KYSkipper Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I'm one of the poor unlucky/stupid soles to have purchased one of your poorly designed 2004 F250 6.0 PDS trucks. The year I bought that truck, I bought 2 new Ford vehicles. A 2003 Expedition and the 04 F250. In case you are wondering, close to $80,000 worth of new Ford Vehicles. The 2004 F250 has been a piece of junk and evidently isn't fixable. I'm dang glad I kept my 1995 F250 Powerstroke so I'd have something to drive when my new vehicle is in the shop. Fact is, on these 6.0 trucks, Ford ought to include a good used 15 year old Diesel with the purchase so people would have a truck to drive instead of the loaner Taurus they give you at the dealer when they are contemplating how to fix this misengineered pile of metal. That engine has got to be one of the poorest designed diesels Ford has ever used in a pickup truck. You'd have to go way back to when they converted a 6.9L backhoe engine to come up with something worse, with less power, and less reliability. There have been what? 25 computer reflashes on this pile of junk, 6 different EGR valve designs, injector problems, turbo problems, leaking gasket problems, the list is long. Oh, they can fix it, and make it run right for a few weeks, then it starts going down hill again. The first thing you notice is your fuel milage goes from 18 mpg to about 13 mpg. Then you notice it won't pull. You start gearing down on hills you never geared down on before. Finally one day your run to town in your old 1995 model and realize just how sorry the new truck is. So you take it back to the dealer. The process repeats, and Ford says my truck is running normally. Bull Hooey. If they call that normal, they've got a serious misunderstanding of Normal. The sideways under the frame fuel filter system is about as assinine as it gets for engineering. There's no way to change that thing without dumping fuel all over yourself and the ground. Further, you can't drain the water without making a mess of you, the truck, and your driveway. Why in hell can't Ford leave well enough alone. Navistar didn't design that system that way. The Navistar design is the same as the one on the old 7.3 Powerstrokes. It's on top of the motor and the water drain is a lever that can be operated wearing a suit and tie without getting dirty crawling around under the truck. Every other diesel has their fuel filter and water separator on top and is a no mess thing to change and drain. Surely, Ford's engineers could have done better than that. There's that dang electronic gas pedal with the delay in it. Any of you all ever drove a manual shift truck with a delay in the pedal? You ought to try it sometime. I wonder why the clutch is slipping on mine at 39,000 miles? Could it be from having to ride it because you can't let it out fully while waiting for the computerized gas pedal to GO. My 1995 model has the clutch in it that it came with, so don't tell me I can't drive. It's the piss poor idea and design of the go button that is causing that problem. There's that idiotic $105 air filter that takes 40 minutes to change. What exactly was wrong with the $20 air filter like my 1995 model has? It can be changed in 5 minutes with no tools and no fuss and is a heck of a lot cheaper to replace. Basically, the deal is this. I paid $40,000 for a truck. Now, I'm stuck with it short of taking a heavy loss on it because by now everyone on the planet knows that these trucks aren't worth a damn and nobody will buy it or trade for it. Nobody wants one. Nobody wants the problems this truck has. Personally, I don't see how Ford sells the first new F250 these days. It looks like more people would figure out what kind of turd these new trucks were. Oh, I forgot, the installed that new option of a brake box in the newer ones. Hmm, you can buy those things for $19.95 at the camper place and install one in about 15 minutes. Real good guys. You all spent untold hours building a $19.95 gadget into the trucks but haven't yet figured out how to get the engine to run. Can I call and talk to someone at Ford? Hell no. Nobody is evidently allowed to do that. I called the number in the manual. I got Boobla Boobla somewhere in India who connected me with my dealer's service manager. Big whoopie. I know where to find him. He sees me on a bi weekly basis. I think ole Bill Ford ought to personally send every F250 6.0 owner a personal apology for their failure to deliver the product they promised. Yes, they promised a lot. "The new 6.0 Liter Powerstroke has more horsepower and more torque than any diesel we've ever offered" Liar. You wanna put the 95 and the 04 together and see what happens? Skip Walden Corbin, KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98shotoy11 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I work at a dealership and I can tell you that these engines are JUNK!