You Gotta Wonder if Ford Execs Have Seen This

[Guest Sixcav]

Don't get mad it me guy's, I'm just the messenger. Of course the message in this particular video is almost word for word the sort of things I've been saying here for awhile. Some others too. Finally I also agree with the dealer they interviewed near the end. Plenty of blame to go around when it came to the death of the Taurus.

 

[Hellcat_F6F]

Ford deserves every bit of heat it's taking for letting the Taurus die. It has to rank with the most idiotic, assanine things any car company has ever done..shooting themselves in the foot. Imagine how this must look to car buyers...all they see about Ford are about "way forward" announcements that are just cut, cut and more cut..close this plant, close that plant, cancel this program, cancel that one...allude to supposed future products that nobody knows about (because they don't exist), and the death of the Taurus. Not exactly confidence inspring.

[Footballfan]

Ford deserves every bit of heat it's taking for letting the Taurus die. It has to rank with the most idiotic, assanine things any car company has ever done..shooting themselves in the foot. Imagine how this must look to car buyers...all they see about Ford are about "way forward" announcements that are just cut, cut and more cut..close this plant, close that plant, cancel this program, cancel that one...allude to supposed future products that nobody knows about (because they don't exist), and the death of the Taurus. Not exactly confidence inspring.

 

Well said. There is an old saying "talk is cheap." Having a male model as your President, and cute slogans like "the Way Forward" and "Bold Moves" is a joke. You bring out the product first, then have your PR campaigns. Nearly a year after the first of two restructurings, this company is in no better shape.

[WC-MAN]

Has anything changed? Ford crrently has a class beating large sedan withone critical weakness, its underpowered. Yet this has been said since the first model appeared and the issue has not been addressed. The whole thing is rediculous. The American sedan buyer is NOT Hertz rent-a-car. They actually WANT something for their money.

 

The most telling thing on the interview is the word "cost cutting". Example: The Japanese and Koreans have finally forced Ford to put head curtain airbags in their cars. The MINUTE that customers started to demand that type of thing, Ford should have been first to market with and then touted their cars as having something EXTRA that nobody else offered.

 

The extent of Ford's ineptitude is easy to illustrate. Lets go back to 1974. Now imagine that Ford poured all of its development dollars into the Mavrick, Pinto, and Elite (Subcompacts and Personal Luxury Coupes were the SUV's of the 1970's) while not updating the LTD or Torino for a decade, cancelling the Mustang, and telling customers who come to their lot looking for big cars to just buy Mavrick instead, after all, its the new "Big Car".

 

I know 40 year Ford customers who are currently driving toyota's because Ford's cars got so bad.

[Guest Sixcav]

Has anything changed? Ford crrently has a class beating large sedan withone critical weakness, its underpowered.

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.

 

The only thing that's not revolutionary is the styling. Ford has been burned pretty badly by the radically-styled cars, and it shows. The Five Hundred is too conservative for me. I mean, did they have to use so much chrome?"

 

http://cars.about.com/od/2005/fr/05_500awd.htm

 

As soon as you see the Five Hundred, you can tell that it's an old man's car, perfectly practical yet fundamentally uninspiring. It's a huge automobile, like one of those wacky, oversized cars of the 1940s that our own Bruce McCall draws so frequently, a vision of an impossibly bland America. Unfortunately, the Five Hundred doesn't have the spark of visual imagination that you see in McCall's illustrations, and it looks as if someone left a Volkswagen Passat in the summer sun until every bit of life had been bleached out of it. The interior is cheerless, like a bad day in Dearborn, even if the materials and quality are a step above those of its domestic competition.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0410_...d/interior.html

 

The Five Hundred and the Avalon have inoffensive (read: boring) appearances that may make them popular with less-adventurous buyers. We find their conservative approaches largely uninspiring, however. The Avalon had a bit of coolness to its jagged rear-end lines and graphite-colored wheels, but our interest peaked there. Ford has begun offering meaner grille inserts for the Five Hundred to help add some flavor to the over-rounded shape, but it still falls short of distinction in our eyes.

 

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0507_avalon_comparo/

 

This is what is really driving customers away from the 500 folks. It's ugly. It needs a redesign. From a technological point of view the car is s smash hit. They could re-tune the 3.0 V6 if they wanted to and bump the hp up to 230 hp easily and it would be well within range of the segment. The 3.5 will be a fine sub for it. But trust me, the motor is not what is driving buyers away from this car. It's the narcoleptic design that is. It needs a sheet metal redesign in the worst way, some attention to detail in the interior and that's all. Then it would be a stellar car.

