T'Cal

T, on 17 May 2010 - 08:30 AM, said: Ford has yet to hit the mark with its crossovers. The Freestyle/Taurus X and Flex have fallen way short of sales projections. Let's hope the Explorer hits the mark and the public buys it. I didn't mention the Edge. It's a five passenger SUV that competes in a completely different niche of the market. As for the Freestyle and Taurus X, they failed and the Flex is not selling as well as projected. I don't take any pleasure in saying that but it is true. The new Explorer will be more truck-like (or at least look more truck-like) than the Freestyle and Taurus X that it's to be based on. That will likely help it in sales. I like what I've seen and read about it.

For those of you who have owned and driven Rangers (not me), would you be opposed to a FWD/AWD replacement based on the Escape or new Explorer?

The 8 passenger lambdas have tall, squarish full width back rests for the second and third rows making me feel like I'm short and sitting on the floor. Not good.

I'm looking forward to the Explorer Police Interceptor. With its Taurus PI platform, compared to the Tahoe 9C1 (the only other pursuit-rated SUV) the AWD Explorer PI should prove much less expensive, much more nimble, much more fuel efficient, and much cheaper to maintain. Ford has yet to hit the mark with its crossovers. The Freestyle/Taurus X and Flex have fallen way short of sales projections. Let's hope the Explorer hits the mark and the public buys it.

Ford's made a lot of modifications to this car to make it a PI. One more I hope they'll consider is replacing the useless tachometer with a pair of gauges that match the coolant temp gauge and fuel gauge on the right. A voltmeter and an oil pressure gauge would be quite useful. As for the training question, much of the training cops do addresses low frequency/high risk actions such as use of force (proper use of pepper spray, Tasers, hand guns, long guns, etc.) and pursuit driving. Cops get sued all the time for the most inane things, but good training done regularly prevents frivolous law suits or at least success for the plaintiffs. No training = expensive law suits and settlements.

I sat in both at the Chicago Auto Show and walked away thoroughly impressed by the Ford and deeply disappointed by the Lincoln. The Flex had gobs more room overall in the second and third rows. Headroom was horrible in the MKT. I saw no advantage in buying the Lincoln. I'm not much for the name Flex, but it is the most appealing people mover as far as I'm concerned. I got claustrophobic in the GM lambda models.

I'm looking forward to seeing not only the regular production Explorer, but also the Police Interceptor model. I'll bet it does very well in Police fleet sales especially if its price is similar to that of the Taurus, which shares its platform. The only other pursuit rated SUV available for law enforcement is the costly, heavy, gas-sucking Tahoe and that comes only as RWD. An AWD Explorer with the base V6 (likely to have 285hp by the time it comes out) will provide a great alternative not only to the Tahoe but to a regular police sedan.

Sorry! Double post.

I know it's old as dirt but the Panther platform is also reliable as dirt. I wish they had updated the CVPI/GM/TC with the Mustang's 3V 4.6L V8 and maybe even the 4.0 V6. Certainly, 2011 models of the Panther cars would've benefited greatly from the Mustang's new 6 speed automatic and the 305 HP 3.7L V6 and 412 HP 5.0L V8. During a heavy revision of these cars, perhaps an IRS would've made it that could've been shared with at least the SVT Shelby Cobra.

Build the coupe!!

Ford, hire this man!!

This is an apples and oranges comparison for me. I love the new Mustang and wish I could buy a convertible today. These new engines amaze me with their power, sound, and fuel economy. Hell, I'd probably get the V6 model. How do you beat 13 second quarter miles AND 31 MPG?? Simply amazing. I owned four new Mustang 5.0s in the 80's and those felt fast but I doubt any of them cracked into the 14 second range. As for the BMW, and in particular the 3 series, I too get the "pretentious" vibe every time I see one on the road. I still see "80's Yuppie" even 20+ years later.

I'll bet the farm that the Mustang will remain RWD only as long as Ford produces it.

In the March 2010 issue of Law and Order magazine, the writers metioned something I hadn't read elsewhere The normally aspirated V6 will be available with AWD as an option. This will be important if Ford is to retain some of the market share it currently possess. After reading that the next PI would be American designed and built, I had figured that the CV was dead, the Falcon was not possible, and the Taurus was the likeliest candidate to replace the CVPI. I had wrongly figured that Ford would not use the Ecoboost engine since it would be expensive and complex. My prediction was that the Taurus would use the 305hp 3.7L NA V6 with AWD at least optional; that might still come to pass. If not, I'll bet real money that Ford uses the higher output 3.5L (285hp) due out next year. That makes sense since the press releases mentioned more than once that the NA engine would produce "at least" 263hp and the EB V6 would have "at least" 365hp. My prediction: The FWD Taurus-based PI will likely steal sales from the dated Impala 9C1 and the AWD NA V6 model will generate quite a few sales because of its fuel economy, traction, and balance, but, I believe the Caprice PPV will be the overall sales winner. It will be out a year earlier than the new PI and many fleet managers will buy it because they have such fond memories of the '94-'96 LT1 Caprices that they drove as officers or sergeants. It even looks a bit like the old one even though they share nothing but a name. The sleeper among the law enforcement fleet will be the Explorer PI that Ford mentioned at its press conference. Based on the same platform as the Taurus, it will offer extra utility, the same very good fuel economy, a similar price as the sedan, optional AWD, and a substantially lower price than the only other full pursuit rated SUV available - the huge RWD only Tahoe. I'll bet that many agencies opt for Explorer PIs for administrators, K-9 officers, accident reconstructionists, evidence technicians, truck enforcement officers, and even regular beat officers.

Oh dear God, no!

