US Focus got a refresh in '05 and a more significant one in '08 stateside, which does skew the Focus numbers '99 / '05 / '08 / '12 / '15 4 refreshes/updates in 17 years = 4.25 years between updates.

[Pioneer]

If you're going by model year, the first year Focus was available in the US was 2000.

[RichardJensen]

If you're going by model year, the first year Focus was available in the US was 2000.

 

I always forget that!

 

And I'd like to say it's because I've got more important things to keep track of, but I think we all know that's not the case.

Edited October 12, 2016 by RichardJensen

[Pioneer]

I only know it because I had a 2000 Focus.

 

Manual crank windows. Only options were CD player and air conditioning. I sold it with 180k on it and my friends kid drove it until about 240k. He didn't change the timing belt on the SPI when I told him he should and it bent all the valves when it finally broke.

[PREMiERdrum]

I had a 2000 ZTS sedan (Rainforest Green) and a 2001 ZX3 hatchback (Jackpot Gold) .... the '00 stayed in the family and was generally trouble-free past 180k I think. The ZX3 met an untimely death when I was commuting home from campus and a young lady in a Montero, apparently overjoyed with her recently acquired Whopper, pulled out of a Burger King directly in front of me and rearranged my front in (and, briefly, my neck). The poor thing had less than 60k on her at that point.

[silvrsvt]

My 2002 SVT Focus was the worst car I ever owned...I'll just leave it at that

[grbeck]

We recently traded our 2005 Focus SE sedan with 232,000 miles on the odometer. It only started to give us real trouble within the last year. We bought a 2014 Escape SE with 5,800 miles on the odometer that was coming off-lease.

 

Interestingly, according to the Consumer Reports reliability surveys, the only really problematic areas with the current Focus are the transmission and infotainment system. The other parts of the car are reliable. But stories of transmission troubles scare people away - for obvious reasons. I've also read that the current Focus has an unusually high take rate for manual transmissions, which may be a reflection of this.

[akirby]

I won't recommend a Focus to anybody right now due to the transmission. It almost left my daughter stranded one time.

[Pioneer]

I won't recommend a Focus to anybody right now due to the transmission. It almost left my daughter stranded one time.

An MTX-75 will solve that problem.

[Pioneer]

Double post.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Pioneer

[bzcat]

We're talking about the U.S. market here, not Europe.

 

But Ford doesn't make decision about US markets in a vacuum. That's my point. They consider their competitive positioning relative to all of the competitors when making decisions on product investment, not just cherry picked subset that exists in the US market. Ford is unique among major car companies that it has strong car business in all 4 continents. No competitors have the same market share in compact cars as Ford in North America, Europe, South America, and Asia simultaneously. Everyone else is strong is some of these markets and VERY weak in the others. Ford is mainstream player in all 4.

 

This was the reason why the 2nd gen Focus didn't make it to the US market. And it is the reason why the current model is going on 6+ years.

Edited October 14, 2016 by bzcat

[akirby]

Fair enough, but you should use the Euro Focus refresh schedule prior to 2011.

[Biker16]

The question I would like to ask is how much capacity do you build for the all new car in 2019? 150k? 180K? 200K? any number will surely be far less than the focus sold prior to 2014.

[silvrsvt]

The question I would like to ask is how much capacity do you build for the all new car in 2019? 150k? 180K? 200K? any number will surely be far less than the focus sold prior to 2014.

 

Its highly dependent on gas prices..not to mention I'm assuming that the new plant will also allow production of the Model E Electric/Hybrid and Escape/MKC if needed.

 

Here is a handy chart for you

 

[RichardJensen]

The question I would like to ask is how much capacity do you build for the all new car in 2019? 150k? 180K? 200K? any number will surely be far less than the focus sold prior to 2014.

 

That's possibly why the next gen. Focus is going to be built in a plant that will also be building for sale outside of the US.

[jpd80]

The question I would like to ask is how much capacity do you build for the all new car in 2019? 150k? 180K? 200K? any number will surely be far less than the focus sold prior to 2014.

Or of bigger consequence, which way will Cruze head by that time.

Currently, GM is building about 33K a month, going like gang busters

but before the new model, its sales were on the skids just like Focus.....

 

The question remains about pump riming with hundreds of millions in new product cost

just to put sales where someone feels "comfortable" without realizing the true cost of

just getting there.

 

Perhaps the future will not be the way some forsee, there may be less need for

cars like Fiesta and Focus while more B-C sized utilities come more into play.

