Diversity

[fuzzymoomoo]

39 minutes ago, hllywd said:

Exactly! I'm hearing many who say, "if we don't get everything then we walking!" To me, that's a symptom of what society in general has become; you either agree 100% with me or you become my enemy. No relationship can survive with that mentality. All relationships require compromise. In the case of contract negotiations, one side may "win" or get the lion's share but both sides generally walk away with something they were fighting for. Neither side gets "everything". Personally, the proposal I saw last week didn't seem far off...bump it from 15% to 20 or 25% and everything else I saw (with the exception of the revised profit share formula) seemed reasonable. I guess we'll see...was eerily quiet over Labor Day weekend.

 

You and I are on the same page brother. The farthest apart was wage increase. 9% over 4 years is just insulting. 

[paintguy]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

 

You and I are on the same page brother. The farthest apart was wage increase. 9% over 4 years is just insulting. 

Think some of you are on the right track. As retired salary, I've seen a few of these contracts come through and worked on a bargaining team at another, smaller employer. The process is one of give and take. What are the most important things to the membership. How much will it cost the company? What benefit dollar to the union. You have some bright people that can figure it out. Just find out who they are and let them talk.(Here I go again trying to make sense.) What nagging items does company and union have that cause much frustration but cost little? UAW has a much different leadership team and management is different than last contract. Good Luck. Art of negotiation is tough. Strikes are costly to both sides, choose wisely my friends.

Edited September 6, 2023 by paintguy
clarity

[Decker]

Negotiations, time will tell the story.

 

It seems the activists are not happy with the latest discussions on the social media outlet, by the just barely president. The president is moving  slightly away from all or nothing stance. Going from the strike strike strike to well... lets hear what is being offered. Reality, many times is the doorway to serious negotiations. Most cases the hyper activity is back peddled for a more business approach. 

 

During an AP interview, "Fain admitted the possibility of avoiding a strike and recognized that the union might need to give up some of his requests to reach and agreement." Fain also stated "he would rather reach a new contract with the automakers than begin a strike of up to 146000 members" 

 

CNBC; "Wages aren`t the problem, our conditions aren`t the problem, it`s cooperate greed" Another awakening, "wages aren`t the problem", 24 hours ago it was the main problem.  Business makes for clearer views of the problems and there level of importance. 

 

I`m seeing a reduction, less hyper and more business like manner coming into view. "Members Demands" now "Requests" "Give up some to reach an agreement". What a difference a day makes. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Decker

[Decker]

During these negotiations, there is a not widely used tool from the past, but possibly a tool being applied for Ford and other UAW negotiations. 
Lear is now putting together their third “tentative agreement” for the communication to their membership. 
Tentative agreements can be used to put the choice of yea or nea on the negotiations results in the hands of the membership.This can be a good or not so good. It puts the membership in line for making the decision on the subject matter of a contract but like in past contact negotiations will the membership vote on the tentative agreement “highlights” or be given time to dig into actual language? Only time will tell. 
 

In the mean time production continues through the tentative agreement clause in the master agreement. 
 

Ford sure has their nationwide PR blitz in place. Employing more hourly Americans then any other in the industry. I have to say great timing and subject content Ford. 
Then we have IUAW Facebook. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

New report from Craine’s Detroit says the union is bending on the wage increase demands. Current offer in the mid-30 percent range. Good luck passing any contract now, should have kept your mouths shut. Let the shit show commence

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/automotive/uaw-detroit-3-negotiations-union-lowers-pay-raise-demands

[Decker]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

New report from Craine’s Detroit says the union is bending on the wage increase demands. Current offer in the mid-30 percent range. Good luck passing any contract now, should have kept your mouths shut. Let the shit show commence

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/automotive/uaw-detroit-3-negotiations-union-lowers-pay-raise-demands

You are so right. The tuber talk may just come back to haunt the just barely president.  

 

Ford pays big money for some well thought out commercials, after airing this all over the millions of TV`s yesterday well millions were glued to every NFL play, I'm sure it was in response to the tuber`s radical/activist drama. Hell it was on every huge screen projection system in VEGA yesterday too. 

 

Ford: "All In On America" was a Ford Corporate Media Production

 

[Oac98]

7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

New report from Craine’s Detroit says the union is bending on the wage increase demands. Current offer in the mid-30 percent range. Good luck passing any contract now, should have kept your mouths shut. Let the shit show commence

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/automotive/uaw-detroit-3-negotiations-union-lowers-pay-raise-demands

It’s not like 46 percent was gonna happen! You know that! 