BTW, at the Chicago Auto Show, an engineer at the fleet display told me that Chevy has no plans to make a civilian Caprice. That, he said, will create demand for used squads increasing their value. I'm guessing that Chevy will use that point as a marketing tool to justify a higher price for the Caprice than the Taurus and maybe the Charger. As for the Taurus-based Police Interceptor (TPI), I just read in a LE trade magazine (3/10, Law and Order) that AWD will be available with the non-turbo V6. This is a very smart move on Ford's part. I had given up on a new or old RWD platform being used for the next gen PI and had resigned myself to the notion that the Taurus would be the basis. I had posted that I figured Ford would not use the Ecoboost V6 due to its greater complexity, higher initial cost, and increased maintenance, but Ford proved me wrong and they will offer it. I figured the drivetrain would be the new 305hp 3.7L V6 with AWD at least optional if not standard. Instead, Ford will make the 3.5L standard but I believe it will be the higher output version (285hp) due on the 2011 models. Predictions: FWD TPI's will eat into Impala 9C1 sales, AWD TPI's will grap some of the CVPI's former market share, and the EB TPI will steal some of the Hemi-powered Charger's sales. The big winner, though, will be the V8 Caprice as long as the price remains reasonable. Those who now decide which squad car to buy were patrol officers driving the mid 90s LT1 Caprices and they still have very fond memories of those big, RWD, small block-powered cars. Between nostalgia and the timing of the release of the new Chevy, the Caprice will replace the CVPI as American Law Enforcement's favorite squad car. Lastly, the sleeper in this market may be the new Explorer PI that Ford hinted at in their press conference. An EPI will likely be priced about the same as the TPI making it thousands of dollars cheaper than the only other pursuit rated SUV available - the heavy, thirsty, expensive, and RWD-only Tahoe. I'm guessing many agencies will opt at no extra cost for the extra utility of the EPI over the sedan version for many uses such as for supervisors, evidence techs, K-9s, accident reconstructionists, truck enforcement, etc.

I think the early lead in time is because Chevy's Caprice will be out at least a year before the Taurus PI, which will actually be a MY2013 coming out in January 2012 or so. Ford is likely concerned that it will lose its big market share to the RWD Chevy and wants to let law enforcement know early on that they think they have a viable replacement for the beloved CVPI. One bit of good news for the Taurus PI is that, according to Law and Order magazine (03/10), AWD will be available with the base NA V6. Realizing that Ford would not revise the dated Panther again and that Ford would not be importing the Falcon from Australia, I resigned myself to the fact that Ford's likeliest candidate for the next gen PI was the Taurus. Accepting that (grudgingly), I had hoped Ford would at least offer AWD as an option if not make it standard. I really didn't believe that they would offer the ecoboost V6 even as an option; I was wrong. Early reports made no indication that AWD would be available on anything but the EB V6. While a FWD Taurus PI won't likely snarf up the CVPI's 75% share of the market, an AWD non-turbo version might. The ecoboost model will likely be passed up by most agencies due to higher initial cost and (at least perceived) maintenance costs. My guess is by the time the Taurus PI is built, the engine will either be updated with Twin Independent Variable Camshaft Timing bringing horsepower up to 285 or perhaps the 3.7L 305hp V6 will make its way under the hood. Perhaps the sleeper here is the new Explorer PI. It will likely be much more popular than the only other pursuit rated SUV - the big and expensive Tahoe, which is RWD only. The EPI will offer good utility, a lower price, much better fuel economy, and superior handling. In fact, if the pricing is close, I'll bet that many agencies opt for the EPI over the TPI for the extra utility. This will be especially true for special assignments such as accident investigators, canine officers, truck enforcement officers, evidence technicians, etc.

I'm still convinced that the Taurus based PI will not be appealing enough to the law enforcement market for Ford to retain its majority of the market. The TPI will steal sales from the Impala but probably not many from the new Caprice or Charger. The RWD Chevy will be the big winner if GM keeps the fleet price reasonable.

The engines in the 2011 Mustang are great. I just wish Ford had used them in the CV, GM, and TC. Those cars needed to have their drivetrains updated years ago and should've at least gotten the Mustang's 5 speed automatic and 3V 4.6L V8 back in '05. Ford could've gotten a few more years out of the Panther platform as these three sedans would've benefitted greatly from the 305 hp 3.7L V6 and 6 speed auto. Fuel economy, performance, ride, and handling would've all seen noticable improvements. Perhaps Ford could've developed an IRS that could've been shared with the Mustang or at least the Shelby Cobra.

Too cool! Thanks.

Ditto. I don't see a Fusion-based coupe eating sales from the Mustang especially if the former retains five passenger seating. I'd love to see it called Maverick with the 2.5L I4/6 speed stick standard and having the 3.0L V6 and a 6 speed automatic optional. The Maverick GT would have the 285hp 3.5L V6 and AWD. If not for Ford, then make it for Mercury as the new Cougar.

Good points. When the '82 Camaro was finally released, it had in its top "performance" iteration 165hp verses 157hp that the Mustang GT had; still, the GT was much faster. As time went on, the Z28 almost always had higher power ratings but the Mustang was almost always faster. But more importantly, the Mustangs felt lighter, more agile, more livable. The Camaros felt edgier, harsher, rougher.

THANKS!! Wrap it up. I'll take it.

Would you make a Cougar for us?? One based on your Milan, please!

I like it a lot. I particularly like the shape of the roof, the rear side windows, and the unique side body line. Build it and let Mustang be the pony car and let this be the nicely equipped sporty coupe. Offer only a 6 speed automatic with V6s - the 3.7L as standard on the Cougar and the EB/TT 3.5L in the Cougar XR-7. Could you change the color to bright red??