Edited October 15, 2016 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Or of bigger consequence, which way will Cruze head by that time.

Currently, GM is building about 33K a month, going like gang busters

but before the new model, its sales were on the skids just like Focus.....

 

The question remains about pump riming with hundreds of millions in new product cost

just to put sales where someone feels "comfortable" without realizing the true cost of

just getting there.

 

Perhaps the future will not be the way some forsee, there may be less need for

cars like Fiesta and Focus while more B-C sized utilities come more into play.

 

I think it becomes a self-fulfilling Prophecy, We wont invest in product because people won't buy the product, which leads to Fewer sales which makes the original concept true. the Newest entrants in the segment are selling Well art the expense of the older entrants.

[akirby]

 

I think it becomes a self-fulfilling Prophecy, We wont invest in product because people won't buy the product, which leads to Fewer sales which makes the original concept true. the Newest entrants in the segment are selling Well art the expense of the older entrants.

 

The part you're missing with Focus is

 

a - how much profit Ford is actually making on Focus even at peak sales

b - the impact of a significant MCE on profitability short term and longer term on the launch of the new Focus on a new platform.

 

I'm willing to bet Ford sees fare more long term profit in the new platform than they do in lower sales for the next couple of years.

[silvrsvt]

 

The part you're missing with Focus is

 

a - how much profit Ford is actually making on Focus even at peak sales

b - the impact of a significant MCE on profitability short term and longer term on the launch of the new Focus on a new platform.

 

I'm willing to bet Ford sees fare more long term profit in the new platform than they do in lower sales for the next couple of years.

 

Also when the product was invested into (2005/2008/2011) it generally saw increases in sales the following years. The Focus is dependent on gas prices more so then other products. If gas is cheap, people will buy larger CUV's or Escapes instead.

 

The only reason GM has changed its small car so much is the Chevrolet Cobalt sucked and the Cruze unified its small car offerings in South Korea and NA.

[Biker16]

 

The part you're missing with Focus is

 

a - how much profit Ford is actually making on Focus even at peak sales

b - the impact of a significant MCE on profitability short term and longer term on the launch of the new Focus on a new platform.

 

I'm willing to bet Ford sees fare more long term profit in the new platform than they do in lower sales for the next couple of years.

 

A: Then why Bother It is problem When your competitors can make a profit on Small cars while investing in them and Ford from the 1990 Mazda based Escort has never been able to make a consistent profit on small car.

B: The delay and new(er) platform ensures the new car will not be profitable for at least another generation.

(why) because the new tooling isn't free, and the losses being incurred from an under-performing product, stick and reduce the willingness to invest in it's replacement. (where we are today)

 

I am willing to bet Ford will continue to invest where it sees the least effort and risk, I.E. the F-series and Mustang, everything else is an afterthought.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Biker16

[akirby]

Prove that GM is profitable on small cars.

[Biker16]

Prove that GM is profitable on small cars.

Prove that the Gm isn't profitable.

 

If not how about Honda and their 2 plants in the USA making civics?

[silvrsvt]

If not how about Honda and their 2 plants in the USA making civics?

 

Non-Union workforces

 

And there is only one plant making Civics only...the other is making CR-Vs and the Crosstour (which I don't think is in production any more) and the Acura RDX, which I know isn't in production any more.

[silvrsvt]

 

I am willing to bet Ford will continue to invest where it sees the least effort and risk, I.E. the F-series and Mustang, everything else is an afterthought.

 

And you should shitcan your early 2000s thinking also...

 

What it boils down to is that smaller cars (what you keep harping about incessantly about) isn't as important to Ford in North America as it is to the rest of the world. Ford isn't stopping development of new products (we'll see an enlarged Focus in the next 18-24 months and a new Fiesta) like you claim they are...they are prioritizing development of products for its market places. The Escape is going to get more attention in NA then ROW because its second best selling product here. Same with the Fusion...the US prefers bigger cars and ONLY buys subcompacts when gas prices are high. I have no problem with Ford only being the 3th-4th best selling small car in the North American marketplace if they are profitable at it. its not like small sedans is exactly a growth market world wide either...

 

Its not like Honda is going to take over the pickup market with the Ridgeline (which languished without a major update for years...much for the same reason why Ford does what it does with the Focus)

[grbeck]

The current Civic, new CR-V and upcoming Accord all share a common platform. That is one way to better spread costs, which particularly benefits the Civic.

 

And the current Civic has moved upmarket...if you want a cheap, commuter car from Honda, you buy a Fit. Which is not manufactured in this country.