Fusion Sinks Sonata

[rsgnome]

You're a fool. You don't think the increase in Fusion sales will not reflect an increase in fleet sales?

 

State your position and then the numbers will be there to prove me right. Do you really believe Ford has not moved the Fusion in to the market to replace the lost sales of the Taurus?

 

Put it in black and white right here if you believe the increase in sales for the Fusion is not fleet related.

 

 

What a stupid thing to say. An increase of sales does not constitute all(or even a significant portion as you seem to be implying) of these sales being to fleet customers.

 

I agree with Zan, the burden of proof is now in your court. cough it up or stfu.

 

And for the record, I have driven a 4 Cylinder/Manual Fusion extensively. I simply don't understand how this car can be considered mediocre in any sense of the word. It is engaging to drive, the power is above and beyond what I expected, even the equipment levels for a base SE model is more than expected as well. Ford definitely has a winner with this car. They are taking the right steps to promote this vehicle. It's no wonder that they sold over 40% more of them vs. last month.

[Michael Reynolds]

You're a fool. You don't think the increase in Fusion sales will not reflect an increase in fleet sales?

 

State your position and then the numbers will be there to prove me right. Do you really believe Ford has not moved the Fusion in to the market to replace the lost sales of the Taurus?

 

Put it in black and white right here if you believe the increase in sales for the Fusion is not fleet related.

 

Well why don't you provide some evidence proving him wrong? You do this ALL the time. If you don't have any evidence stating exactly what you are arguing, shut it.

 

Time and time again you position yourself as the least credible person on this board.

[RichardJensen]

Dave9991 is in a position to know these details. Bluecon is not in a position to question them. I'm not going to elaborate further on this.

[Automotive Paint]

Let me preface this with that fact I've purchased 5 new Fords since 1998, my g/f has purchased 4 since 97 and her uncle just got chit canned for the closed ATL plant after 12 years of service.

 

A year ago the g/f wanted to dump her slower than dirt gas guzzling 04 2wd F-150 about the time the Fusion launched. It was winter 06 and fuel prices had eased so the gas guzzling p/u's were worth something again and we basically decided on Fusion because it was a Ford product she could 'plan' and a Furd dealer would most likely give her the best trade on her pu.

 

Well, I never let her see one in person. Why you ask? Because the Insurance Institute (the only one with practical testing std's) just all but labeled the Fusion a death trap and since I actually like the g/f I told her it was no longer an option.

 

Now here is what will really stir the pot: She leased an 06 170hp Jetta with a 6sp auto for $229 per with nothing down for 30 months and with the previous generation of Jetta's and their resale a lease was the only way I would consider one. This car excelled in IT crash testing where the Fusion flopped, it gets 29 mpg on the highway and has yet to see a dealer after 12K.

 

Sure, VW is German company and the Jetta is built by burrito eaters but those same burrito eaters eat lunch with the Fusion employees and her safety trumped a single unit sale for Ford that might yield them $1000 in corporate profit.

 

Remember, in the late 80's and early 90's when Big 3 quality still sucked and the Japs started picking up market share by promoting their quaility the Big 3 countered with crash ratings because the Japs didn't take them serious at the time and it worked in the short term.

 

Now, Ford expects me to buy an 06/07 vehicle that performs on same chitty level of what a 91 Accord probably scored in Honda's pre-safety days?

 

I see 10's of thousands of wrecked vehicles per year in my line of work and at least in this house safety trumps where a companies corporate headquarters is located.

 

We want to buy Ford again but give us a reason.

Edited April 6, 2007 by Automotive Paint

[ANTAUS]

Automotive Paint,

 

Just a thought...but you did some research on the crash ratings of the Fusion then (which it has been improved and earned higher marks now for this years model towards the head of it's segment), but you didn't do the research on abysmally bad, Kia like dependability/reliability?

 

LINK-JDPower.com

 

Granted, it might be under wararnty, but it doesn't distract from the fact (like Kia owners would know) that frequent visits to the dealership becomes rather time consuming and annoying.

[Deanh]

Well the fact is it's only attracting the bottom feeders (Kias, Pontiacs, Hyundais, etc.)

 

It's starting to pull some decent numbers at the expense of those brands. Fusion is their new flavor of the month. Those buyers are fickle.

 

The mediocrity of the Fusion has meant none of the relevant cars were affected by the Ford, which is logical. Other than AWD, there's no reason to downgrade from a 2002 Accord to a 2007 Fusion.

 

This honestly reeks of...

 

if the Fusion is flavor of the minth what is the camry..SPAM.....

[Deanh]

Sales figures say you have that backwards.

Camry...automotive equivilent of SPAM.....LOL...it is a substitute for a car though...actually the whole segment is ho -hum...at least the Fusion makes an attempt ( right or wrong ) to be a little different...

