pcsario Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Brazil. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119868 Guess I was right once again. HTT's promotion to Brazil wasn't a coincidence. They needed a miracle to make that work. The current Fiesta is a POS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) 2010? They wont be around by then, everything they have in plan is so far away there's no way the shit they are building now will stop the bleeding.. I can't believe it will still be over 3 years at the earliest, it's just mind boggling.. The competition will all be on their second gen B cars by then... They need to change their ads to say "slow" moves... Edited March 8, 2007 by Blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) My main worry is Brazil is only above Ford NA when it comes to their mediocre product execution and their transparent cost cutting. Yeah, it's a B-car, but trust me, even the Aveo looks & feels like a Rolls Royce next to the Brazilian Fiesta. The NA Fiesta will be pretty much the same one they'll get there (that's why the US won't get it until then), so I don't expect it to be suitably upgraded for NA consumption. It could suck as a Fit/Versa competitor in terms of overall standards. Ford needs to be at least on par with those, and unfortunately, nothing short of an euro-spec Fiesta will do the trick. Being cheap as fuck in everything is one of the main reasons why the Brazilian unit is profitable in the first place, dunno how much HTT will be able to mess with that Edited March 8, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I agree with pcsario, I've seen pics of the Ikon. It's fucking cheap as fuck compared to the fucking Aveo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I agree with pcsario, I've seen pics of the Ikon. It's fucking cheap as fuck compared to the fucking Aveo. Ikon <> Brazilian Fiesta ... HUGE difference. About the assembly 1) this would not be the first time Edmunds jumped the conclusions ... so I will wait for at least one more source to confirm this 2) this does not say that the Fiesta we will get will be the Brazilian kind - they can assemble EU Fiesta there .. the assembly location is mostly a factor of labor costs, reliability record, import tariffs and transport costs ... it does not necessarily translate into which model we actually get. (PS there is no information whether there even WILL BE Brazilian Fiesta model - from what I heard the market has moved a lot since the current model debuted, and the current model was falling behind in execution and quality ... Ford might just save the money and finally get rid of some of the localized Fiestas they are starting lose their advantage) 3) they say we get it in 2009 not 2010 - a date I have been mentioning for at least a year - so I do not under stand why people are surprised I will wait before I jump on this - Edmunds does make serious mistakes in their "news" - however many of the extrapolations you guys make are even less founded ... wait and see folks wait and see. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolita Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) Ikon <> Brazilian Fiesta ... HUGE difference. About the assembly 1) this would not be the first time Edmunds jumped the conclusions ... so I will wait for at least one more source to confirm this 2) this does not say that the Fiesta we will get will be the Brazilian kind - they can assemble EU Fiesta there .. the assembly location is mostly a factor of labor costs, reliability record, import tariffs and transport costs ... it does not necessarily translate into which model we actually get. (PS there is no information whether there even WILL BE Brazilian Fiesta model - from what I heard the market has moved a lot since the current model debuted, and the current model was falling behind in execution and quality ... Ford might just save the money and finally get rid of some of the localized Fiestas they are starting lose their advantage) 3) they say we get it in 2009 not 2010 - a date I have been mentioning for at least a year - so I do not under stand why people are surprised I will wait before I jump on this - Edmunds does make serious mistakes in their "news" - however many of the extrapolations you guys make are even less founded ... wait and see folks wait and see. Igor You are right Igor. The Brazilian market has bitched and complianed regarding the quality of materials, especially interior of both Fiesta and EcoSport. The updated Fiesta supposedly has addressed many of the shortcomings. The updated EcoSport, due in July should address many of the issues as well. What I don't understand is that Brazil is extremely expensive now with the appreciation of the Real and also Brazilian plants are at over capacity. I really don't know were they could build more Fiestas/EcoSports or whatever derivative that would make it to the US. However, Argentina has the Escort line idled for years and has extra capacity as well as very good if not excellent build quality. Could Ford South America be thinking along Argentina for extra capacity? The only