Ford loses $5.8B in 3Q

[g48150]

Well, with the 23% production reduction coming in this quarter, it is safe to assume that there will be 23% less revenue (not profit).

 

Couple that with the end of Taurus revenue, January will not be bringing gifts this year.

 

I knew the bleeding was bad, but I didn't figure 5.8 Billion (with a B). I for sure thought $3 Billion (with a B). Something else had to happen, like a payment or something.

 

Revenue was $36.7 Billion (with a B), 0.77 * 36.7 Billion = $28.25 Billion minimum for this quarter. OUCH! Isn't that close to cash on hand? Come on business students, whats the statistical term for a company that earns as much as it has?

[RichardJensen]

This begs the question, what the hell happened 14 years ago at Ford when they had a worse quarterly report?

I believe there was a rather sizable adjustment in pension accounting. IIRC, GM and Chrysler had similarly gigantic losses.

[2005GTP]

This begs the question, what the hell happened 14 years ago at Ford when they had a worse quarterly report???

 

I know the country was in a recession, but a loss like this suggest there was more wrong then just that.

 

To keep a positive outlook on this, Ford made $27 Billion 5-6 (1997-98) years after this.

 

 

Big difference,,,,,,in the 90's, gas was a buck a gallon so Ford could sell trucks and suv's at 10k+ profit per vehicle. That will not ever happen again unless oil fell to 20 bucks a barrel which we know won't happen. I read someone that the Fusion might make 2-3k per vehicle which means they have to sell about 4-5 Fusions for every Expedition they sold in the 90's.

 

Can't forget the oil factor. Ford banked its entire future in the late 90's on suv's and forgot that one variable needed to run the damn cars is not a renewable resource.

[silvrsvt]

Big difference,,,,,,in the 90's, gas was a buck a gallon so Ford could sell trucks and suv's at 10k+ profit per vehicle. That will not ever happen again unless oil fell to 20 bucks a barrel which we know won't happen. I read someone that the Fusion might make 2-3k per vehicle which means they have to sell about 4-5 Fusions for every Expedition they sold in the 90's.

 

Can't forget the oil factor. Ford banked its entire future in the late 90's on suv's and forgot that one variable needed to run the damn cars is not a renewable resource.

 

 

Well I'm not expecting 27 billion in profits anytime soon, but they will be a smaller, profitible company.

 

Ford knew trucks and SUV's where going to die off, just that it happened alot faster then they where expecting, not to mention that Ford Car product line up has been fucked for over 10 years now, and just has been somewhat corrected in the past 18-24 months

[WC-MAN]

I always love how I get on sites for American car companies and hear them justify crappy sales by saying GM and Chrysler (or Chrysler and Ford or Ford and GM) have as many problems. The competition did as bad as us, YAY!!! :happy feet:

 

Ford created its own downfall. It put all its money into SUV's and trucks and neglected cars, their Japanese competitors did make advances in trucks, but kept their cars at the cutting edge. When the market moved away from trucks, they had given up the car market. Too many people had an Explorer in the driveway next to a Camry because they wouldn't buy a Taurus.

[DCK]

i just dont understand this statement... what exactly is so brand new and great about GMs ucoming stuff?

 

and saying for has nothing is rather odd.. considering a new Escape\Mariner next year, a freshed and uppowered 500 next, redid foci next year, edge.. lincoln and mercury counterparts etc...

 

what exactly goes gm have?

Well Let's Look at what has launched since there 8 billion dollar lost in Q4 2005. (was it 8 billion I can't remember I know they finished the year in the plus 10 bill category for losses) Also let's look at what is coming.

 

These are vehicles that launched since the big loss in Q4 of 2005 and vehicles coming within a year.

 

Silverado

Sierra

Yukon

Escalade

Suburban

Tahoe

Aura

Sky

Solstice

Vue Hybrid

Outlook

Acadia

Enclave

Torrent

Refreshed interior Equinox

Refreshed SRX with completely new interior

Aveo

Lucerne

DTS

New Malibu

CTS

Astra

New Vue

refreshed STS

G5(a joke I know)

Coupe and convertable of the G6

 

In the Far distance in 2008:

Chevy Lambda

reskinned Cobalt

Cadillac BRX

Saab 9-4x

H3 pickup

New G6

 

 

Now let's look at Ford:

 

Edge

MKX

refreshed zephyr with new name and upgrade powertrain

All wheel drive in the fusion and milan

reskined focus

reskined escape

reskined mariner

refreshed 500

refreshed montego

expedition

extended expedition

refreshed freestyle

 

In 2008:

 

MKS

Fairlane

Lincoln fairlane variant

possibly a mercury freestyle

 

----------------------------

That is what I have, if I am wrong just let me know. I just don' see significant product from ford till 2009 and beyond.

