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TobyTime

2020 Explorer XLT Disappointments

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Posted (edited)

Here's my gripe list for the "new" 2020 Explorer XLT:

 

- Forward Sensing System option is gone

- Auto-Dimming Interior Rearview Mirror option is gone

- Auto-Dimming Driver's Side Exterior Mirror option is gone

- Chrome finished dual exhaust tips are gone (the old fashioned semi-concealed bent tips in use now are disgusting)

- LED indicators in rearview mirrors are gone

- The XLT radio has been and continues to be awful. If you're going to give the Limited and above a 10 or 12 or 14 speaker B&O system, give the XLT a B&O system with 6 or 8 speakers.

 

Also, please tell me why in the world the Explorer (in all trims) STILL does not have rear LED turn-signals? The re-design in the rear was questionable as it is, but in the XLT, the lack of decent looking exhaust coupled with old incandescent bulbs didn't help.

 

Grrrr...

 

Does anyone else feel like Ford skimped on certain items in order to justify giving all trims the new Co-Pilot Assist package as standard equipment?

Edited by TobyTime

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Most likely to keep the point of entry a bit lower. It leaves the door open for those wanting those features to move up a trim level. I have my sites on the ST with all of that standard.

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Yeah, I mean I get that, but it's not like the redesigned 2020 XLT is any more affordable than the outgoing 2019 XLT body style. All those things I listed WERE available on the old platform XLT and have now been pulled from it completely for the 2020 re-design. And the jump from XLT to Limited, cost-wise, is ridiculous now. They need to close that gap a bit and either offer better deals on the Limited and above, or add some features back to the XLT. Paying 5-10k more for a Limited that doesn't lease well is not preferable. You'd think Ford would want as many of the prettier trims on the road as possible. Looking at the back end of the new XLT without finished dual exhaust, and realizing the options they pulled from it, makes me sick. Thanks for the reply!

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On 3/17/2020 at 8:33 PM, TobyTime said:

Does anyone else feel like Ford skimped on certain items in order to justify giving all trims the new Co-Pilot Assist package as standard equipment?

 

Yes sir TobyTime. I think it goes beyond that though. Ford has been on a "de-contenting" binge in the past few years not just with Explorer, but nearly all Ford branded vehicles for the U.S. market.

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54 minutes ago, TobyTime said:

Yeah, I mean I get that, but it's not like the redesigned 2020 XLT is any more affordable than the outgoing 2019 XLT body style. All those things I listed WERE available on the old platform XLT and have now been pulled from it completely for the 2020 re-design. And the jump from XLT to Limited, cost-wise, is ridiculous now. They need to close that gap a bit and either offer better deals on the Limited and above, or add some features back to the XLT. Paying 5-10k more for a Limited that doesn't lease well is not preferable. You'd think Ford would want as many of the prettier trims on the road as possible. Looking at the back end of the new XLT without finished dual exhaust, and realizing the options they pulled from it, makes me sick. Thanks for the reply!


Some of those were not standard on the XLT and required option packages.  But the new one is definitely more expensive.  Ford thinks they can get higher prices for the higher trims.  If people are buying them then they’re successful.

 

If people don’t buy them they’ll lower the price.  It’s classic supply and demand.

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Posted (edited)

akirby,

Correct, the first three of those features I listed were options on the XLT and now are not (forward sensing, auto-dim interior mirror, auto-dim exterior mirror). I amended my original post to clarify. I own a 2017 with all of those features and am now confronted with even a fully loaded XLT not having them or bumping up to a Limited, which I'd happily do, but the deals right now are terrible and with me it's a matter of principle. I've owned 4 Explorers over the years (XLTs and Limiteds) and have never been presented with such abysmal incentives. I'm ready to transition to another car company as a result. I wonder if the launch of the hybrid in limited trim is partly what they feel warranted the lack of incentives on that trim altogether, and I get that the XLT is the most popular trim, so in my mind they either need to rid themselves of the Limited and give the XLT some additional options and raise the price slightly or close the gap price-wise between the XLT and Limited.

Edited by TobyTime

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1 hour ago, TobyTime said:

I've owned 4 Explorers over the years (XLTs and Limiteds) and have never been presented with such abysmal incentives. I'm ready to transition to another car company as a result.

 

So you only buy Fords with huge rebates?  Or are you just saying the 2020 is overpriced compared to the competition?

 

If you only buy vehicles with huge rebates and don't look at the actual price relative to the competition, I don't think Ford wants you as a customer.

