This HAS to be a joke!

[Ovaltine]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...404/1148/AUTO01

 

BREAKING! GM and Ford rumored alliance

 

Automotive News reported early this morning that senior executives within Ford and GM have explored the possibility of an alliance, even a merger, in the near future.

 

The supposed talks between the two Detroit titans began sometime in July, soon after Rick Wagoner and Carlos Ghosn began investigating the benefits of a GM/Renault/Nissan threesome. The sources cited by Automotive News have not been able to confirm who opened the door to the talks, with one insider saying that Wagoner was the instigator, while another source disputes that assertion. It is known that a possible merger was discussed between the General's CFO, Fritz Henderson and Don Leclair, Ford's own CFO sometime in August.

 

See above link for full story (fairy tale?)

[igor]

I think more cooperation, like the 6speed tranny are in the store ... I do not actually have any concrete info - but that would be my expectation.

 

Some share engine and tranny developments. Maybe the GM 2 mode hybrid exchanged for something from Ford's inventions ...

 

I doubt they will merge - they have enough trouble on their own - but project-specific alliances make a lot of sense.

 

Igor

[LincolnFan]

Future Alliances, a Merge is too stupid.

[Ovaltine]

This from the foxnews.com website:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214290,00.html

 

Report: GM, Ford Executives Discussed Possibility of Merger

 

Monday, September 18, 2006

 

DETROIT — Executives of General Motors Corp. (GM) and Ford Motor Co. (F) have discussed a possible merger or alliance, the trade journal Automotive News reported Monday. Both companies declined comment.

 

Automotive News quoted what it said were several people familiar with the talks as saying that discussions involving senior executives began in July and are not taking place now.

 

The journal quoted one source as saying that GM Chief Financial Officer Fritz Henderson and his Ford counterpart, Don Leclair, discussed a GM-Ford alliance in August.

 

The report comes as GM and Ford have been slashing their work forces and closing plants in efforts to reverse multibillion dollar losses. Their sales have been hurt by competition from more fuel-efficient models from Asian automakers.

 

As the two biggest U.S. automakers, any deal would presumably face scrutiny by U.S. antitrust regulators.

 

In July, GM, Renault SA of France and Nissan Motor Co. of Japan announced a 90-day review of an alliance among them.

 

"As we've often said, GM officials routinely discuss issues of mutual interest with other automakers," GM spokesman Brian Akre said before business hours Monday. "As a policy, we do not confirm or comment publicly on those private discussions, which in many cases do not lead anywhere."

 

Ford Oscar Suris, also speaking before business hours, said: "We're not commenting on speculation."

 

Talk of alliances involving GM came after GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian, who owns a 9.9 percent stake in the company, called for GM, Renault and Nissan to pursue an alliance.

 

Carlos Ghosn, the chief executive of Renault and Nissan, has said the benefits from an alliance would be similar to the gains from the Renault-Nissan alliance, which have included cost savings from joint purchases of auto parts.

 

Ford earlier declined to comment on an August Wall Street Journal report that then-Chief Executive Bill Ford approached Ghosn about a Ford alliance with Renault and Nissan.

 

 

-Ovaltine

 

 

 

And now from the Detroit Free Press:

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...NEWS99/60918001

 

 

Report: General Motors, Ford have discussed possible merger or alliance

September 18, 2006

 

Email this Print this FREE PRESS NEWS SERVICES

High-level executives at General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. have discussed possibly forming a merger or alliance, Automotive News reported today.

 

The negotiations began in July after Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Renault SA CEO Carlos Ghosn broached the possibility of an alliance among Renault, Nissan and GM, according to several people familiar with the talks, Automotive News reported.

 

It is not clear who launched the talks. One person said GM CEO Rick Wagoner contacted Ford Motor the day after Ghosn disclosed his plan. A second person disputed that.

 

In August, GM CFO Fritz Henderson discussed the proposed alliance with Ford

CFO Don Leclair, said a person familiar with the talks.

 

But it is not at all clear whether the negotiations will bear fruit. As of now, the two

companies are not holding talks, and one person says there is a slim chance that anything will come of it.

 

GM spokesman Tony Cervone declined to comment on the report.

 

"We regularly talk to a number of people in the industry regarding business

opportunities of mutual interest," Cervone told Automotive News on Friday. "As a matter of course, we don’t comment on any of those because in many cases, they simply don’t lead to anything."