 

 

Did anybody hear Mulally announce the loses? This guy does not engender confidence, especially when he sounds just shocked and surprised like a regretful father of a misbehaving teenager. He sounds like he's apologizing for his company’s misbehavior. Of course we know it's 'unacceptable'! This could have been spun a lot better than it has been.

Well I think in Ford's case It is better to just be blunt and say here are the results, don't try to cover it up just report and like Mullaly said hit rock bottom ASAP because it is a lot better feeling when your moving up from rock bottom, is this Ford's rock bottom? that is the main question.

[Edstock]

"significant product"

 

Depends what you call significant. Pontiac Torrent? Not. Reskinned Focus? Yes.

 

Anyway, there's the HD trucks and a 2K8/9 re-skin Crown Vic and possibly TC

[Bluecon]

Did anybody hear Mulally announce the loses? This guy does not engender confidence, especially when he sounds just shocked and surprised like a regretful father of a misbehaving teenager. He sounds like he's apologizing for his company’s misbehavior. Of course we know it's 'unacceptable'! This could have been spun a lot better than it has been.

Mulallys perception is amazing. The understatement of the year.

 

""These business results are clearly unacceptable," Mulally said. "We are committed to dealing decisively with the fundamental business reality that customer demand is shifting to smaller, more efficient vehicles. Our focused priorities are to restructure aggressively to operate profitably at lower volumes, and to accelerate the development of new, more efficient vehicles that customers really want. "

 

Well I think in Ford's case It is better to just be blunt and say here are the results, don't try to cover it up just report and like Mullaly said hit rock bottom ASAP because it is a lot better feeling when your moving up from rock bottom, is this Ford's rock bottom? that is the main question.

Not yet rock bottom. the new GM pickups are going to put a world of hurt on Ford, unless GM keeps making those awful commercials.

 

I must say the Attack ostriches are quite subdued today.

Edited October 24, 2006 by Bluecon

[Chris D.]

"the new GM pickups are going to put a world of hurt on Ford, unless GM keeps making those awful commercials."

 

GM's new trucks are not going to put "a world of hurt" on Ford. The F-150 is still very fresh, and its reputation is second to none. Also, don't forget that the updated F-150 is right around the corner, with the new V-8 under the hood.

[630land]

"Too many people had an Explorer in the driveway next to a Camry because they wouldn't buy a Taurus."

 

Yep, and fanatics wonder why it is going away. 'Revenue from the Taurus will be gone". More like, they will stop paying to stock pile Hertz and Budget airport lots. The '# 1 car that is forced on people', rather than bought.

[Bluecon]

GM's new trucks are not going to put "a world of hurt" on Ford. The F-150 is still very fresh, and its reputation is second to none. Also, don't forget that the updated F-150 is right around the corner, with the new V-8 under the hood.

We will see the truth in the 4th quarter.

[silvrsvt]

We will see the truth in the 4th quarter.

 

 

So whats that supposed to mean? that the "new" GM pickups are going to be the single handed reason that Ford has a crappy quarter?

 

I don't expect to see Ford to make a profit in the 4th quarter, but they will sure as have less of a loss then what they did this quarter.

 

These are vehicles that launched since the big loss in Q4 of 2005 and vehicles coming within a year.

 

Yukon

Escalade

Suburban

Tahoe

 

The GMT9000's launched Q1 of 2006

 

Edit: I screwed my years up

 

 

Aveo

 

I wouldn't call a new nose exactly a huge improvement over the old model

Edited October 24, 2006 by silvrsvt

[Bluecon]

So whats that supposed to mean? that the "new" GM pickups are going to be the single handed reason that Ford has a crappy quarter?

 

Have you ever happened to notice the percentage that F-series trucks are of total Ford sales?

 

I don't expect to see Ford to make a profit in the 4th quarter, but they will sure as have less of a loss then what they did this quarter.

 

How do you know that?