Edited April 6, 2007 by Deanh

[range]

Now, Ford expects me to buy an 06/07 vehicle that performs on same chitty level of what a 91 Accord probably scored in Honda's pre-safety days?

 

I see 10's of thousands of wrecked vehicles per year in my line of work and at least in this house safety trumps where a companies corporate headquarters is located.

 

We want to buy Ford again but give us a reason.

 

You are incorrect.

 

It's funny how people fail to do the slightest research before reaching conclusions.

 

If you were to do the research you would find that the Fusion and Jetta have the same ratings from IIHS.

 

Both the Fusion and Accord get GOOD ratings for both front and side impact by IIHS.

 

You state: "Ford expects me to buy an 06/07 vehicle that performs on same chitty level of what a 91 Accord probably scored in Honda's pre-safety days?"

 

You reach this conclusion but fail to realize that the Accord gets the same front and side ratings as the Fusion, but the Fusion BEATS the Accord in rear impact.

 

The Accord is rated:

 

- POOR in rear impact.

- 4 stars in side impact.

 

The Fusion and your Jetta are rated the same in rear impact, marginal. (i.e. better than Accord)

 

Did you girlfirend even realize her Jetta is only rated at 4 STARS in frontal impact safety, and MARGINAL in rear impact safety? If she was concerned with top ratings for safety, why didn't she get a car with top ratings? Instead she got a poor quality car with bad reliability figures and run of the mill safety ratings.

 

You state: "at least in this house safety trumps where a companies corporate headquarters is located."

 

It's easy to state that, but your actions show otherwise. You did not get a car with top safety ratings.

 

So much for the thorough analysis of crash results.

[range]

Only with side air bags, which did not become standard equipment until this year. <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/03/02/iihs_fusion/index.html" target="_blank">LINK

</a>

 

Side air bags that are standard are NO MORE SAFE than side air bags that are optional.

 

If someone states "safety trumps all" I assume they would check the side air bag option box.

[RichardJensen]

Because the Insurance Institute (the only one with practical testing std's) just all but labeled the Fusion a death trap and since I actually like the g/f I told her it was no longer an option.

How about the Jetta's 4 star front impact rating?

 

That they had the chutzpah to brag about in TV commercials?

 

Oh. I forget. The IIHS standards are the only ones that are PRACTICAL.

[range]

They are more safe, because more people, when given the option, would rather spend the $600 or $700 that optional side air-bags cost on a power moon-roof, chrome wheels, or a louder stereo. I should know, because I did just that when I ordered my Explorer and my Focus.

 

Then "safety trumps all" does not apply to you like the other poster.

 

Optional side air bags PERFORM THE SAME as standard side air bags.

[range]

Not if the vehicle in question doesn't have them. If you test a car with optional equipment, how does that make the vehicle that doesn't have them just as safe?

 

IIRC, if the vehicle has standard and optional equipment, they must be tested both ways, and reported as such. Just because some Fusions in '06 had optional side bags, doesn't make all '06 Fusions score Good in side impact crashes.

 

It must be getting late where you are if you disagree with the following:

 

Optional side air bags PERFORM THE SAME as standard side air bags.

[range]

I agree. Optional bags perform the same as standard bags, but neither are any good if they are not installed.

 

Nobody said airbags not installed perform the same as airbags that are installed.

Edited April 6, 2007 by range

[F250]

If safety was the primary concern she should have bought a Five Hundred/Taurus.

[whereswaldo]

The car is doing well. It is catching on.

This is good news.

 

Wait until all those '04-'06 Taurus/Sable buyers are ready for their next car. It won't be a new Taurus/500. It'll be a Fusion/Milan, if they keep the pricing right.

[Automotive Paint]

If safety was the primary concern she should have bought a Five Hundred/Taurus.

 

 

The 500 wasn't worth the extra money when she drives 12 miles RT to work each day plus she was 29 at the time so the 500 is a granny car in her eyes compared to a Fusion.

 

The above crash test of POOR which was right after the launch was what I recalled and no VW didn't have those crash commercials out at the time but they did have those stupid pimp my ride commercials for the GTI or whatever.

 

VW doesn't have a clue how to market a car in the US but at the time it served her basic needs which was a cheap, safe commuter and like I said I was determined to buy a Fusion before looking at it and w/o looking at anything else. The VW idea happened spontaneously as we were driving by a closed VW dealer one night and I knew the Jetta was new, crashed well and priced the same so we took a look.

 

I myself am not crazy about eating airbags let alone filling a family car with 6, 8 or 10 of them like the current trend but crash testing is proving their worthiness for the most part.