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Have you tried the Lemon Law? That's exactly what I was thinking. Ford just about set a record for buy-backs of these early 6.0 diesel engines before they decided to try to fix them. Surely there is a way to work with the dealer to get you into something better. Of course, I'm not sure a current 6.0 is necessarily better either, but I would sure be pushing for a decent deal on one. Good luck anyway and I for one do not blame you for trying to vent your situation. Gosh - Ford finally gets some of their cars really competitive and look what they do to what is probably their most loyal owner group - diesel truck owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Selby Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Ford owes you an apology? I'd say they owe you a new truck. I also enjoyed calling the 1-800 customer service line, I was at a loss for words while dealing with the incompetence of these clowns. From what I can tell they get paid to say "We are sorry but we can't help, you must take this up with the dealer" knowing damn well your calling them because the the dealer was no help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheri/ck Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Ford owes you an apology? I'd say they owe you a new truck. I also enjoyed calling the 1-800 customer service line, I was at a loss for words while dealing with the incompetence of these clowns. From what I can tell they get paid to say "We are sorry but we can't help, you must take this up with the dealer" knowing damn well your calling them because the the dealer was no help. Surely arbitration is still an option? Hope you don't have to hire a lawyer to do it. I know very little about diesels other than watching this latest Ford debacle, but it is my understanding that the Ford diesels still carry a 100,000 mile warranty. Hopefully everything you have had said is documented. If nothing else, I would be looking into arbitration. There is no reason why you should pay for such an expensive vehicle, have it untradeable and have to eat that loss. It is rumored that the latest 6.0 models are mostly reliable. Why not go for one, make Ford pay for most of it and then trade for the Dodge or Chevy or whatever down the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford4v429 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Yes Fords customer service hotline is a sad joke...Suggestion- PM 'Kzinti' in here and see if he could have a factory contact get ahold of you...theres a lot of people that would try to help if they were ever allowed to- but the current system gets you someone on the phone that is powerless to do anything more than beat up your dealer...When my first Mustang GT got smacked up when the careless carhauler was dropping it off, I called to try to get somebody to try to get an ok for them to sell me the car that day, I'd bring itr back later for repairs(I was obsessed, and didnt want to wait...), she put me on hold and said very nicely she would try to get ahold of someone higher up to get this straightened out right away...she proceded to call my sister-in-law(dealer) on the other line to beat her up 'for a number' to knock off the price. Priceless...My sister in law was getting tired of the car business anyway, and just happened to turn in her resignation that same day- oh yeah it was about as f'd up a day as I could ever imagine...luckily I didn't know she'd turned in her res. that day or I'd have flipped out...the car getting smashed was best thing that ever happened to me, as it had become an obsession, fueled by the agony of dealer allocation, but had I gotten that car I'd have been too overprotective to ever get it wet...the replacements only got a few hundred miles on it, but its been wet/salty, and its a ball to drive- a helluva car, but just a car- as it should be. the only thing worse than fords customer service is their dealer support. Currently they see the dealer as the 'customer' and the customer as 'somebody elses problem', and it's going to destroy them. I hope in the restructuring that some of the higherups get to make some dramatic changes in the system, as I know personally of at least 2 guys at VP levels that have helped a couple lowly buyers out when no one else thru 'normal channels' could...there's a lot of bios on fords site with names of some higher ups, and email aint hard to figure out...3 days after the carhauler mess I gave up called the dealer and said 'just forget it', let go of the obsession and finally felt normal again after 3 months of stressing over this must have car, wasnt much later regional guy called me and said VP called him and said 'fix this' and he was extremely helpful and did everything he said in the timeframe he said(although my warranty papers still havent shown up yet), my order was back on, and everything worked out OK...what still irks me, was when my salesman had called various folks at ford, I was in his office and asked him to ask them if I could talk to them directly for a second- 3 times tried, got no takers...why is it against the rules for Ford to just talk to a customer??? because current structure says dealer is their customer, end of story. There has to be a line somewhere where responsibility lays, but nothing wrong with a little discussion to at least let a customer know that someone at Ford is on the case and trying to do SOMETHING...the phone folks currently have no info, no power to suggest anything, just read the sympathy script and call the dealer... I know the good folks at ford are concerned with trying to help- hey its their reputation/future on the line if a customer feels like theyve been wronged, but the current structure is simply tying the hands of everyone, requiring the dealer to fix things that all too often is out of their