Lincoln to be Paired with Volvo and Goodbye Mercury?

[mackinaw]

This is a quote from today's Car Connection:

 

"Ford sources say that one of the scenarios being explored in a restructuring of the company is the dropping of the Mercury brand with the idea of merging the distribution channels of Lincoln and Volvo.

 

While some industry analysts and pundits have called for the closure of both Mercury and Lincoln, believing the brands to be a drain on Ford and unsalvageable, some Ford execs are reasoning that Lincoln deserves one more chance to be resuscitated the way GM revived Cadillac with a new generation of competitive product and snappy marketing. Too, while Mercury attracts a female buyer that Ford brand doesn't, the executives believe that an expanded Volvo product line could do even more to attract female buyers. -Jim Burt "

[LincolnFan]

nvm, didn't read the whole post.

 

DO IT! DO IT DO IT DO IT.

 

i'm sorry Mercury, but if you're the price of Lincoln's comeback.

Edited September 11, 2006 by LincolnFan

[wescoent]

Stupid stupid stupid.

 

Getting rid of a brand will only result in further sales declines.

[dr511scj]

Stupid stupid stupid.

 

Getting rid of a brand will only result in further sales declines.

 

Agreed. It's stupid. That's why they'll probably do it.

 

Why not sell Lincoln-Mercury to someone who has a clue . . . .

 

(Of course the Volvo-ization of Lincoln doesn't stand a chance in taking market share from the revitalized Cadillac, much less Lexus. Lincoln is on the slide into near-luxury status and bundling it with Volvo just greases the skids)

[ZanatWork]

Sure...now that Jill Wagner has young women looking at Mercury and young men looking at Mercury commericals that include Jill Wagner, kill the brand!

 

It's SO obvious that I should be running Mercury.

[dr511scj]

Sure...now that Jill Wagner has young women looking at Mercury and young men looking at Mercury commericals that include Jill Wagner, kill the brand!

 

It's SO obvious that I should be running Mercury.

 

No. You hate the Panther. That's reason enough to not pick you for it.

[goingincirclez]

OK that's just dumb. The only thing this does, is underscore the mess that Ford has beeen in ever since they bought Volvo in the first place. Ever since then, repeat after me:

 

"Lincoln, or Volvo? Volvo, or Lincoln?" They've become too similar in many minds. Oh, but now since Volvo traditionally has favor with women for its safety record, and old cigar-chompin' guys love their Town Cars, we can pair them together? Hell, why not rebrand one as the second coming of the "LaFemme" while we're at it?

 

I HATE "marketing towards women". Fine, it's necessary on one hand, I'm not saying women shouldn't count, ... but don't make it so freaking obvious. Everyone knows the axiom about how women buy "men's cars" but not vice-versa. Besides, it also sounds like pandering to a market out of desperation. And maybe that's indeed the truth, but again - quit making it obvious!

 

The product mix will need to be much more divergent for this to work... otherwise, sure: kill one of the names, pocket the marketing savings and sell all the products under one roof.

 

Really though, in the current guise of things, there IS a blur between Mercury - Lincoln - Volvo. They're all shades of gray. Either recast them as different colors, or erase one or two.

[waymondospiff]

Too, while Mercury attracts a female buyer that Ford brand doesn't, the executives believe that an expanded Volvo product line could do even more to attract female buyers. -Jim Burt

While I have no qualms with killing Mercury and using it's R&D and marketing budget to support Ford & Lincoln, I really don't think a Lincoln & Volvo pairing would work. The companies are too close in price, target market, and product to be a good fit. The product lines:

 

Lincoln - MKZ...MKS...(Town Car?)...MKX...Navigator/L...Mark LT

Volvo - C30...S40...V50...XC50...S60...V70/XC70...C70...S80...XC90

 

The only "non-competitive" vehicles would be the C30 & C70, the V wagons (kind-of), and the Mark LT truck. Otherwise the lineups are fairly similar. In another post we surmised about killing Mercury and pairing Mazda with Lincoln...those lineups don't really clash and are a bit more complimentary. Even better, in my opinion, would be a Volvo-Mazda linkup.