 

The 91 Accord analogy was shooting from the hip but I'm sure you Ford employees can recall the era where the US cars had the safety advantage over the Japs. I was still school at the time and being the avid Jap car hater that I was I threw this anyones face that wanted to personify Jap cars like the Accord that was chit hot at the time.

 

I'm still a Ford guy deep down so know I'm pulling for Ford's survival but corporate needs to get their chit together fast.

[range]

The 500 wasn't worth the extra money when she drives 12 miles RT to work each day plus she was 29 at the time so the 500 is a granny car in her eyes compared to a Fusion.

 

The above crash test of POOR which was right after the launch was what I recalled and no VW didn't have those crash commercials out at the time but they did have those stupid pimp my ride commercials for the GTI or whatever.

 

VW doesn't have a clue how to market a car in the US but at the time it served her basic needs which was a cheap, safe commuter and like I said I was determined to buy a Fusion before looking at it and w/o looking at anything else. The VW idea happened spontaneously as we were driving by a closed VW dealer one night and I knew the Jetta was new, crashed well and priced the same so we took a look.

 

I myself am not crazy about eating airbags let alone filling a family car with 6, 8 or 10 of them like the current trend but crash testing is proving their worthiness for the most part.

 

The 91 Accord analogy was shooting from the hip but I'm sure you Ford employees can recall the era where the US cars had the safety advantage over the Japs. I was still school at the time and being the avid Jap car hater that I was I threw this anyones face that wanted to personify Jap cars like the Accord that was chit hot at the time.

 

I'm still a Ford guy deep down so know I'm pulling for Ford's survival but corporate needs to get their chit together fast.

 

I'm glad you admit "shooting from the hip" because your statements are inconsistent and incorrect.

 

You said "safety trumps all" but your decisions showed otherwise.

 

You selected a vehicle that only had a 4 star crash test rating and low rear impact ratings.

 

Since the highest rated sedan for safety at the time was the 500, and you discounted it means that your "safety trumps all in this family" statement doesn't hold water.

 

I think if you go back and examine your decision making process you will find "shooting from the hip" led you to a decision that does not meet your own stated requirement for safety.

[MGallun]

I'm glad you admit "shooting from the hip" because your statements are inconsistent and incorrect.

 

You said "safety trumps all" but your decisions showed otherwise.

 

You selected a vehicle that only had a 4 star crash test rating and low rear impact ratings.

 

Since the highest rated sedan for safety at the time was the 500, and you discounted it means that your "safety trumps all in this family" statement doesn't hold water.

 

I think if you go back and examine your decision making process you will find "shooting from the hip" led you to a decision that does not meet your own stated requirement for safety.

 

Snap! dude just got pwned! lol.. good one range!

 

but from what auto is saying, it sounds like he is trying to rationalize his decision to by the jetta, knowing he made a mistake on his purchase... p.s. Fusion and 500 are much better vehicles all around than a jetta.

Edited April 6, 2007 by MGallun

[ZanatWork]

Snap! dude just got pwned! lol.. good one range!

 

but from what auto is saying, it sounds like he is trying to rationalize his decision to by the jetta, knowing he made a mistake on his purchase... p.s. Fusion and 500 are much better vehicles all around than a jetta.

 

 

Considering how much time VW has spent at the bottom of JD Powers in the last decade, I'd say the Jetta is a "spirited risk"!

[range]

Snap! dude just got owned! lol.. good one range!

 

but from what auto is saying, it sounds like he is trying to rationalize his decision to by the jetta, knowing he made a mistake on his purchase... p.s. Fusion and 500 are much better vehicles all around than a jetta.

 

Its sooo typical, so many people ignore the facts in order to justify the decision they actually want to make.

 

Regarding relaibility, VW is rated #31 in JDPower Reliability, that's 5th from the bottom.

 

Meanwhile Ford is rated above industry average at #11.

 

The only non luxury brands rated higher than Ford are Mercury (#2), Buick, Toyota, and Honda.

 

In initial quality, VW does even worse. VW is rated second from the bottom.

Edited April 6, 2007 by range

[MGallun]

Its sooo typical, so many people ignore the facts in order to justify the decision they actually want to make.

 

Regarding relaibility, VW is rated #31 in JDPower Reliability, that's 5th from the bottom.

 

Meanwhile Ford is rated above industry average at #11.

 

The only non luxury brands rated higher than Ford are Mercury (#2), Buick, Toyota, and Honda.

 

In initial quality, VW does even worse. VW is rated second from the bottom.

 

got a guy i know in town here, he has a 04 Jetta, its in the shop at least 1-2 times a month, so stupid little things and sometimes larger.. but dude said he will buy another, because its not american or japanese and the "prestige" of owning a german\volkswagen..