[taxman100]

What's driving people away from the Five Hundred is the poor engine, the goofy CVT transmission, and the fact that, while it is very boring looking, it doesn't look like an American sedan. Also, a lot of people know it is just a reworked Volvo - what pride is there in owning something like that?

 

I love my Grand Marquis, but have absolutely no interest in a Five Hundred. If the Panther goes away, a Five Hundred will not be replacing it in my garage, no matter what new engine it may have under the hood.

 

I'm just speaking for myself - but I'm not exactly mainstream middle class - they now buy Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, which I won't do.

[ebritt]

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.

 

 

 

http://cars.about.com/od/2005/fr/05_500awd.htm

 

 

 

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0410_...d/interior.html

 

 

 

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0507_avalon_comparo/

 

This is what is really driving customers away from the 500 folks. It's ugly. It needs a redesign. From a technological point of view the car is s smash hit. They could re-tune the 3.0 V6 if they wanted to and bump the hp up to 230 hp easily and it would be well within range of the segment. The 3.5 will be a fine sub for it. But trust me, the motor is not what is driving buyers away from this car. It's the narcoleptic design that is. It needs a sheet metal redesign in the worst way, some attention to detail in the interior and that's all. Then it would be a stellar car.

hat's pretty much what I have said for the last 6 months The 500 is BORING!!! But if you put a Honda emblem on the front it would be "the most wonderful car ever made"! And retards would buy it just because of the logo.

[ZanatWork]

One more time, for those determined to miss it:

 

 

The Taurus was essentially put to death a decade back, when its styling suddenly was horrid and the car had LESS space in some dimensions than the car it replaced.

 

The funeral and wake were over by the time Clinton got re-elected. The was synonymous with 'mediocrity" by 2000, and practiclaly everyone responsible is gone from Ford.

 

Hence, hating out on Ford today for mistakes then is to KNOWINGLY have really bad aim.

 

I'm hoping-dearly-that the D3 cars get what they need to get the reviews I feel they deserve. I've never seen a car get so much abuse for being "boring"...if it's so boring, why all the impassioned hatred for it? Car mags call practically EVERY mainstram sedan boring...excepting sport models and, miraculously, the Fusion.

 

For those complaining about the Five Hundred's powerplant, explain what else should have been put it. By the way, no V8s in the corporate collection would fit, except for the too-costly YamaVolvo motor. The 3.5 wasn't ready. On the other hand, the Taurus had been a retail flop for many years already, the Fusion was a ways off...something had to get out there, and it had to use existing components.

 

Foresight would have saved the situation. Neither Trotman or Nasser wanted to look at anything but high-profit luxury cars and trucks/suvs, so no new mainstream cars or car powertrains got any priority. This is pretty well-known.

 

The new motors and upcoming models should go a long way toward undoing the mistakes from Alex and Jac...but dumb peole everywhere will hack on the guys actually fixing things. So much for the information age.

[Guest Sixcav]

There's no doubt that '96 redesign that made the Taurus so unappealing was a bad mistake. Yes they should have gone to work immediately working on a new body style that didn't look anything like it. They didn't. They didn't do anything with it because by that time the SUV thing was in full swing and Ford was convinced that the Explorer was the new American sedan. So much for that.

 

Now as for the 500 man, I'm sorry that body style is boring. It's not the only boring sedan on the market to be sure. But we aren't talking about them right now. We are talking about the 500 and what we believe will work to get it selling. The most popular sedans on the market have a sport like appearance. That's no secret, performance sedans have been the preferred sedan style for a long time now even if they only appear to be performance sedans. I don't even think it's because most buyers of them really wanted a performance sedan more than they just didn't want a boring old family truckster you know. You take some guy in his late 20's / early 30's with a wife and 2 kids who needs a sedan because of family obligations right? Well the guy isn't dead, he still wants some excitement in his life right? He doesn't want that car that just screams "ordinary average guy". But a sporty sedan? Yeah, that meets his family needs and his desire to just be a guy and have a cool ass car too. That's just normal. By the way, women aren't that different with regard to this. Girls don't want a car that just screams "middle aged soccer mom!!". They want a nice car that says, "Yeah, I'm a mom, but I'm still a kick ass chick too." Now you take a look at the 500 and everything about that body style just makes you want to chug a can of Ensure man. Look if Ford had another sedan or two that were selling really well and generating some revenue then by all means they could make a car that appeals to the 65 and older crowd. But right now they don't and they need cars that have the best chance of selling to the most people and that means they need to drop the geriatric design and get hip.