 

The GMT9000's launched Q1 of 2005, so they don't count.

I wouldn't call a new nose exactly a huge improvement over the old model

Yukon

Escalade

Suburban

Tahoe

 

Launched Q1 of 2005? Wrong again.

[30 OTT 6]

I doubt that anybody was expecting differantly though.

 

- - - - - - - - - -

Retuers Link

 

BusinessWeek Link

 

Ford Press Release Link

 

links added by staff

 

- - - - - - - - - -

 

Hey staff, quit compromising the integrity of this message board. This was a blatant change of my original post. Yes, links were added, but a link was deleted along with part of my original message. What else is being changed that "staff" don't like?

[DCK]

The GMT9000's launched Q1 of 2005, so they don't count.

YOU ARE WRONG! ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

I wouldn't call a new nose exactly a huge improvement over the old model

Please, it got more of an upgrade than the escape mariner are getting but since there fords will just add those in.

[silvrsvt]

YOU ARE WRONG! ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

oops fucked up, ment Q1 2006, forgetting that they launched this past January...got my years screwed up

 

Please, it got more of an upgrade than the escape mariner are getting but since there fords will just add those in.

 

I don't think so, the Escape/Mariner have more changes then the Aveo, not to talk about all new interiors, which the Aveo didn't get.

 

Plus the hatchback Aveo is still carryover.

Edited October 24, 2006 by silvrsvt

[suv_guy_19]

Everyone always seemsto remeber all of GM's brands when there comparing them and somehow forget fords. If youmake the etire Ford Motor Company List of new and upcoming you get:

 

Expedition

Sport Trac

Edge

Five Hundred (New interior, exterior, engine)

Focus

Escape

Freestyle

Super Duty

Possible Crown Victoria

GT500

Shelby GT

Mariner

Montego

possible Grand Marquis

Navigator

MKZ

MKX

Mark LT (Refresh, new options)

MKS

Possible Towncar

CX-7 (since ford onws part of mazda and controls them)

CX-9

upocming 6

Tribute

C30 (Since Ford Owns Volvo)

S80

Upcoming XC50

Upcoming XC70

"New" XC90

Range Rover (Since Ford owns Land Rover)

LR2

XKR (Since Ford Owns Jaguar)

 

And a great deal I ddin't remeber and don't know about. The only reason we don't know as far in the future for Ford as For GM is because they are more secret about it.

[bolita]

Everyone always seemsto remeber all of GM's brands when there comparing them and somehow forget fords. If youmake the etire Ford Motor Company List of new and upcoming you get:

 

Expedition

Sport Trac

Edge

Five Hundred (New interior, exterior, engine)

Focus

Escape

Freestyle

Super Duty

Possible Crown Victoria

GT500

Shelby GT

Mariner

Montego

possible Grand Marquis

Navigator

MKZ

MKX

Mark LT (Refresh, new options)

MKS

Possible Towncar

CX-7 (since ford onws part of mazda and controls them)

CX-9

upocming 6

Tribute

C30 (Since Ford Owns Volvo)

S80

Upcoming XC50

Upcoming XC70

"New" XC90

Range Rover (Since Ford owns Land Rover)

LR2

XKR (Since Ford Owns Jaguar)

 

And a great deal I ddin't remeber and don't know about. The only reason we don't know as far in the future for Ford as For GM is because they are more secret about it.

 

I don't know what time frame you are considering for the list but I am sure that in the short term 12-18 months we will see a B sized car for NA.

[suv_guy_19]

I don't know what time frame you are considering for the list but I am sure that in the short term 12-18 months we will see a B sized car for NA.

 

 

I was just trying to show someone that gm's pcoming product portfolio s no more diverse than fords, and your right, there is the possibility of that along with the new s-type and probably other things

[Guest Sixcav]

Everyone always seemsto remeber all of GM's brands when there comparing them and somehow forget fords. If youmake the etire Ford Motor Company List of new and upcoming you get:

 

Expedition

Sport Trac

Edge

Five Hundred (New interior, exterior, engine)

Focus

Escape

Freestyle

Super Duty

Possible Crown Victoria

GT500

Shelby GT

Mariner

Montego

possible Grand Marquis

Navigator

MKZ

MKX

Mark LT (Refresh, new options)

MKS

Possible Towncar

CX-7 (since ford onws part of mazda and controls them)

CX-9

upocming 6

Tribute

C30 (Since Ford Owns Volvo)

S80

Upcoming XC50

Upcoming XC70

"New" XC90

Range Rover (Since Ford owns Land Rover)

LR2

XKR (Since Ford Owns Jaguar)

 

Take a look at that list. Note the cars listed in bold. Now take a look at the following from Mulally.