control, and really not their responsibility. The frustration to the ACTUAL customer is totally uncalled for. Had it not been for Kzinti's updates I'd have cancelled that mustang order about 6 weeks into it and never bought another new ford. Just having someone at Ford that would even TRY to give info was super...made the 'wait' bearable, as at least you had an answer and knew where you stood- simple communication is key. I just hope and pray that the restructuring gives the 'good guys' the authority to revamp the system to ANYTHING customer friendly and reasonable to the dealers...a good start would be to get a guy like Kzinti involved in the ground-up reforming of the current outdated system that often leaves a upset customer 'upset' for long enough to help toyota or others lure them in next time. Heck, I'd love for my kids to have the good fortune of working for a big american company like Ford someday, but the current system structure is not helping Ford's future one bit- no matter how good the product may be- customer service needs to pull their weight just as much or more so than engineering/design/manufacturing for them to regain ground. The new Mustang GT is the most fun I've ever had behind the wheel, and I thank everyone at Ford that had a hand in putting it together, but mostly Kzinti- if not for him I never woulda had a chance to even know what I woulda missed...I'd have bailed out after about the 1,000th more recent southern order to cut in front of mine...but getting allocation info, having someone that could find out info and help in understanding the process made it almost OK. Ford DESPERATELY needs to tear down the current customer/factory brickwall... Sorry to hear of all the troubles with your truck, Personally I would guess that IF you could actually talk to someone with authority to do something about it, they might save the possibility of another new ford for you someday- to me simply being able to ASK someone to look into an issue would be good enough to pacify me for a while, versus not EVER being even able to express a concern over such a huge investment as a new vehicle making the blood boil quite quickly... Like I said, ask Kzinti, perhaps he could ask someone to at least talk to you- and I hope someone in Ford's engineering takes note about your fuel filter/drain comment- and that its GOOD constructive criticism that could improve their product- this is a good thing for them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 the only thing worse than fords customer service is their dealer support. Currently they see the dealer as the 'customer' and the customer as 'somebody elses problem', and it's going to destroy them. ....................... I just hope and pray that the restructuring gives the 'good guys' the authority to revamp the system to ANYTHING customer friendly and reasonable to the dealers Well said Not only that but we are a captive customer with no option except to follow Fords polices and procedures. Imagine a customer driving to the dealership where he/she bought their NEW Ford requesting somebody look at it because it shifts funny. The dealership employee takes a short drive with the customer and agrees something’s wrong and gives the customer a loaner. Then the tech gets the vehicle puts it on the hoist and removes the transmission pan, Lo and behold it’s full of metal. Now he’s rebuilt trannys before and knows this one needs to be replaced But NO first he has to call the tech hotline for approval but tech hotline says tear it down and do a cost analysts. So the tech has to take it apart go to the parts department with a list of all the components required to repair it. Then he has to also find out from the parts department how much an exchange transmission cost so he can call the tech hotline back and once again. Because Ford wants the vehicles transmission repaired or replaced as cheaply as possible and the dealership cannot order a replacement without a tech hotline approval. And of course the tech has to put the junk tranny back together in order to return the core because Ford won’t accept a disassembled core. Lots of time wasted when all the customer wants is their NEW vehicle back. The customer has to wait longer, lots of dealer employees are doing what they perceive as an effort in futility and Ford saves no money during the repair. All Ford managed to do was upset the customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTISFORDSUCKS Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 KYSkipper: Feel free to visit: http://www.otisfordsucks.com Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danglin Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I own a 2004 F250 6.0 with a torqshift and have only had a romping problem that was solved with a reflash. I have been very satisfied with my truck. I do agree about the poor fuel filter and drain design. Also, it takes two filters and costs about $75.00! Did not realize the Air Filter was so expensive! Hopefully they will do much better with the new 6.9 in the Next SD. Good Luck with Yours KYSkipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danglin Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 6.9? I thought it was gonna be a 6.4? ME Wrong, You Right! 6.4 Litre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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