 

Would you rather buy it for $40K with no rebate or $50K with a $7K rebate?

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14 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

So you only buy Fords with huge rebates?  Or are you just saying the 2020 is overpriced compared to the competition?

 

If you only buy vehicles with huge rebates and don't look at the actual price relative to the competition, I don't think Ford wants you as a customer.

 

Would you rather buy it for $40K with no rebate or $50K with a $7K rebate?


Overpriced now relative to the prior years/versions I've purchased. I love my Fords and I'm quite loyal. I've also owned 4 Fusions during that same timeframe and now also have a 2020 Edge ST. (We are a 2 car family).


Ford wants every single  customer they can get, just like every car company out there. I've just never been presented with such poor incentives to be a continuing loyal customer on this front. It's frustrating. I buy the cars we're most comfortable in, regardless of rebate, but up to this point we haven't had any issues getting both. The rebates help, and for me it's not about vehicle price per se, it's about the bottom line monthly payment and how well a vehicle leases.

TT

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32 minutes ago, TobyTime said:

Ford wants every single  customer they can get, just like every car company out there.


Nope.  Not true.  They want all the customers they can get while maintaining a 8-10% overall net profit margin.

 

Thats why they aren’t importing Focus or Fusion.  Not worth it.  Taurus - not worth it.

 

Small rebates are fine since some like you expect something.  But large rebates indicate overpricing and/or too much supply.

 

Sounds like you just want to think you got a discount which is why I asked whether you’d rather pay $40k with no rebate or $50K minus a $7k rebate.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, akirby said:

Sounds like you just want to think you got a discount which is why I asked whether you’d rather pay $40k with no rebate or $50K minus a $7k rebate.

 

akirby,

   I'm curious why you are phrasing your question this way?  Why would anyone pick $50K with a $7K rebate, when the result is $3K higher?  Even those who are only interested in the monthly payment will see that the $40K/no rebate is the smarter choice.

 

Help me understand your logic.  HRG

Edited by HotRunrGuy

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16 minutes ago, akirby said:


Nope.  Not true.  They want all the customers they can get while maintaining a 8-10% overall net profit margin.

 

Thats why they aren’t importing Focus or Fusion.  Not worth it.  Taurus - not worth it.

 

Small rebates are fine since some like you expect something.  But large rebates indicate overpricing and/or too much supply.

 

Sounds like you just want to think you got a discount which is why I asked whether you’d rather pay $40k with no rebate or $50K minus a $7k rebate.


All that may be true. I don't work for Ford, maybe you have or do or maybe you're in a similar industry. I just know the vehicle I want, how much I want to pay per month, and what I'm looking for in a lease. Regardless of cost with rebate vs cost without rebate, I had 0 issues getting my 2020 Edge ST at the price I wanted, for the money down that I felt inclined to hand over, with the incentives available. That car has a $50k price tag. The same cannot be said for my current Explorer experience.

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20 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

akirby,

   I'm curious why you are phrasing your question this way?  Why would anyone pick $50K with a $7K rebate, when the result is $3K higher?  Even those who are only interesting in the monthly payment will see that the $40K/no rebate is the smarter choice.

 

Help me understand your logic.  HRG


HRG,

I think I understand what he's asking. He's trying to make the point that I only care about rebates rather than actual price. So in his scenario he thinks I would be ok paying $3,000 more for a vehicle as long as it had a bunch of rebates as opposed to paying less for the vehicle without rebates, which isn't true. I'm concerned about the details of the lease and my monthly cost. In the past, however, with all of the Fords I've owned, I had no issues getting both. The new Explorer rolled out aggressively in such a way that they're pricing/incentivizing it before they know for sure just how much people will or won't flock to this new body style, so they're being highly presumptive based on little data. It's a gamble. I've been looking at the 2020 Explorer deals since it launched, and have been through 2 separate lease extensions in the process. Oh, and don't get me started on the debacle at the plants with this vehicle. They need to price these competitively. As more people get wind of the build quality and manufacturing issues, they'll have a glut on the market if they don't already.

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2 minutes ago, TobyTime said:

Oh, and don't get me started on the debacle at the plants with this vehicle. They need to price these competitively. As more people get wind of the build quality and manufacturing issues, they'll have a glut on the market if they don't already.

 

Well said TobyTime sir. Quality and feature set for 2020 Explorer is horribly lacking for the prices Ford's asking (before rebates and other price discounts). Motor Trend in its SUV of the Year 2020 competition said this.

 

"Our advice? To Ford: Step up your quality game or lower your prices. To consumers whose boxes are understandably otherwise ticked by the Explorer: Don't pay sticker."