 

If Lincoln is revitalized, a la Cadillac, I see no reason why Lincoln couldn't be stand alone. The reason for L-M is to give the dealers enough volume to be viable. Lincoln stand alone dealers, with competitive products, would have the volume needed to be viable entities.

 

Scott

[ZanatWork]

No. You hate the Panther. That's reason enough to not pick you for it.

 

 

"Hate"? No...on the contrary, I think the ol' soldier should be allowed a peaceful retirement and a worthy successor should be created.

 

Going after the LX cars of the world with a Carter-era antique doesn't float my boat much. The taxi of the last 3 decades doesn't make a compelling competitor for something borrowing Mercedes engineering. Yes, dr, my ideal successor would be rear drive, capacious, and I'd want the Mercury version to start at no less than 300 hp and no less than $30,000.

 

I also would like a MX-5 derived "Capri" with either a straight 5 or a V6, a version of the gorgeous S-Max, and a Cougar that would get the irs and other goodies that would cost too much for the Mustang.

 

I've done a half-dozen full-line Mercury product line-ups on this board over the years, and it gets a little disheartening when the trends have actually gone where I predict.

 

I really oughta run the thing.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

Lincoln - Volvo does not a good pairing make. Neither has the volume or moves expensive enough iron to support a dealership outright. Combining them will just give you a more expensive dealership full of the same stuffed shirts that couldn't move the products before.

 

I'll say it now for the benifit of everyone. Pair up Mazda and volvo. There's almost no product overlap there, and enough volume to keep the place afloat. This would give you a place that has enough cachet to also have a special area set aside for the performance models from each. A section of the showroom dedicated to housing a Mazdaspeed 6, a mazdaspeed miata, a mazdaspeed3, a S60R and a V70R. You can have a dedicated high performance cars salesman for just those products who knows how to move that iron.

 

The other possibility is the completely oddball, so strange it just might work pairing of Lincoln/Mazda on one side and Mercury/Volvo on the other. Both would have a volume component and a luxury component. Very little overlap. And it would be a great way for both smaller distribution lables to increase the number of delaerships that they have.

 

The only thing missing from that formula is a hi-po mercury and a hi-po Lincoln.

[grbeck]

Agreed. It's stupid. That's why they'll probably do it.

 

Why not sell Lincoln-Mercury to someone who has a clue . . . .

 

(Of course the Volvo-ization of Lincoln doesn't stand a chance in taking market share from the revitalized Cadillac, much less Lexus. Lincoln is on the slide into near-luxury status and bundling it with Volvo just greases the skids)

 

There is less to Cadillac's revitalization than meets the eye. The only really successful vehicles are the CTS and the Escalade. The STS and SRX are outright duds, and the XLR isn't setting the world on fire (probably because a Corvette is better performing and better looking, all for less money). The DTS sells primarily to rental car companies and Cadillac loyalists - just as the last DeVille did.

 

Cadillac sales are up, but just enough to keep pace with a growing luxury market. Its percentage of the luxury car market remains unchanged.

 

Lincoln, of course, is in even worse shape, but Ford hasn't invested nearly as much money in Lincoln as GM has in Cadillac.

 

I'll be the contrarian and say that Detroit in general, and Dearborn in particular, need less badge engineering. Most buyers under the age of 50 don't even know if Mercury is still around, nor do they particularly care. There may be short-term pain, but it could result in long-term gain for Ford.

 

Just as the only domestic brands that GM really needs are Chevy, Cadillac and a combined Buick-GMC (call it LaSalle), the only domestic brands that Ford really needs are Ford and Lincoln.

Edited September 11, 2006 by grbeck

[LincolnFan]

If they're letting Lincoln go upmarket, then put Mazda/Volvo/Lincoln in one dealer, Ford isn't going to get rid of any of them, and fix one of the huge problems that occurd with the LS (assuming they're making performance carswith Lincoln) Dealers didn't knew how to sell the LS -ESPICALLY THE MANUAL-, but with Mazda and Volvo under the same roof (S60R & MS6) that problem will be fixed easily, there will be overlap, but too small to be noitced.