[156n3rd]

My '92 L wagon is rated at 140 hp. The Vulcan still purrs at over 148g's. It was never underpowered when the car was/is used as it is intended. When driving the Taurus I always felt that the car was well built. It was designed right and Ford made their money with it until they realized that they didn't know how to follow up with a winner.

[johnnyb82]

I still don't understand why people hate the 1996 redesign so much. Yeah it was tough to get used to, But I think it can look very sleek in the right color.

[marc-o]

hat's pretty much what I have said for the last 6 months The 500 is BORING!!! But if you put a Honda emblem on the front it would be "the most wonderful car ever made"! And retards would buy it just because of the logo.

 

While I agree the main problem with the 500 is that its boring, I don't think its sales would double if there was a Honda badge on it - the current Accord is probably the ugliest generation ever, even after a partial redesign, and it's sales are down significantly over the last model.

 

Most people don't want to be seen in an ugly car and most people don't want to buy what they hear is a "boring" car. Imports aren't immune to ugliness, although since domestics have more of a perception gap, styling is even more important.

[WC-MAN]

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.

 

I'm one of the people who buy this car. Wife, 2 kids, 34, and my next car has to be big enough for a growing family. You'd be SURPRISED how important power is. Dodge sells Chargers based on that fact alone. It certainly isn't the high dollar interior or usable design. Sure, when it appeared you could ecuse it, but by now it should have more power available.

 

I disagree with the "sporty" character of "popular" sedans. That'd be the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and maybe the Chevy Impala, none of which are very sporty. I understand why Ford would err on the side of catuion, look at the Camry. After years of being a boring car that would make me yawn if I owned one, its now the car that I'd be embarassed to be seen in. Why did it need a big Pontiac schnoz?

 

Fusion is the example to follow. They need their cars to be like it. Usable, but sporty.

[Guest Sixcav]

The Accord, Camry and Impala are all far more sporty in appearance than the 500. If Ford even took it to that level it would be a vast improvement. By the way, I don't think the Charger outsells any of them. Additionally the Fusion is every bit as sporty as any of those you listed. Look I'm not talking about making a 4 door Porsche here, but you think the 500 body is selling well right now or what?

[cip]

Personally I don't think the fact that the 3.0 V6 is underpowered as compared to the rest of the segment is that big an issue to people who buy these kinds of cars. Most people don't buy a family sedan with the notion of drag racing their neighbor Bob to the corner market you know. What I think is the big problem with the 500 is the way it looks. It's down right boring. I'm not alone in that point of view either.

http://cars.about.com/od/2005/fr/05_500awd.htm

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0410_...d/interior.html

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/0507_avalon_comparo/

 

This is what is really driving customers away from the 500 folks. It's ugly. It needs a redesign. From a technological point of view the car is s smash hit. They could re-tune the 3.0 V6 if they wanted to and bump the hp up to 230 hp easily and it would be well within range of the segment. The 3.5 will be a fine sub for it. But trust me, the motor is not what is driving buyers away from this car. It's the narcoleptic design that is. It needs a sheet metal redesign in the worst way, some attention to detail in the interior and that's all. Then it would be a stellar car.

[DearbornDerek]

O.K. I'm not going to try and start an argument....but has any one that is saying the 500 is underpowered even drove one? I got mine back in August and have NO complaints about power. I would not call it boring...average maybe. The sad thing is that when my friends and co-workers see the car thier reaction is "that's a 500? wow it's better looking than I heard, how come thier not selling?" This car has everything you need...people just don't know about it. The sad thing is I almost did not get the 500. I did not really consider it because of the negative talk about it in here. All of this coming from someone that prefers a good truck to a car any day. My advice is to ignore ALL of the people talking crap about this car because they must not have ever been in one. Hell, I've got to fight the wife about who is going to drive it.

