02MustangGT

We need another thread on this same topic. Oh wait.

Wouldn’t BEV Av/Ex replace some volume of current ICE Av/Ex production? IMO, EV’s in 2024 doesn’t necessarily mean growth in production volume for the nameplate, but rather a replacement for current ICE volume.

Good news bad news eh? If it’s previewing now, you should know tomorrow if it gets pulled for a scheduled build (along with an assigned VIN). At that point, I doubt the order could be “held”. This whole Bronco reservation/order system is a cluster and this is just another example. I don’t blame you for wanting to wait on the MOD top, that’s the exact reason I have 2 orders. I compromised on my “early” reservation and switched to the soft top. If I can’t live with it, I will use the other reservation/order to get the MOD top in 2023 or whenever (and sell the soft top Bronco). I’m rooting for you to get your Bronco sooner rather than later regardless. But I certainly understand the frustration if you don’t want the MIC top.

It is my understanding that the zone reps have the ability to place orders into “hold” status (99) as the dealers no longer have this option in WBDO. Of course this might have changed recently. I have a second order that is also waiting for the mod-top. My original reservation (7/31) and order somehow got pulled this week and is scheduled to build on 1/10/2022.

Please explain why the profile reminds you of an Isuzu Axiom. Is it due to the “soft” slope to the D pillar? Otherwise, nothing about the design evokes anything related to an Axiom. Many SUV’s have a sloped/soft D pillar design element.

Disagree because said dealers can benefit from the market by collecting ridiculous markups? I know my low volume dealer disagrees with this updated Bronco allocation formula. Meanwhile…anyone can order a Wrangler and pay less than MSRP all while taking delivery in ~90 days (no allocation limits). Ford and volume dealers have screwed many enthusiasts (early reservation holders) during this Bronco rollout. There is no recourse available to the customer and it will eventually cause folks to purchase other brands. I don’t have an immediate need for a vehicle nor am I interested in a Wrangler, but I imagine some enthusiasts are looking elsewhere.

I believe Ford is attempting to control the dealer games. Unless I’ve misinterpreted some of the recent posts on B6G, any reservation holder that did not convert to an order in 2021 will receive an email to “order online” via Ford.com. During that process they will be presented dealer pricing for the build (I assume the dealer is required to interact with this system and provide pricing…msrp or otherwise). In addition, the customer will be subjected to a $500 deposit to place the order. Luckily for me, my dealer is honest and reliable, I will take delivery of my Bronco at invoice price (and no, there will not be any dealer doc fees or surprises upon delivery).

It’s a shame that some dealers decide to take advantage of the market. These stories are all too common when it comes to Bronco deliveries. Not that it would matter, but did you have any sort of documented purchase/pricing agreement?

Not true, maybe “some” or “most” or “majority” but definitely not EVERYONE. There are 2 small Ford dealers in my region that continue to sell EVERY new Ford vehicle on their lots at invoice price.

Yep, I knew that Dean. Like I said, unprecedented times. Wishing you luck (sounds like you need it)!

Correct. Especially those Broncos that were said to be “abandoned” orders. The games that some dealers play to get product and sell to those who have money to burn…not calling your dealer out at all Dean (some dealers are honest), but I can understand how that situation is frustrating to those customers who have been waiting for so long to have a vehicle delivered.

Complaining about people complaining. Typical Internet. I understand both sides of it. I have a Bronco on order (actually 2), but am in a position where I can afford to wait so both are on hold and waiting for 2022 and 2023 model years. I’d be upset as well if my Bronco was built and sitting on a random lot for 4 or 5 months. It’s really unprecedented if you think about it. All because of a design/production issue that planning and testing could have prevented.

I was referring to the exposed edges and thin outer shell. The new top is said to have rolled edges and a slightly thicker outer shell (read: additional cost). I’m not confident that water intrusion will be resolved, time will tell.

2 words…cost savings.

For those interested, here’s the report on the gas leak: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/09/05/flat-rock-residents-evacuate-hazardous-gas-leak-fumes-ford-assembly/5740763001/

Yes, my parents own a 2020 F150 King Ranch. The leather is nice for sure, but I’m not just referring to leather quality. Sit in a Lincoln, then go sit in the comparable Ford. The quality difference is noticeable and you absolutely pay for it. In the case of the Navigator, there again, the Raptor 3.5EB is exclusive to Lincoln in terms of full size SUV’s. You cannot get 450hp/510tq in an Expy. That’s more than “10 HP” difference btw. Look, I get what you are saying, Ford could potentially go even more upmarket with trims, some would argue they already have, but unique interior/exterior styling and higher quality materials, among other exclusive bits allows Lincoln to continue to succeed and be profitable. BTW, our Lincoln and the stand-alone Lincoln dealer nearby does offer a unique buying and service experience when compared to the Ford dealers in the area.

Have you compared an Expedition to a Navigator? Sorry, this is not subjective, the Navigator does indeed have noticeably better quality interior materials. I won’t speak for the other shared platforms, but my assumption is the material quality in the Lincoln products is noticeably better than their Ford counterparts as well.

Certainly rebates/discounts can be a factor when cross-shopping. My statement stands, the MSRP for full size trucks is comparative. There is not a significant difference when comparing similarly equipped models.

I didn’t mention that on purpose. I knew the sales mix and “discounts/financing” would be the first rebuttal. The fact remains, RAM and GM do not price their trucks to undercut the F150. Hell, back in 2013, I purchase a new F150 XLT SuperCrew 4x4 302A. MSRP was $45k, sale price was $32k (with discounts etc). That was the norm for volume model trucks (regardless manufacturer..in terms of Big 3) and still would be today if it wasn’t for COVID and supply constraints. Regardless of the sales mix, full size trucks print money for manufacturers.

MSRP is comparative. In fact, RAM 1500 starting MSRP is higher than F150. So no, RAM and GM are not undercutting F150 on price. https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1131595_2021-ford-f-150-vs-2021-ram-1500-compare-trucks

Can anyone describe how the design of the new MIC top will prevent water intrusion? According to current Bronco owners, it’s not the top, it’s the water drainage channel that becomes overwhelmed which leads to water intrusion.

So 2 wrongs make a right. Got it. My intention is to seek the truth, not dwell on what has been fed to me by Ford (or other “trusted” sources). Truth is, this never was “just” a cosmetic issue regardless of what you choose to believe. If Ford or others are that naive to ignore evidence of water intrusion prior releasing a statement, that’s on them.

My sources do not rely on “thinking” there is a water intrusion issue. Actual Bronco owners have experienced water intrusion prior to Ford’s statement regarding the tops and have provided photo evidence. Apparently the water channel/drain becomes overwhelmed which results in leakage. This appears to be a design issue. Ford should’ve taken the initiative to understand the water intrusion issue long before 1000’s of Broncos were sitting in the rot lot.

Pay attention. There were reports of water intrusion prior to Ford releasing a statement regarding “cosmetic issues”. Not my problem that you refuse to believe this.

I’ve mentioned this countless times. It’s common knowledge that those Broncos will incur damage from water intrusion. Thankfully my Bronco orders have not been built and likely won’t be until 2022.