[Edgey]

Ford does seem to be witholding new products from Mercury. They will get a facelifted versons of existing vehicles like the Montego and Mariner, but they won't get a version of the Edge or Freestyle. In fact, they cancelled the Mercury Freestyle. These are the type of cars that Mercury is usually assigned because they appeal to female buyers. If we can have a Milan and Zephyr sold in the same dealership, why not an MKX and Mercury Edge? That is very strange and it seems easier than ever to imagine Mercury has FINALLY reached the end of the line. I have absolutely no doubt that Mercury will eventually be eliminated, but Ford has never been solidly comitted to restructuring its brand management, but this time I think they are finally starting to make the 'bold' decisions. I think a strong Lincoln lineup will eliminate the need for Mercury. I'm not sure Lincoln and Volvo are compatible brands and forcing them together may be damaging.

[silvrsvt]

In fact, they cancelled the Mercury Freestyle.

 

 

Isn't it strange that we've seen a Mercury Freestyle model, but NO restyled Freestyle photos?

 

Hmmmmm

[waymondospiff]

Cadillac sales are up, but just enough to keep pace with a growing luxury market. Its percentage of the luxury car market remains unchanged.

Meanwhile, the lack of investment in Lincoln has seen sales & marketshare slide. I agree, there have been mis-steps by Caddillac on their road to revival, but you have to plow ahead with a plan and keep improving the product. The 2nd gen Sigma cars will improve again and slowly, opinions will change and Caddillac will be added to more and more shopping lists. It's not overnight, it's slow and plodding, but it's the right way to win long-term customers.

 

And the SRX is about $5-10K too expensive. With the cheap CTS-like interior. I think the next go around will significantly improve the sales of the SRX.

 

I'll say it now for the benifit of everyone. Pair up Mazda and volvo. There's almost no product overlap there, and enough volume to keep the place afloat.

 

old_fairmont_wagon, I'd say I agree with you...especially since I already said as much. I don't really see a need to link Mazda & Volvo, but if Ford's looking to combine showrooms, then that'd be the best of the bunch in my eyes. The only way a Lincoln-Volvo link would work would be if Lincoln were revitalized with large, RWD, "American" cars. Lincoln-Volvo as it stands now (MKZ/MKS/MKX & S40/S60/S80) would be the place to go for conservatively styled AWD sedans. Not exactly a compelling argument.

 

Here's one other idea: *if* Lincoln is getting new, higher-end competitive products, and *if* Jaguar gets the boot, why not link Lincoln & Land Rover? That'd give the Land Rover dealers the volume and add cachet to the Lincoln dealers.

 

Scott

[KinneticBrian]

Just a few thoughts here...

 

One - If Ford is going to dump any divisions at all away, Jag and Land Rover need to go. I'd keep Aston only because it isn't all that financially draining, comparatively speaking, and because it is a great image car.

 

A few years ago, as part of the revitalization of Cadillac, they actually cut the number of dealers nationally, and moreover, did so to improve service. Maybe Ford needs to cut the actual number of Lincoln franchises to the ones that can and do provide world class service and sales support that is worthy of the brand's identity.

 

I saw in a post above that Cadillac's so-called renaissance has been something less in actuality than it seems from a marketing perspective. One needs to look no further than the switch from Leo Burnett to "Modernista!" for advertising that something is lacking in the eyes of management. The dismal sales of the SRX, STS and XLR and the overall reliability problems of the line that plague it still have got to be a real concern to Cadillac Management. Ford should be smelling blood in the water here if they don't.

 

As far as dumping Mercury and pairing Lincoln with Volvo, - both are a huge mistake. So called pundits and analysts who say the division is unsalvagable don't know their ass from their elbow.

 

Why not make Mercury a competitor with Chrysler and Buick? Start this by bringing out an all new sedan, perhaps the "Park Lane" that takes on the Buick Lucerne and Chrysler 300 but with bold, distinctly American styling (see the 427 concept) and performance to burn. Give Mercury something fun, like a derivative of the Mazda MX-5 with it's own styling and perhaps an all new Cougar based upon the Mustang GT's chassis.