[cip]

You guys bitchin' about the 500 are nuts. Sure it isn't a Panther body but it has a much room inside and feels a lot more solid. I know, I've driven them all. The 3.0 isn't a hi-po engine but it gets the job done with decent mileage and good performance. A 427 Galaxie it's not!! Complain about the CVT, you don't know what you're talking about. It's a good trans and better than the 6 spped. Too big? you've got to be kidding. There is plenty of room but the car NEVER feels big. It handles and stops well, is quiet as a mouse, and the fit and finish on the 2 I had was almost perfect. Ugly? maybe but so is the Avalon and Camry (except for the newest ones)but no one complains about them. I wish Ford updated the styling a lot sooner than next year. John DeLorean said you can sell a young mans car to an old guy but not the other way around. I wish Ford would take his advice.

[630land]

OK, the main reason the 500 is sacring some buyers off, it is that is is a Full Sized car with a Full sized price. They expect a $17K price tag and scream, "What 25K$, no way". The Fusion should have came out first, and then the 500 as a step up.

 

 

It is not a mid sized car, it has more room than a Vic. But people are told by the media it's a "Taurus replacement". {but the same media doesn't call the Avalon a 'mid size'} Alan Mulally is impressed with it and wants to improve it, so it is not going anywhere. Best if it was gaven the name Galaxie 500.

Edited October 30, 2006 by 630land

[jpd80]

While Fusion is perfect for its market slot, the existance of 500 and Crown Victoria along side each other confuses people. Ford needs a platform that transcends all of the FWD/RWD/AWD markets and has wheelbase variants to include the town car. Instead of developing towards a common platform, Ford have been stuck in neutral with the now dated Crown Victoria. While the 500 eclipses the cabin dimensions, it repels CV buyers because its FWD and styled differently. A smarter move would have been to develop a RWD V8 variant of the 500 and call it "Crown Victoria", heck throw it on a BOF if that's what the market wants. That would allow two wheelbases longer than 500.

[Hemiman]

You guys bitchin' about the 500 are nuts. Sure it isn't a Panther body but it has a much room inside and feels a lot more solid. I know, I've driven them all. The 3.0 isn't a hi-po engine but it gets the job done with decent mileage and good performance. A 427 Galaxie it's not!! Complain about the CVT, you don't know what you're talking about. It's a good trans and better than the 6 spped. Too big? you've got to be kidding. There is plenty of room but the car NEVER feels big. It handles and stops well, is quiet as a mouse, and the fit and finish on the 2 I had was almost perfect. Ugly? maybe but so is the Avalon and Camry (except for the newest ones)but no one complains about them. I wish Ford updated the styling a lot sooner than next year. John DeLorean said you can sell a young mans car to an old guy but not the other way around. I wish Ford would take his advice.

 

 

I've driven them. Tried to get my Dad to buy one. It is not quiet as a mouse. The 3.0 has to wind up to get the mass of the car moving, and it IS loud under load. I think the engineering is top notch but the short commings, UGLY & UNDER POWERED, eclipse the greatness of the platform.

 

427 Galaxie it's not, is correct. 240 six Galaxie is more like it. But keep in mind, that same Galaxie that could be had with the 240 six or 427 2X4bbl was also avalible with a 289, 3 different 390's, & two 428's. HP ranged from 155 for the six to 425 for the 427. (1967 model yr.)

 

Ford really fumbled the ball, (about ten yards fron the goal line) on this one, and has been aginizingly slow in addressing the issues.

 

PS. My Dad bought a Buick

Edited October 30, 2006 by Hemiman

[Walt]

Also, a lot of people know it is just a reworked Volvo - what pride is there in owning something like that?

 

I don't know... to me that would be a "plus". Well, at least if safety was near the top of your "must have" list.

[630land]

My dad bought a Buick too. But it is not any RWD muscle car that people think 'everyone' wants to buy.

 

Also, this whole crying over the Taurus is old, old, old. They expect complete govermental control of the car biz, with banned imports, fixed prices, and subsidized rental car sales.

 

It's like an article in Detroit News. Time to grow up and not expect 'entitilement' since you shwo up and amke lame ass 20 year old designed cars for rentals and used car auctions.