 

And you are correct, Ford does have a glut of Explorers and other vehicles. Last month Ford had the highest "days inventory" number of any automaker in the U.S. at over 90.

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31 minutes ago, TobyTime said:


All that may be true. I don't work for Ford, maybe you have or do or maybe you're in a similar industry. I just know the vehicle I want, how much I want to pay per month, and what I'm looking for in a lease. Regardless of cost with rebate vs cost without rebate, I had 0 issues getting my 2020 Edge ST at the price I wanted, for the money down that I felt inclined to hand over, with the incentives available. That car has a $50k price tag. The same cannot be said for my current Explorer experience.


You don’t have to work for Ford - just listen to Hackett.  They’re no longer interested in volume with little to no profit.  That means some vehicles will no longer be bargains relatively speaking.  If they can sell enough at higher prices they’ll continue.  If it doesn’t work they’ll lower the prices.  It’s all classic supply and demand.  

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58 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

akirby,

   I'm curious why you are phrasing your question this way?  Why would anyone pick $50K with a $7K rebate, when the result is $3K higher?  Even those who are only interested in the monthly payment will see that the $40K/no rebate is the smarter choice.

 

Help me understand your logic.  HRG


TobyTime explained it.  I was thinking 2 different vehicles at those prices.  There are a LOT of people who would pay $43K because they think it’s a better deal even though it’s not.  Same reason supermarkets can’t sell tuna at $1/can but make it 3 for $5 and they fly off the shelves.
 

Ive heard people say they won’t pay MSRP for a vehicle or they won’t buy without big rebates for the same reason.  Perceived value instead of absolute value.

 

But Toby seems to just be complaining about the lease prices compared to previous models.  Lack of rebates and no lease subsidies are becoming common on newer Ford’s.  That might change given the current economic situation.

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26 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

Well said TobyTime sir. Quality and feature set for 2020 Explorer is horribly lacking for the prices Ford's asking (before rebates and other price discounts


Yet it set a record for retail sales last quarter.  Somebody thinks they’re worth it.

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4 minutes ago, akirby said:


Yet it set a record for retail sales last quarter.  Somebody thinks they’re worth it.

 

Citation please. The Q4 numbers, which are the last quarter released, do not support your claim.

 

HRG

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2 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Citation please. The Q4 numbers, which are the last quarter released, do not support your claim.

 

HRG

 

Goodcarbadcar.net is one source, but since Ford doesn't separate the fleet vs. retail sales, I'm not sure if it available to public..

 

 

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I'll pitch in one *major* disappointment, also specific to XLT trim and that is the price difference between 200A and 202A series.

 

According to the order guide, going from 200A to 202A gives you 8-way power-adjustable passenger seat, ActiveX in lieu of cloth seats, LED fog lamps with silver-painted skid plates, and remote start, and more importantly, the unlocking to purchase further options like Co-Pilot 360 Assist Plus and/or panoramic moonroof.

 

What I am astonished is the  $4,140 MSRP premium to step up from 200A to 202A for just those 4 upgrades. Our friends in Canada only pay an additional $1,500 (and that's in Canadian dollars) which sounds a lot more reasonable. I know all these options and higher trims in general are the profit-makers, but Ford can do a much more subtle job or at least increase the number of features to somewhat hide the rip-off.

 

If I were to buy, I'm sticking with 200A and get the Comfort Package with Heated Steering, yeahh.

 

Also, don't you find bit funny that 2nd row bench seats used to be standard and you would pay extra for the bucket seats for the previous-gen and now it's the other way around?

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Posted (edited)
On 3/17/2020 at 8:33 PM, TobyTime said:

The XLT radio has been and continues to be awful. If you're going to give the Limited and above a 10 or 12 or 14 speaker B&O system, give the XLT a B&O system with 6 or 8 speakers.

 

The B&O system may not be much, if any, improvement. I remember that Savage Geese analyzed the high end 14 speaker B&O system in Explorer Platinum. He found it delivered some of the worst sound quality of any OE car audio systems he's ever tested.

 

The thread linked below has the Savage Geese video review. Go to 6:02 in the video for the audio system analysis.

 

20ExplorerBO.png

Edited by rperez817

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2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

Citation please. The Q4 numbers, which are the last quarter released, do not support your claim.

 

HRG


Sorry it was an internal quote about February sales from the employee forum.  And it was about retail sales not total sales.