 

As to Lincoln, I've been a proponent of bringing back the Lincoln Continental along the lines of the Mercedes CLS, building a new Town Car that looks like a fusion of the 427 and Lincoln Continental concepts, but on the "L" chassis with V-10 or V-12 power. Follow that with a new Mark IX coupe and roadster based on the Mustang GT targeting BMW's 6-series in terms of styling and power. Finally, ditch the Navigator and Mark LT and re-establish Lincoln as a premium car builder.

 

Just my 2 cents worth...

[xr7g428]

This is a quote from today's Car Connection:

 

"Ford sources say that one of the scenarios being explored in a restructuring of the company is the dropping of the Mercury brand with the idea of merging the distribution channels of Lincoln and Volvo.

 

 

The absurdity of this whole statement is probably compounded only by the fact that it may be true.

 

The idea of "merging the distribution channels" is purely the product of bean counters trying to do marketing. It might be helpful to Ford in some way to merge two of the brands, but it can only confuse the customers. The ONLY reason that any brand should exist is because it has some meaning to the customer. Adding Volvo to a Lincoln dealership is like adding some Mexican Food to the menu in a French restaurant. The Tacos might be cheap, but it is doubtful that any one who came in for French food is going to be interested.

 

Think about what a Lincoln customer looks like. They are successful. They are old. They want a substantial, quiet, powerful, comfortable, car. They want a car that announces their position in life. They believe that safety comes with mass and road hugging weight. Maybe an ashtray and a cigar lighter, and the biggest damn make up mirror ever fitted to a car. When this customer walks into a Lincoln dealership he doesn't want to see a hybrid econobox. Or a European high tech mid size sedan. (This is why a Lincoln with a V6 is going to go begging as long as they can get a big Cadillac with a V8. No matter how many turbos you put on the V6.) Haggling over the price is a delicate issue. On the one side, he has been around the block a few times, and on the other hand, he doesn't want to look like he can't afford the car... A quick kill is in order. The fast hardball offer. Straight up. The quick counter and...... it's either done or its not.

 

Think about what a Volvo customer looks like. She is intelligent. She is in the prime of her life, not maybe as young as she used to be, but so much smarter. She has money and spending it wisely is a priority. She doesn't buy every new style whim, but she is always fashionable. She has kids and will defend them and their safety like a lioness. She has a very low tolerance for foolish ostentatiousness. Cigar smokers offend her. When she goes to a dealership, she wants to be treated like they do when she goes to Nordstroms. No games, no pressure, this is not the third world, and she is not here to haggle over the price of a carpet. She wants the "sale" price. She knows from Consumer Reports what the average selling price should be. Get to the number, make the sale. No shenanigans. This shouldn't take any longer than buying a new couch.

 

You might disagree with these stereo types. Choose your own. The point is not exactly who the customer is, but that the product, including the buying experience, MUST be in line with the desires of the customer.

 

The crisis at Ford is not that they have too many brands, it is that they do not know why the brands exist, and neither do the customers. Volvo is safety, Lincoln is wealth and power, Ford is ???? Mercury is what ever Ford is but with nicer trim?

 

Define what the brand means, create products that support the definition, and then sell them in a manner that the customers find pleasurable. Do those things, and the money will follow.

[fllcobra]

I dare say, I think it is time to sell off Volvo, Land Rover, Jaguar and Aston Martin. The reason is simple. When people think luxury, they think Lexus, Infinity, Mercedes, and BMW. Until Volvo or Jaguar can make a sports sedan to rival an Infinity G35, there is no reason for them to exist in Ford's empire. And as far as Aston goes, it's gotta be draining engineering resources that would be better spent on building a Lincoln than can take down a Beemer or Infinity sports sedan.

 

While I love Land Rover, it too should be sold off with either Jaguar or Volvo to make the deal look better to potential buyers.