[Oac98]

7 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

New report from Craine’s Detroit says the union is bending on the wage increase demands. Current offer in the mid-30 percent range. Good luck passing any contract now, should have kept your mouths shut. Let the shit show commence

 

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/automotive/uaw-detroit-3-negotiations-union-lowers-pay-raise-demands

I believe you knew that some of the things Sean Fain was blasting his mouth off about probably won’t happen. This comes as no surprise that the wage demands have been lowered. There will be no 4 day work week 8 hours either I bet. Unifor has been nothing but silent so I have to watch the UAW show right now. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

4 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

It’s not like 46 percent was gonna happen! You know that! 

Oh I’m well aware of that. The problem isn’t me, it’s everyone else that apparently doesn’t understand how negotiations work. 

[Decker]

It is definitely those that don`t understand, more to the point there is only one VP that`s ever sat across the table from the company to negotiate a contract. 

 

"This comes as no surprise that the wage demands have been lowered." just a point of clarity the just barely president has back peddled on the labeling of "membership demands" to "requests" 

     

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Decker said:

This comes as no surprise that the wage demands have been lowered." just a point of clarity the just barely president has back peddled on the labeling of "membership demands" to "requests" 

I didn’t catch that, when did that happen?

[Decker]

1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

I didn’t catch that, when did that happen?

Back last week Tuesday or Wednesday  He did a few interviews with AP, CNN and CNBC this was quoted from the AP & CNBC interviews.

 

During an AP interview, "Fain admitted the possibility of avoiding a strike and recognized that the union might need to give up some of his requests to reach and agreement." Fain also stated "he would rather reach a new contract with the automakers than begin a strike of up to 146000 members" 

 

CNBC; "Wages aren`t the problem, our conditions aren`t the problem, it`s cooperate greed, Fain stated"

 

The delivery and tone was much different in these interviews. No mention of the "membership demands" well, not straight forward. The spin was put in place with "the Union" (membership) might need to give up some. It`s almost like someone gave him a wake up call. No more VEBA, pensions for all, increase in pension benefits, no tiers, etc etc and 46%  demands? now requests? 

 

But then again the president is wingin it....

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Decker

[Oac98]

14 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

Oh I’m well aware of that. The problem isn’t me, it’s everyone else that apparently doesn’t understand how negotiations work. 

Some people will believe Shawn Fein can achieve all that he demands. We know that will not be the case, aim for the moon I get it but we know that ain’t happening. Sean Fain  even got the Unifor gang up here expecting a lot more as well. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Oacjay98

[paintguy]

19 hours ago, Decker said:

You are so right. The tuber talk may just come back to haunt the just barely president.  

 

Ford pays big money for some well thought out commercials, after airing this all over the millions of TV`s yesterday well millions were glued to every NFL play, I'm sure it was in response to the tuber`s radical/activist drama. Hell it was on every huge screen projection system in VEGA yesterday too. 

 

Ford: "All In On America" was a Ford Corporate Media Production

 

Gotta give those corporate media types to come up with those commercials so close to the contract expiration. Ah the things you can say and not say while negotiating a contract. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said:

Some people will believe Shawn Fein can achieve all that he demands. We know that will not be the case, aim for the moon I get it but we know that ain’t happening. Sean again even got the Unifor gang up here expecting a lot more as well. 

They’re not really wrong though, I’m sure in years past your guys’ contracts were loosely based on what we got. 

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

They’re not really wrong though, I’m sure in years past your guys’ contracts were loosely based on what we got. 

Of course! When the UAW had to make major concessions CAW at the time then had to as well in the name of cost competitiveness during 2008-2009 crisis as one example. I doubt Unifor will strike. We are the target if no agreement by the September 18th deadline they will opt to extend. UAW I feel a strike is likely but who knows. I still believe if the UAW chooses a target it will be stellantis. 

[Decker]

IUAW President Fain, has stated that the UAW and the Big 3 have made major progress but are still far apart. He reiterated that September 14 is a deadline. He will be rolling everything out tomorrow on his Facebook live broadcast. He's calling this a stand up strike in reference to the sit down strike. (the sit down strike was completely different)  Between the Big 3, he intends on picking targeted plants that he will announce Thursday night at 10 pm on Facebook live.

If your plant is not called that plant will be working under an expired contract. He will get more details out explaining what that means soon. Fain stated, he understands that not everyone has Facebook so they will get everything out to everyone as quickly as possible the best they can.
 

How things change. From strike everybody to targeted strike. Change the name and stay the same. “Stand Up Strike”. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Decker

[Decker]

Last nights Facebook chat was informative in as much as I found out more about our presidents background and family history. Then at one point things went in a direction of quoting the old testament. That`s all good as a background episode and reinforcing our president is one of us but, toward the end of the video our president spent time reading, I guess the Facebook responses.   