sub utilized line in Brazil is in San Bernardo from which the "new" Ka dubebd Fly is due out 4th quarter 2007. I would also like to point out that in my experience the reliability and overall build quality of the Brazilian Fiesta/EcoSport is very good. Its just the material quality that are really poor. Edited March 8, 2007 by bolita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 We probably wouldn't get the Brazil spec engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) Brazil also puts a huge tax on anything 1L or larger, and I doubt that is in the works... only difference bettwe a E85 car and a non-E85 car is the engine tuning, so it makes little difference in the assembly process. I still wonder about the romours of India... FoI is the biggest user of the sedan version of the Feista (Icon) and you'd think that would be a target vehicle for FoNA... FoI aparently also is the assembly facility of Aussi Feistas. Edited March 8, 2007 by Kris Kolman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 The updated Fiesta supposedly has addressed many of the shortcomings. The updated EcoSport, due in July should address many of the issues as well. FOB didn't fix shit. I just checked out the refreshed Fiesta, and other than the new gauge clusters, the thing looks and feels just as crappy as ever. The new front end sucks, makes the car look Korean cheap now. They didn't use the new interior design from Europe either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 FOB didn't fix shit. I just checked out the refreshed Fiesta, and other than the new gauge clusters, the thing looks and feels just as crappy as ever. The new front end sucks, makes the car look Korean cheap now. They didn't use the new interior design from Europe either. So what the heck do you do for a living that you have access to all these different cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRyanC Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I agree, the Brazil does not look very good. The UK one looks much better from the front. From the back they look close but it's the little things that count. DRyanC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Isn't the IKON the original Fiesta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 "FOB didn't fix shit." Well, it's a dead-end chassis, so spending bucks on it is not such a great idea, if it has such a negative perception in the market. If Brazil is the next B-car source, then the Mazda 2 derived chassis will be fabricated there, and hopefully the styling dep't will get it right. So that's where the bucks should go. And maybe the new car can overcome the POS perception problem. Having the dude who got the Mustang right on the scene to supervise the launch of these critical vehicles seems to be an OK idea. We'll know, soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 FOB didn't fix shit. Does this guy every have anything positive to say? And without cussing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnson Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) In 18 months Honda will be assembling the next-gen Fit/Jazz at a new plant in Indiana. Ticktock. Edited March 9, 2007 by David Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) Sorry for being an ubiased realist, falconman. Anyway, don't take my word for it. Judge for yourself.... FoB craftmanship standards: Refreshed Fiesta - Try selling this over a Versa. The Ecosport sells for significantly more and it's not any better. FORD EUROPE: Refreshed Fiesta: Ford of India was smart/humble enough to realize there's no need to reinvent the wheel, and used FOE's interior design for their Fiesta: http://www.globalautoindex.com/images/cars..._2005_INDIA.jpg VW builds their Polo in Brazil as well, it's roughly the same quality as the one sold in Europe. The VW Lupo has also higher craftmanship standards and even costs less. Bottomline is this is just sheer incompetence on FoB's part. The "premium" interior only differs in that --apart from having leather seats-- the HVAC controls are surrounded in cheap silver paint. Ditto with the air vents. It's still as cheap looking as ever. I won't retract anything I said even if you don't like reading it. It's the cold hard truth. I don't sugarcoat things for the cheerleaders here. Door panels are even the same as the old model (different/uglier than the euro Fiesta + they steal knee room) and the fabrics/materials still suck; they're EXACTLY the same as before. Again the Ecosport sells for significantly more and it's equally as bad. They still had some '06 leftovers there and side by side the new one looks ugly. If it wasn't for the badge you could swear it's a Kia. Edited March 9, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Guess you never considered that the Brazilian Built Fiesta for the US might be the Euro spec one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) Guess you never considered that the Brazilian Built Fiesta for the US might be the Euro spec one? Let me put it this way... it would be like having two production lines building essentially the same car. Not gonna happen, most