DCK Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybri...News&rpc=44 DETROIT, Feb 1 (Reuters) - The average sales incentive on cars and light trucks sold in the United States in January dropped 6 percent from a year earlier, a Web site that tracks auto industry sales trends said on Thursday. Web site Edmunds.com said the average manufacturer incentive on autos sold in the U.S. market was $2,276 per vehicle, down $149, or 6 percent, from a year earlier. Sales incentives are widely tracked as an indication of the relative profitability of various automakers and the pressure that they face to move inventory. General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile , Research) recorded a 17 percent drop in incentives compared with a year earlier, the largest decline among major automakers, Edmunds said. GM's average incentive spending was $2,365, down from $2,838 a year earlier, Edmunds said. DaimlerChrysler AG (DCXGn.DE: Quote, Profile , Research) led the industry with average spending per vehicle of $3,853 in January, down 8 percent from $4,191 a year earlier, it said. Ford Motor Co's (F.N: Quote, Profile , Research) reported incentives rose 24 percent to $3,502 in January from $2,826 a year earlier. Edmunds estimated that industry-wide incentives cost $2.6 billion in January, with the three Detroit-based automakers accounting for $1.8 billion, or almost 70 percent of the total. © Reuters 2007. All Rights Reserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I don't see the incentives situation improving anytime soon with stale models like the Focus and Five Hundred sitting on lots collecting dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvujeb Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I don't see the incentives situation improving anytime soon with stale models like the Focus and Five Hundred sitting on lots collecting dust. The Escape and Mariner are carrying high incentives right now due to the '08 models coming out this month as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 The Escape and Mariner are carrying high incentives right now due to the '08 models coming out this month as well. Oh I'm sure. I just used the Focus and FH as examples. About the only Ford vehicle you couldn't accuse of being stale at this point is the Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Actually, Ford is doing very little to move the Five Hundred. Fleet dumping and/or heavy incentives will kill residual on the Five Hundreds. Therefore customers that leased Five Hundreds back in 2004/5 will be hesitant to lease another when their lease expires this year and next, as the lease rate will be substantially higher. Ford's taking a long-term view with the Five Hundred. Compare 2004 sales numbers for the Toyota Avalon (or 2005 numbers for the RAV4) to see a company 'play out the string' with an unpopular model. ------------------- And last of all, it is amazing that the Edmunds data is accepted without question when it so often differs from that prepared by AutoData. Further, the amounts in question are not sales adjusted--at least I've never seen it indicated on their website that they do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 About the only Ford vehicle you couldn't accuse of being stale at this point is the Edge. If the Fusion is already stale Ford might as well get out of the car business. This would mean a new design is needed every year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 If the Fusion is already stale Ford might as well get out of the car business. This would mean a new design is needed every year! You know, I completely forgot about the Fusion. Goes back to my saying Ford's marketing sucks. I'm a Ford fan and can't even remember one of their newest cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 If the Fusion is already stale Ford might as well get out of the car business. This would mean a new design is needed every year! As soon as the Camry put in the 269hp V6 from the Avalon, the Fusion was stale... If Ford had at least made the 3.5L V6 an option in the Fusion it would be current. You do not have to change every year, but you do have to change when the leader of the market upgrades their product. Ford might not like it, but that is the reality of the situation... I like the fusion, it is a good design. The AWD is a great idea for the class, but it got a butt whooping on the hp front... The funny part is that most people won't buy the most powerful Camry, but it creates market buzz that attracts customers to take a look. If a car does well in the auto rags comparison test, it attracts potential buyers to the lots. Ford might not like this little game, but they better learn to play the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Like it or not, it seems that 250hp+ is the new standard for V6 midsize sedans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystander Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybri...News&rpc=44 "Ford Motor Co's (F.N: Quote, Profile , Research) reported incentives rose 24 percent to $3,502 in January from $2,826 a year earlier." I sure am glad Ford has gotten rid of those dastardly fleet sales. Now they can concentrate on profitable retail sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 Like it or not, it seems that 250hp+ is the new standard for V6 midsize sedans. My conern is Ford would rather make Ford Brand vehicles uncompetitive in their offerings simply so they don't have to invest in Differentiating Lincolns and Mercury's more and that will not bold well at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Like it or not, it seems that 250hp+ is the new standard for V6 midsize sedans. But when over 50% of your sales are 4 cyc models, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Its not like the V6 Fusion is a boat ankor.. Anyways I would expect to see the 3.5 come in 09, when the MKZ gets the 3.7L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 But when over 50% of your sales are 4 cyc models, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Its not like the