 

 

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2 hours ago, dlghtjr90 said:

I'll pitch in one *major* disappointment, also specific to XLT trim and that is the price difference between 200A and 202A series.

 

According to the order guide, going from 200A to 202A gives you 8-way power-adjustable passenger seat, ActiveX in lieu of cloth seats, LED fog lamps with silver-painted skid plates, and remote start, and more importantly, the unlocking to purchase further options like Co-Pilot 360 Assist Plus and/or panoramic moonroof.

 

What I am astonished is the  $4,140 MSRP premium to step up from 200A to 202A for just those 4 upgrades. Our friends in Canada only pay an additional $1,500 (and that's in Canadian dollars) which sounds a lot more reasonable. I know all these options and higher trims in general are the profit-makers, but Ford can do a much more subtle job or at least increase the number of features to somewhat hide the rip-off.

 

If I were to buy, I'm sticking with 200A and get the Comfort Package with Heated Steering, yeahh.

 

Also, don't you find bit funny that 2nd row bench seats used to be standard and you would pay extra for the bucket seats for the previous-gen and now it's the other way around?


Or they underpriced the 200A for advertising purposes.  It’s only projected at 25% of XLT sales.

 

No question they’re shooting for premium pricing.  Just have to wait and see how it works.

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3 hours ago, dlghtjr90 said:

I'll pitch in one *major* disappointment, also specific to XLT trim and that is the price difference between 200A and 202A series.

 

According to the order guide, going from 200A to 202A gives you 8-way power-adjustable passenger seat, ActiveX in lieu of cloth seats, LED fog lamps with silver-painted skid plates, and remote start, and more importantly, the unlocking to purchase further options like Co-Pilot 360 Assist Plus and/or panoramic moonroof.

 

What I am astonished is the  $4,140 MSRP premium to step up from 200A to 202A for just those 4 upgrades. Our friends in Canada only pay an additional $1,500 (and that's in Canadian dollars) which sounds a lot more reasonable. I know all these options and higher trims in general are the profit-makers, but Ford can do a much more subtle job or at least increase the number of features to somewhat hide the rip-off.

 

If I were to buy, I'm sticking with 200A and get the Comfort Package with Heated Steering, yeahh.

 

Also, don't you find bit funny that 2nd row bench seats used to be standard and you would pay extra for the bucket seats for the previous-gen and now it's the other way around?

 

Very valid point and thank you for mentioning it! I too have found it crazy that the cost of the 202A is so high. I refuse to drive an Explorer without the features in that package though so I'll pay it as well as the $2,000 for 4WD, but yes, they're both expensive when considering the options they include.

 

Also, yes, I too find it odd that the captain's seats are now standard rather than optional, however, the reason for that I'm assuming is because Ford has engineered that new low-entry stepover center console in the 2nd row which makes getting people in the 3rd row much easier than a bench seat, I've tried it, it's good.

 

TT

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Posted (edited)

rperez817

 

Audio review aside (I don't pay any attention to someone else's review of something MY eyes and/or ears are going to see and/or hear such as movie and audio reviews), anything HAS to be better in B&O form than the current and prior gen XLT stereo. It's an abomination. It's probably the biggest gripe I had after buying my 2017, other than the crappy Hankook tires that lasted maybe 30,000 miles before needing replacement.

TT

Edited by TobyTime

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13 minutes ago, TobyTime said:

 

Very valid point and thank you for mentioning it! I too have found it crazy that the cost of the 202A is so high. I refuse to drive an Explorer without the features in that package though so I'll pay it as well as the $2,000 for 4WD, but yes, they're both expensive when considering the options they include.

 

Also, yes, I too find it odd that the captain's seats are now standard rather than optional, however, the reason for that I'm assuming is because Ford has engineered that new low-entry stepover center console in the 2nd row which makes getting people in the 3rd row much easier than a bench seat, I've tried it, it's good.

 

TT

 

Correction: it is $5,140 for the 202A upgrade, not 200A.

 

4 minutes ago, TobyTime said:

rperez817

 

Audio review aside (I don't pay any attention to someone else's review of something my eyes and/or ears are going to see and/or hear such as movies and audio quality), anything HAS to be better in B&O form than the current and prior gen XLT. It's an abomination. It's probably the biggest gripe I had after buying my 2017, other than the crappy Hankook tires that lasted maybe 30,000 miles before needing replacement.

 

I am unfortunate to announce any XLT without the 20" wheel upgrade will come with 255/65R18 Hankook Kinergy GT tires. I don't know if it's same spec as the previous-gen, but I presume cost was the highest priority.

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