[silvrsvt]

Why not make Mercury a competitor with Chrysler and Buick? Start this by bringing out an all new sedan, perhaps the "Park Lane" that takes on the Buick Lucerne and Chrysler 300 but with bold, distinctly American styling (see the 427 concept) and performance to burn. Give Mercury something fun, like a derivative of the Mazda MX-5 with it's own styling and perhaps an all new Cougar based upon the Mustang GT's chassis.

 

As to Lincoln, I've been a proponent of bringing back the Lincoln Continental along the lines of the Mercedes CLS, building a new Town Car that looks like a fusion of the 427 and Lincoln Continental concepts, but on the "L" chassis with V-10 or V-12 power. Follow that with a new Mark IX coupe and roadster based on the Mustang GT targeting BMW's 6-series in terms of styling and power. Finally, ditch the Navigator and Mark LT and re-establish Lincoln as a premium car builder.

 

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

The thing is that Lincoln would never be able to compete in the 50K plus car market. As long as its stuck on a Ford platform, its not gonna work. It can survive in the 30-60K market with what it has now with no problems and Mercury can live in the 20-40K market supporting Lincoln. Lincoln doesn't have the panache that your MB/BMW crowd wants. I'd venture to guess that the best selling Cadillac Models all cost less then 50K

 

Combining Volvo with Lincoln or Mercury would be stupid. It goes back to that Import thing...People buy partly since its a import (has that oh so superior aura that any FLM product lacks) and has its reputation of being Safe. If anything, A Mazada/Vovlo linkup would make the most sense since Mazada is totally lacking in the 30K+ market with its products, right where Volvo would take over at.

Edited September 12, 2006 by silvrsvt

[RichardJensen]

If they're letting Lincoln go upmarket, then put Mazda/Volvo/Lincoln in one dealer, Ford isn't going to get rid of any of them, and fix one of the huge problems that occurd with the LS (assuming they're making performance carswith Lincoln) Dealers didn't knew how to sell the LS -ESPICALLY THE MANUAL-, but with Mazda and Volvo under the same roof (S60R & MS6) that problem will be fixed easily, there will be overlap, but too small to be noitced.

Putting Volvo and/or Mazda products at a Lincoln dealership does not guarantee that Lincoln dealers will know what to do with them. Nor does it follow that they will try to sell Lincolns to Mazda/Volvo customers.

[xr7g428]

Does any one really believe that customers walk into a dealership not knowing what they want to buy? Really, do you think they will walk into a Lincoln dealership to buy a Town Car, and some how leave with a Volvo? And even if they did, is that a good idea?

[goingincirclez]

Does any one really believe that customers walk into a dealership not knowing what they want to buy? Really, do you think they will walk into a Lincoln dealership to buy a Town Car, and some how leave with a Volvo? And even if they did, is that a good idea?

 

I'm sure many (but not all) people go in "knowing" what they want.... and then are handed a cruel dose of reality when the trade-in value is low, or the payments are higher than expected, or the just fell short of the bulletproof credit for the financing deal, or the options they want aren't in stock, or the mega-deal-price-in-the-newspaper ad was for one car the dealer never really had...

 

Now in Lincoln/Volvo demographics, some of those scenarios might not happen as often, but it still happens...

Edited September 12, 2006 by goingincirclez

[Footballfan]

Just a few thoughts here...

 

One - If Ford is going to dump any divisions at all away, Jag and Land Rover need to go. I'd keep Aston only because it isn't all that financially draining, comparatively speaking, and because it is a great image car.

 

A few years ago, as part of the revitalization of Cadillac, they actually cut the number of dealers nationally, and moreover, did so to improve service. Maybe Ford needs to cut the actual number of Lincoln franchises to the ones that can and do provide world class service and sales support that is worthy of the brand's identity.

 

I saw in a post above that Cadillac's so-called renaissance has been something less in actuality than it seems from a marketing perspective. One needs to look no further than the switch from Leo Burnett to "Modernista!" for advertising that something is lacking in the eyes of management. The dismal sales of the SRX, STS and XLR and the overall reliability problems of the line that plague it still have got to be a real concern to Cadillac Management. Ford should be smelling blood in the water here if they don't.