 

Ford spokesman Oscar Suris also declined to comment.

 

“It would surprise me if there were a coming-together on the grand level,†said David Cole, head of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.

 

“I don’t see it from a business standpoint,†said analyst Charles Fleetham of

Project Innovations in Farmington Hills. “They have the same high health costs,

high union costs, ineffective white collar work force that they want to get rid of.â€

Somewhere down the line, though, the number of companies that make cars is going to shrink, Cole said.

 

“There’s going to be more consolidation. I think it’s going to accelerate,†Cole said.

Ford and GM very well could start more joint efforts similar to their current work to develop a six-speed automatic transmission, Cole said, adding, that contacts between automakers “go on all the time at the senior level.â€

 

Talk of alliances involving GM came after GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian, who owns a 9.9% stake in the company, called for GM, Renault and Nissan to pursue an alliance.

 

Carlos Ghosn, the chief executive of Renault and Nissan, has said the benefits from an alliance would be similar to the gains from the Renault-Nissan alliance, which have included cost savings from joint purchases of auto parts.

 

Ford earlier declined to comment on an August Wall Street Journal report that then-Chief Executive Bill Ford approached Ghosn about a Ford alliance with Renault and Nissan.

 

Sources: PR Newswire news release and Associated Press

[Michael Reynolds]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...404/1148/AUTO01

 

BREAKING! GM and Ford rumored alliance

 

Automotive News reported early this morning that senior executives within Ford and GM have explored the possibility of an alliance, even a merger, in the near future.

 

The supposed talks between the two Detroit titans began sometime in July, soon after Rick Wagoner and Carlos Ghosn began investigating the benefits of a GM/Renault/Nissan threesome. The sources cited by Automotive News have not been able to confirm who opened the door to the talks, with one insider saying that Wagoner was the instigator, while another source disputes that assertion. It is known that a possible merger was discussed between the General's CFO, Fritz Henderson and Don Leclair, Ford's own CFO sometime in August.

 

See above link for full story (fairy tale?)

 

What's so funny about an alliance? There is a lot of technology and development costs that can be shared btwn the two companies alotting for quicker and cheaper turn around time from a development-to-consumer stand point.

 

Man.

[J-150]

a merger? No. Not going to happen.

 

 

An alliance? Probably. Expect to see more joint ventures, like the 6 sp FWD tranny.

 

There may be some hybrid tech sharing. DOD sharing. Etc.

[LincolnFan]

hmm, i wonder if Ford can do a little work out on the Zeta to replace the D(amned)3.

[igor]

hmm, i wonder if Ford can do a little work out on the Zeta to replace the D(amned)3.

 

very unlikely that 1) ford would kill large FWD sedans and 2) use Zeta as a RWD platform.

 

Igor

[ehaase]

Read an editorial from Automotive News written several weeks ago speculating on this issue, which I posted here - http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...amp;#entry90460

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there are powerful people thinking about this.

[RichardJensen]

Yeah.

 

In the midst of two restructurings, let's start working on a third restructuring.

 

Sounds like fun.

 

There is not a single executive I can think of, inside or outside Detroit that could make this work.

 

What I love is how the Auto News guy completely ignores the overseas markets. Like FoE and Opel/Vauxhall, or Ford/Australia and Holden. It's all about the U.S. It's not about all the shakeouts that will have to happen at 600+ mfg. and assembly facilities on all 6 inhabited continents.

 

It's all about solving problems in the U.S.

 

What a joke.

 

I can't even see GM and Ford cooperating on engines, let alone entire architectures.

 

And, furthermore, why should they?

 

Can Ford's PD problems be solved by integrating PD with GM?

 

Of course not.

 

Ambrose Bierce defined medicince as "A stone flung down the Bowery to kill a dog in Broadway", the metaphor applies here as well. Combining two inadequate PD units does not give you an adequate PD unit.

 

It gives you an even less adequate PD unit.

 

There are no efficiencies of scale to be had here, except in purchasing, and even with that, the Big 3 supplier base is so woozy that you can't even get much efficiency from them.

[mkoesel]

I think its fairly safe to say that both Ford and GM have lost most of their marketshare to the Japanese rather than each other. So why not team up in some fashion?

[RichardJensen]

So why not team up in some fashion?