of the capacity will be for SA, remember, they're already running at full capacity (if not, pretty much). They won't pay for different everything for such small production numbers, kinda the same reason why the Milan isn't differentiated more from the Fusion. It'll be a dressed up version of THEIR Fiesta - don't expect huge differences in interiors, components, materials, build quality, etc. if any. (economies of scale) Without HTT's involvment overseeing FoB, things could've gotten seriously ugly. He has a tough task ahead of him, but make no mistake, the Brazilian Fiesta is the car you'll be getting in the end. Again think Fusion Vs. Milan at best, base Fusion Vs. SEL at worst. Edited March 9, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 So what the heck do you do for a living that you have access to all these different cars? pcsario has access to Ford dealerships in Mexico, which is a unique asset to the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 pcsario has access to Ford dealerships in Mexico, which is a unique asset to the forum But what sort of access? I could say I "have access", since Tijuana's about half an hour from me.... (of course it's more like 3 hours to get back.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Again think Fusion Vs. Milan at best, base Fusion Vs. SEL at worst. You're saying there's a difference between the Fusion and the Milan? blasphemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Let me put it this way... it would be like having two production lines building essentially the same car. Not gonna happen, most of the capacity will be for SA, remember, they're already running at full capacity (if not, pretty much). They won't pay for different everything for such small production numbers, kinda the same reason why the Milan isn't differentiated more from the Fusion. It'll be a dressed up version of THEIR Fiesta - don't expect huge differences in interiors, components, materials, build quality, etc. if any. (economies of scale) Without HTT's involvment overseeing FoB, things could've gotten seriously ugly. He has a tough task ahead of him, but make no mistake, the Brazilian Fiesta is the car you'll be getting in the end. Again think Fusion Vs. Milan at best, base Fusion Vs. SEL at worst. What your saying is pretty much contradicting what has been said or rumored to be happening..that we would be getting the Euro Fiesta or some form of it Ford Motor Co. today confirmed plans to bring the next-generation Ford Fiesta subcompact car to North America as part of a plan to move toward greater communization of products on both sides of the Atlantic. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../703050412/1148 While I don't think we'll get a totally unmolested version of the Euro Fiesta, it should be better then the built for Brazilian market one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Oh God if the "new" Ford gives us that Brazilian piece of shit then nothing has changed at all, and they will soon be out of business. Either they give us the exact same damn car Europe gets or their B car effort will be a disastrous failure, I'm leaning towrds disastrous failure considering the absolute garbage Ford keeps pumping out and the fact a very Brazilian looking Fiesta was spotted somewhere here in the U.S. with a 3 bar-like grill. I can only guess Ford is deliberately trying to go under, ten retarded blind men could put forth a better effort, nothing else makes any sense. I get my hopes up here and there, but nothing ever changes, cheapo, de-contented crap is still the way at Ford, and I don't see any changes at all on the horizon, I can only imagine what the import buying snobs think of Ford's incompetence! :titanic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 And here it is.. http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/auto...ws/4213197.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Isn't that the current Brazillian Fiesta? and how is That a "sedan" it looks like a Hatch to me .. that is definitely not the NEW Fiesta we will be getting .. those car are barely on the road in Germany (still under old bodies) ... so definitely NOPE ... I see your concerns though, although the obsession with "euro or nothing" is getting a little out of hand ... we will honestly not know until later ... as I said .. we still do not know whether there even will be a Brazilian Fiesta .. remember Fields is also boss of SA and Mulally is the big boss - especially the latter matters a lot .. - Mulally has been all about unifying the "Fords" around the globe to finally create a global brand ... On the former position - after Fields canceled the EcoSport weeks before a debut, do you really think that he will let out something of the same quality just with updated sheet metal? (PS: We have yet to see ANY product with Field's stamp on it .. we JUST saw the LAST pre-Fields model (the E-series) .. and are waiting for the LA debut of the Fairlane which will be THE FIRST Fields model). Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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