 

As far as dumping Mercury and pairing Lincoln with Volvo, - both are a huge mistake. So called pundits and analysts who say the division is unsalvagable don't know their ass from their elbow.

 

Why not make Mercury a competitor with Chrysler and Buick? Start this by bringing out an all new sedan, perhaps the "Park Lane" that takes on the Buick Lucerne and Chrysler 300 but with bold, distinctly American styling (see the 427 concept) and performance to burn. Give Mercury something fun, like a derivative of the Mazda MX-5 with it's own styling and perhaps an all new Cougar based upon the Mustang GT's chassis.

 

As to Lincoln, I've been a proponent of bringing back the Lincoln Continental along the lines of the Mercedes CLS, building a new Town Car that looks like a fusion of the 427 and Lincoln Continental concepts, but on the "L" chassis with V-10 or V-12 power. Follow that with a new Mark IX coupe and roadster based on the Mustang GT targeting BMW's 6-series in terms of styling and power. Finally, ditch the Navigator and Mark LT and re-establish Lincoln as a premium car builder.

 

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

I agree. I could see a Mazda/Lincoln merger, but not a Volvo/lincoln merger. The latter would create too much competition within itself for the same market. The proposed "Mark S" probably competes head-to-head with several Volvo lines. Also, what is the low end for a Volvo- about $27,000? This is several thousand dollars more than the lower end Mercurys. Lincoln, as you suggested, needs a distinctive all rear-wheel-drive platform built at its own plant.

[Blue II]

Lincoln and Mercury are staying. Jaguar, AM, and LR are for sale. Ford, Volvo, and Mazda will be rolled up into one engineering group. Purchase of 51% of the class "B" voting shares is being looked at. At one point Ford had more than 51% until some of it was lost with Henry II's divorces Upping it's Mazda stake to 51% is being studied as well. Mazda isn't always as cooperative as Ford would like even though they controll 34%.

 

These are historic times. We are looking at the reinventing of Ford Motor Company. If it all pans out they may just be on top when it's all over. They will be mean and lean. They will have world class Deisels, hyd. drive hybrids, and bold styling. Neither Toyota or GM will have what Ford has.

 

Look at the sales figures in the thread about Ford being #1. If Ford division was in such bad shape how did they get to be #1 in YTD sales? It doesn't bode well for Toyota to be #3. They have plants on American soil, no unions, a subsidized work force in Japan, and are in bed with the biased American car rags. They should be #1 but they aren't.

 

If you are a Ford fan these are exciting times. Adversity will always create opportunity. Sit back and enjoy.

[Watchdevil]

I think it would be a mistake to do away with Mercury. Perhaps it needs to stop being uplevel badge engineered more expensive versions of Ford models. It also needs to be less diverse and capitalize on special models that historically made Mercury a sucess in the first place. Let's face it, ever since Mercury dropped the Cougar nameplate it has never recovered. They never reformulated the Cougar into something that consumers expect. The same thing happened to Olds with the Cutlass nameplate. Both brands had best selling models with those nameplates and then they were later mismanaged and names applied to models that don't fulfill expectations. Also, the individual nameplates eclispsed the brand names themselves as the brand identity and when they disappeared they lost all identity... All Mercury had left that sold was the Grand Marquis and that is so antiqated that it left Mercury seeming like all they do is cater to old folks. Now Mercury is like the middle child in a large family. Mercury could take a lesson from Saturn at this point instead of ending up like Oldsmobile.

 

Mercury could sell a new RWD sedan and revive the Cougar. Also, the Messenger concept was a lost opportunity for them to have something unique... It could have been Mercury's "Sky" in coupe and convertble form... It could even be the next Cougar with four seats if bringing back a heritage styled Cougar is not in the cards. Mercury and Lincoln could be consolidated to just provide specialty models instead of a full range. I would at least like to see a new Thunderbird, a Cougar, Continental and Mark IX make comebacks... They can all share a RWD platform..

Edited September 12, 2006 by Watchdevil