Because consolidation is no guarantee of more efficient operations.

[630land]

"BREAKING! GM and Ford rumored alliance"

 

Whoever wrote this headline didn't read the whole story. Makes it sound as if it is going to happen. Ford will merge with a foreign company before GM.

[mkoesel]

Because consolidation is no guarantee of more efficient operations.

 

True. But its no guarantee against it either. I think the key would be combining the pieces of the business that are successful. It needn't be anything more than sharing more component development programs, at least at first.

[RichardJensen]

True. But its no guarantee against it either. I think the key would be combining the pieces of the business that are successful. It needn't be anything more than sharing more component development programs, at least at first.

Where it would make sense, IMO, would be emerging technologies (clean diesel, fuel cell, safety, etc.)

 

Apart from that, you might as well try merging the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees.

[2005Explorer]

Which sounds better...

 

General Ford Motors

 

or

 

Ford General Motors

 

:lol:

Edited September 19, 2006 by 2005Explorer

[2005GTP]

Development alliances would be ideal but a merger would never get past anti-trust regulation. Even with some alliances in development of new technology, will it really ever pan out to long term cost savings. I mean, isnt that why Ford owns Jag, Volvo, part of Mazda, and likewise, all the companies GM owns? There is supposed to be development cost sharing right there. However, I dont think either is lacking in economies of scale. I think what both are lacking is clear direction of building the vehicles people want.

[cclittle]

I'm sorry to see domestic market share go as much as the next guy, but...

 

wouldn't this be like the blind leading the blind?

[MustangGT66]

Merger would be the final for American car companies. Pay attention to your customers and your dealerships. Service is KING. I am speaking for someone who is an avid FORD fan. However, FORD has disappointed our family for the past several years. Door handles that come off on a 2005 Escape with less than 1000 miles, speaker systems that rattle, stereos with constant static, poor alignment causing premature tire wear, cars that require engine overhaul at less than 20, 000 miles? Cars that have engine lights coming on with less than 15,000 miles? Recall after recall after recall - forget it! These are all things that happened to a avid FORD family? Continously having to take time from work, spending Saturdays' at the dealer getting this or that fixed. When we go to buy our next Ford, we are told no chance to get one because you're on a waiting list that really doesn't exist. Come on FORD, what reason would I continue to be a FORD fan and even more so if you merge with one of your long time competitive forces? No thanks. It's 2006 and time for us to buy another new car. Care to guess where we will not be going?

 

2005 Ford Escape (door handle, stereo problems, alignment, new tires, speaker rattles at 28,000 miles)

2002 Mercury Sable (Red) (had 28,000 miles when engine required overhaul)

2002 Mercury Sable (Silver) (contstanly engine light on - no dealer could locate problem. Ended up giving this car back to Ford/Mercury)

2000 Mercury Mountaineer (stereo required replacement, engine RPM sensor, engine oil sensor, engine temp sensor) Has 57,000 miles on it today.

1996 Ford F150 4x4 (has 8,250 miles on it - recently recalled)

 

BTW - also have '66 Mustang GT and '77 Cobra II - 68k and 33k respectively - No problems!!!

 

And we have a 2003 Acura TLS, 1991 Honda Accord - The Accord has 232,000 miles !!

 

Of course, you could say it was the owner and maintenance - yeah, uh huh. FORD get your quality act together and we'll take another look.

 

P.S. I want a Shelby, have the money - but could not get any dealers to even consider putting us on the waiting list. I am not going to beg to buy a car.....sorry.

 

Good luck FORD - You've got some car models, especially the Mustang - however I have been reluctant to buy a car until the bugs are worked out.....sorry, but after several bad experiences, just not gonna' do it.

 

So, rather than merge LOOK to your customers for the answer to bring FORD back to profitability.

[630land]

Shows that the Taurus/Sable are not all that great as some say, bye bye!

 

BUt this merger rumor is like the Tabloids saying some actress is pregnent or that some movie star couple got married. Where's the real proof?

[DSenstad]

I agree with Richard that it is more for R&D and future development but without the pessimestic over tones. I think we might actually see either a division shared between the two, or a company co-owned by the two that will tackle problems such as Hydrogen, at least making it workable in America, neither company can do that alone. I also see a great cost savings for both comapnies to share Research, the actually implementation of the ideas into their cars will still be done independantly of each other.