 

I couldn't care less that some laid off overpaid autoworker now has to sell his boat or project car. While teachers are underpaid, and cops die every day. Go learn about the real world & get a real job

[lukemullen]

For years the auto press harped on the American sedan as relying too much on styling and not enough on substance. The '96 Taurus was a perfect example of function following form. Whether you hated it or not, it at least had styling, unlike the mid-90s Accords, Maximas, and Camrys. But the auto press concentrated on the lack of rear seat room and the sloping trunk lid that cut into cargo space. Fast forward to the release of the Five Hundred, a car that by any measure should be exactly the type of car a mainstream sedan should be. Safe, great room, made with quality materials, assembled well, reasonably good performance, a variety of features, and a superb value. But look what happened; the auto press concentrated on conservative styling instead of the goodness beneith the skin, and the car is going the way of the Taurus in the late 90s. There really does seem to be a strong bias in the press against American vehicles, and while it may not be the main reason for the stigma many people place on American vehicles, the press it at least exacerbating the situation.

[laserwizard]

Pardon me if I have missed something by not watching the video. I find the remarks here far more illustrative than what anyone else could bring to the table - afterall, we are people who bleed Ford blue....

 

I'm a lifelong Ford owner, son of a lifelong Ford owner, and have nothing to complain about with regard to Ford. My dad has put over 250,000 miles on his second Ford pickup (he's had three: a 1975, a 1990, and a 1994 - the 1990 he didn't like the color after four years and traded). Mom has had a 1973 Torino station wagon with 175,000 miles on it and traded for a 1989 T-Bird that had 90,000 miles before she bought a 2005 Focus Wagon - something with better gas mileage and "not so much car").

 

Perhaps I'm easily satisfied. My 1997 Ford Escort, built in August of 1996, has given me 118,000 miles of constant performance and only has seen the inside of a garage for oil changes, tire rotation and changes, and with brake work. Had this car not worn a blue oval on the front, it would have had all the trappings of a Honda.

 

I just don't get why Fords don't sell as well as they used to. I'd buy another Escort just like the one I have now in a heartbeat if it were sold today. I love my car and don't need another and that is why I'm not out shopping for my seventh Ford. This car is the best one I've ever owned (though I'd loved to have seen my old 1969 Mustang when it was new - but I digress).

 

When I sit in Toyotas and Hondas, I am not impressed. These vehicles are not comfortable for me to sit in even as a six foot tall man in his forties. GM cars have a malady of problems with regard to their dashboards intruding where my right knee wants to occupy.

 

I just don't get it.

 

With regard to the Taurus, I'm baffled at Ford for taking the system it had to create it in the first place - the benchmarking of the best in class and using all their features in one car - and not doing that with the next generation. I never liked the ovoid Taurus though I had a relative who got several hundred thousand miles of Honda-like service from one. It is perplexing that Ford spends so much time keeping the F-150 as the best in class (hands down, game over), but does so little to make its cars absolutely superb.

 

The Fusion is a nice step in the right direction and I have friends who own Five Hundreds who have no complaints about underpower or blandness - but then again, they are people who look for transportation, not flim flam. I'm impressed with the Edge and cannot wait to sit in one and to take one for a test drive.

 

There is no way in hades that I'll ever buy a Honda or Toyota (or a Chevrolet or a Dodge....) - Ford has earned another sale from me. I'm extremely happy that the gentleman from Boeing is now running Ford and that he has a clue as to what needs to be done. I'm also impressed with Mark Fields who also seems to have a clue - but those boneheads in the Nasser era really sold Ford down the road least chosen and now we know why no one goes there - it is a dead end.

 

I have every faith that Ford is turning around and that perhaps the Taurus was too far gone, neglected like a horse put out to pasture, to be resurrected with some meaning. And while the early Tauri were truly good in their day, they weren't perfect with engine maladies of their own. And perhaps today's Ford leaders, having to face the shock of how far they've slipped in so little time, will come to realize that Ford buyers aren't that much different from Toyota ones (though no one could be as obtuse and egotistical and plain nasty as Honda ones). And for all of the whining of the success of the Camry - just remember how awful that car used to be in its first and second iterations and how far it has come in the two plus decades of its lifespan. Perhaps we should afford Ford the same room to improve its cars as Toyota was given when it went from tin can to overhyped aluminum cans.

[Kev-Mo]

Monday morning quarterbacks!

 

The very same people who would NEVER buy or recommend a Taurus, are critical of Ford ford abandoning it.

 

The Taurus would never be cool again, a victim of it's own success, it became the everyday car that nobody wanted anymore. Nobody wants what everyone has already had.

 

Move forward with a new 500 and the tremendous potential of the Fusion (along with wagon versions of both) and get over the Taurus.