 

"We are committed to dealing decisively with the fundamental business reality that customer demand is shifting to smaller, more efficient vehicles. Our focused priorities are to restructure aggressively to operate profitably at lower volumes, and to accelerate the development of new, more efficient vehicles that customers really want. "

[suv_guy_19]

Take a look at that list. Note the cars listed in bold. Now take a look at the following from Mulally.

 

 

Despite that fact, they cannot abandon the markets, and the escape is small, as it can be argued for the cx-7 and the edge for that matter, and there are three b class cars and a b class minivan coming...it takes time to make a quality product which is something ford has been able to do of late. People just don't see to precieve it that way. Thats the real problem.

Edited October 24, 2006 by suv_guy_19

[silvrsvt]

Take a look at that list. Note the cars listed in bold. Now take a look at the following from Mulally.

 

Uh this guy has been in charge for how long now?

[Guest Sixcav]

Uh this guy has been in charge for how long now?

 

Yeah I know he's not been around long at all Silver. My real point was that instead of building more SUV's Ford should have already been focusing on the smaller more efficient car market quite some time ago. It's been the writing on the wall for something like 3 years now. They just refuse to get the point for some reason. It's like "Oh, gas is through the roof, people are buying small cars again, what should we do guys?"

 

"I know lets build a crossover and bank all our hopes on that!"

 

"Yes, I love it!"

 

I mean come on. How many clues do they need before they figure out the SUV craze is over. Building more of them is not a good idea. I don't blame Mulally for it, these are plans that were in the works before his time of course. Hopefully he can turn things around over there. But how many years can Ford bleed out nearly 6 billion a year before they croak. Each time a report like that comes out it only makes it worse for them. Buyers will shy away from a company that's losing that much in sales under the fear that if they do go buy a car from them that in a few years there may well be no Ford motor co. to honor their warranty.

[Noah Harbinger]

But how many years can Ford bleed out nearly 6 billion a year before they croak.

 

Well, last December they had 31 billion in cash, so I'd say until Jan 1, 2011.

 

 

So if you buy a car now, the cash will at least outlast the warranty.

[silvrsvt]

Yeah I know he's not been around long at all Silver. My real point was that instead of building more SUV's Ford should have already been focusing on the smaller more efficient car market quite some time ago. It's been the writing on the wall for something like 3 years now. They just refuse to get the point for some reason. It's like "Oh, gas is through the roof, people are buying small cars again, what should we do guys?"

 

"I know lets build a crossover and bank all our hopes on that!"

 

"Yes, I love it!"

 

I mean come on. How many clues do they need before they figure out the SUV craze is over. Building more of them is not a good idea. I don't blame Mulally for it, these are plans that were in the works before his time of course. Hopefully he can turn things around over there. But how many years can Ford bleed out nearly 6 billion a year before they croak. Each time a report like that comes out it only makes it worse for them. Buyers will shy away from a company that's losing that much in sales under the fear that if they do go buy a car from them that in a few years there may well be no Ford motor co. to honor their warranty.

 

 

How many small cars will Ford sell? 80K if they are lucky (roughly the yearly Aveo sales) or do you build 100K Edges that make a profit and get better gas mileage then out going SUV's? People aren't going to drop getting bigger cars unless gas prices are near the $4-5 dollar mark. People will still pay the money to drive a bigger car if they can afford the gas. SUV sales aren't going to be what they where, but their is still a market for them and a profitible one. The CUV isn't a SUV, even though they look "almost" the same. People who buy Explorers/Expeditions will look at getting a Freestyle/"Fairlane"/Edge/Escape if gas prices are a problem

 

Going back to cars...what else do you want Ford to do? They have a large car thats less then 4 years old getting a major refresh next spring/summer, a Mid-sized Sedan thats less then 18 months old that has AWD that the Camary and Accord don't offer, and the Focus will get a major redo next fall and offers the same or better MPG then most B cars out there. The B lineup is a hole, but I'd rather see Ford do it right then do it half assed and cause more problems.