V6 Fusion is a boat ankor..You can't ignore the details in today's market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 IMHO, with the advent of the AWD Fusion, a higher output premium-fuel option should be available ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 You can't ignore the details in today's market. Such as the lack of AWD on the Camcord duo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Such as the lack of AWD on the Camcord duo?If only AWD was a detail that mattered (the Camcord are severely abusing the Fusion in sales all while not having AWD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 If only AWD was a detail that mattered (the Camcord are severely abusing the Fusion in sales all while not having AWD). Having over 20 years worth of name recognition and reputation behind them just matters a little bit :rolleyes: Face it, Ford isn't going to sell in the same numbers as the Camcord only a year or two after introduction of a new product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Having over 20 years worth of name recognition and reputation behind them just matters a little bit :rolleyes:The sad part is, cars like the AWD-less no recognition and reputation Pontiac G6 are outselling it. Heck, even the old Malibu is only 1000 units back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 The problem is that your basing success of the Fusion on X cars sold. If Ford only needs to sell 130K Fusions a year to pay for the program and make a profit and keep the resale value of the said product high...why worry about total sales numbers? Profit on its products are being eaten up buy other inefficiencies inside Ford, not because the car isn't selling. For an example of this, look at the Mustang Program...first time its had its own platform in its 40 year history...and with the Position that Ford has been since 2000, why was this allowed to happen? Because the business case for it was drawn up at selling X amount of Mustangs a year at a profit. The 05 has been selling beyond these expectations, thus Ford is paying off the costs sooner and will hopefully make changes to the Mustang to make it even nicer the next go around. Selling 200K Fusions with 3-5K discounts is stupid when you can sell 130K of them with little to no discounts and make a profit. Overall numbers mean nothing as long as you can make money on them at a reasonable number. No need to flood the market with unwanted cars like GM and DCX are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Selling 200K Fusions with 3-5K discounts is stupid when you can sell 130K of them with little to no discounts and make a profit. Overall numbers mean nothing as long as you can make money on them at a reasonable number. No need to flood the market with unwanted cars like GM and DCX are doing.I believe that is what some people are asking. When does Ford bring out a midsize car that can sell well over 200,000 units per year without needing 3-5k in incentives....3, 4, 5 more years? The market is getting no easier for the Fusion so it seems like it'll be a while. When does the Fusion get a redesign and new powerplant? Sadly I'm asking this about a 2 yr old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Actually, Ford is doing very little to move the Five Hundred. Fleet dumping and/or heavy incentives will kill residual on the Five Hundreds. Therefore customers that leased Five Hundreds back in 2004/5 will be hesitant to lease another when their lease expires this year and next, as the lease rate will be substantially higher. Ford's taking a long-term view with the Five Hundred. Compare 2004 sales numbers for the Toyota Avalon (or 2005 numbers for the RAV4) to see a company 'play out the string' with an unpopular model. Must be Bill jr's secret plan to destroy the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 The problem is that your basing success of the Fusion on X cars sold. If Ford only needs to sell 130K Fusions a year to pay for the program and make a profit and keep the resale value of the said product high...why worry about total sales numbers? Profit on its products are being eaten up buy other inefficiencies inside Ford, not because the car isn't selling. For an example of this, look at the Mustang Program...first time its had its own platform in its 40 year history...and with the Position that Ford has been since 2000, why was this allowed to happen? Because the business case for it was drawn up at selling X amount of Mustangs a year at a profit. The 05 has been selling beyond these expectations, thus Ford is paying off the costs sooner and will hopefully make changes to the Mustang to make it even nicer the next go around. Selling 200K Fusions with 3-5K discounts is stupid when you can sell 130K of them with little to no discounts and make a profit. Overall numbers mean nothing as long as you can make money on them at a reasonable number. No need to flood the market with unwanted cars like GM and DCX are doing. GM and DCX are probably studying Ford's 'Way Forward plan' and hoping to duplicate Fords incomparable success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 Selling 200K Fusions with 3-5K discounts is stupid when you can sell 130K of them with little to no discounts and make a profit. Overall numbers mean nothing as long as you can make money on them at a reasonable number. No need to flood the market with unwanted cars like GM and DCX are doing. I can't honestly believed you are so blind that you even had the audacity to post that outright lie in a thread about Fords Incentives skyrocketing and GM and DCX both posting double digit decreases............................Oh but it is DCX and GM flooding the market with vehicles no one wants? Did you not think before you posted again? Compare GM new vehicles and what is launching this year to Fords and it is clear GM is doing far better than Ford on the product side, especially when transaction prices are up and incentives are heavily down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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