 

The president had to reiterate multiple times that we can`t consider striking all facilities at the same time. He and many Eboard and support Rep`s agreed that a "standup" strike would work the best for our commitments to the membership.  It seemed that more than a few posts kept referring to the initial demands that the president was so forceful at proclaiming a few weeks back.  Hope the 46% isn`t engraved in some of the memberships minds to a point of anything else is a no vote. 

[fuzzymoomoo]

44 minutes ago, Decker said:

Hope the 46% isn`t engraved in some of the memberships minds to a point of anything else is a no vote. 

That ship sailed the instant it first came out of his mouth 

[Decker]

I`ve been paying for representation for longer than most members have been members. Longer than some members have been on earth. I`ve thought about the business applications of producing different commodities and yes producing automobiles over the years. I`ve always wondered why the representation we all pay for have yet to give the appearance or applied a simple business concept, that all other suppliers use. I have come to the conclusion I will never know why the IUAW is not ran in a business orientated manner to generate the best possible benefits to the dues paying members. But before I retire I`ll pass along my old view of a business concept that I`ve talked about many times.

 

I think it would be interesting to show all manufacturers costs/benefits for labor, currently.

Include Honda, Toyota, Hundai, BMW, Tesla and our UAW hourly/benefit rates. Side by side, charts are used for everything else in business. This would be a comparison of all labor work forces, not only unionized work forces. This pay and benefits comparison of all assembly/parts supplier industry would give not only the IUAW negotiation team data to back up their requests/demands but put into perspective the big three`s offerings. A possible side benefit from this comparison could be used in organizing other work forces. This comparison (for best results) could be done by an outside source to give transparency and provide the membership a clearer nonbias view of their compensation/benefits packages that is being offered by the company and/or presented by the IUAW to the membership. Then make the comparison public. We the UAW, are competing in the marketplace not as manufacturers but as suppliers.

There are no suppliers of any commodity that’s willing to sell their product to Ford, that doesn’t know what the other suppliers are charging for their products or services to Ford. This, a business concept that has been in place forever in every industry, except selling labor. Doses the IUAW base their negotiations on even a close comparison to other suppliers of labor?

 

Here`s to hoping for the best, no more sold out tiers, no more in-transition language and lord knows no more “it`s the best we could get”….

The best way to move forward is to never forget, past mistakes. Williams, Settles, Holifield, Jones, Etc.

[cal50]

Its a good point and all vehicles are manufactured and assembled the same way so incurred costs are similar.

 

You mean use Excel with actual data and maybe a pivot table with graphs and real values?

That would require actual work with data / stats and tech savvy the IUAW is not.

 

Skimming thru some of the news briefs Farley is clear he feels hourly is comped very well and many are which has nothing to do if the company is profitable. 

If the company is profitable its insane to expect workers , hourly and salary to reduce or pay more for their existing benefits and wages.

 

Forget about virtually nothing added to Ford legacy employees pension for decades , COLA and the 2nd tier thingy.

 

 

[Oac98]

On 9/14/2023 at 8:19 AM, fuzzymoomoo said:

That ship sailed the instant it first came out of his mouth 

If your paint shop and finally assembly are down only a matter of time before you guys in body go down too. You did say you’re in body unless that changed. How do you feel about all of this?

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

If your paint shop and finally assembly are down only a matter of time before you guys in body go down too. You did say you’re in body unless that changed. How do you feel about all of this?

Body and subs got robocalled at 1am. 

[Oac98]

Thanks for the response and good luck we might be out up here by next week too although I feel like it’s unlikely 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Oacjay98

[Decker]

Shit is coming unglued....

 

"UAW President Shawn Fain released the following statement, following reports of planned layoffs of non-striking workers at GM and Ford:"

"Let's be clear: if the Big Three decide to lay people off who aren't on strike, that's them trying to put the squeeze on our members to settle for less. With their record profits, they don't have to lay off a single employee. In fact, they could double every autoworker's pay, not raise car prices, and still rake in billions of dollars."

"Their plan won't work. The UAW will make sure any worker laid off in the Big Three's latest attack will not go without an income. We'll organize one day longer than they can, and go the distance to win economic and social justice at the Big Three."

 

Ummm the just barely president thought the company's were just going to make direct deposits to all but the Paint members that he sent out on some kind of walk out? He really thought Body, Trim, Chassis and MP&L would just report to their operations and sweep or sit next to their operations? for a regular check?

 

What did "expired" mean to the just barley president? "Extended or Extension" of a contract would have left benefits in place, health/Medical, short work week and SUB. Then will the states of Ohio/Missouri list unemployment applications as lack of work or work stoppage? Work Stoppage will be another issue for the pres. He will make sure every laid off member will not go without an income? His income? Equal to unemployment & SUB?  

 

This is as he has said many times, will make history.