 

i was like, eh ok..

 

my contour was in shop less time in 6 years and 118k than his jetta in 2 year snd 21k.. go figure.

 

plus my fusion spanks his 1.8T in straight and cornering to boot! hell, my contour did too if i think about it.

Edited April 6, 2007 by MGallun

[DCK]

Its sooo typical, so many people ignore the facts in order to justify the decision they actually want to make.

 

Regarding relaibility, VW is rated #31 in JDPower Reliability, that's 5th from the bottom.

 

Meanwhile Ford is rated above industry average at #11.

 

The only non luxury brands rated higher than Ford are Mercury (#2), Buick, Toyota, and Honda.

 

In initial quality, VW does even worse. VW is rated second from the bottom.

I never understood how Mercury does so amazingly well onthe study yet everyone at Ford is clueless to advertise it. Mercury should be shouting from the top of the mountain that they destroyed Toyota and Hnda in the study...........Be loud and be proud of it. Yet they never ever mentioned it.

[Automotive Paint]

Wow! Ya'll are some angry mofo's especially toward someone who since 98 has continued to be brand loyal and purchased well over $100K of your Furd's even though based on the declining sales during this same period other Ford loyalist left and never looked back.

 

These early 06 II tests are why I said I refuse to be caught dead in a Fusion and while the frontal impact looks great in both minus the driver's foot issue which the Fusion scores worse on but even so it's not worth splitting hairs over but regardless of how much Ford Kool Aid you drink you can't tell me you would want to be T-Boned in an 06 Fusion because unlike the VW which has the highest II overall rating on it's side impact of 'Good' the overall side impact rating of the Fusion isn't 'acceptable', 'marginal' but the lowest possible rating of 'poor' .

 

Fusion side

 

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=621

 

Fusion front

 

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=631

 

VW front

 

 

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=231

 

 

VW side

 

 

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=276

 

 

I would imagine these star ratings you refer to are from the antiquated government testing but I'm sorry I've been around the collision indsutry too long to know that the II testing all around is far more demanding of the vehicle based on simple physics alone and their decision to perform 40/60 frontal offset test vs. a head-on like the gov't is based on realistic crash data.

 

Did I decide on the VW for her because it was the safest car in the world? No. Did I base my decision on fresh crash data from the II between two brand new models in a class and price range that we happened to be shopping at the time? Yes.

 

i couldn't agree more with the posts about the previous gen Jetta being a major POS but after reading good reviews on the new model I said what the hell. Even with the positive reviews just like the Fusion at the time they both were new designs without previous model year history to go though both VW and Ford had piss poor track records overall with regards to both reliabilty and resale of its small and midsized cars.

 

This is why she LEASED the VW. With nothing down she pays $229 per for 30 months on VW that could have turned into a POS like its previous generation which in return would have tanked the resale and I would have actually cared about resale had it been purchased. Like I said it has been trouble free and pretty cheap to drive.

 

I didn't post about the VW lease to rationalize it's purchase because it's nothing more than a leased vehicle that gets thrown away at the end of the term. All I wanted to do was show you primarily Ford employees that I didn't write off the Fusion which was initially my first and only choice (how many customers like this do you have left?) because it's a Ford, because Toyota is God or because I hate UAW employees but simply because it sucked ass in a legitimate side impact test.

 

Are there safer vehicle out there? Yes, but based on the fresh testing at the time of two brand new vehicles in the class we were considering I chose the one I would be willing to get in wreck in.

 

Flame all you want because I'm thick skinned and it doesn't bother me. Just know that even considering Ford's overall sorry ass track record and flagrant mismanagement as of the last decade I, unlike 10's of millions of other people in this country who wouldn't bat an eye, personally hope they don't file bankruptcy or at worst go out of business but that said in my logical eyes bankruptcy is all but inevitable.

 

Like I said keep the BS coming because I can take it but in all sincerity I hope not one more Ford employee has to be bought out/laid off/fired.

Edited April 7, 2007 by Automotive Paint

[suv_guy_19]

Wow! Ya'll are some angry mofo's especially toward someone who since 98 has continued to be brand loyal and purchased well over $100K of your Furd's even though based on the declining sales during this same period other Ford loyalist left and never looked back.

 

These early 06 II tests are why I said I refuse to be caught dead in a Fusion and while the frontal impact looks great in both minus the driver's foot issue which the Fusion scores worse on but even so it's not worth splitting hairs over but regardless of how much Ford Kool Aid you drink you can't tell me you would want to be T-Boned in an 06 Fusion because unlike the VW which has the highest II overall rating on it's side impact of 'Good' the overall side impact rating of the Fusion isn't 'acceptable', 'marginal' but the lowest possible rating of 'poor' .

 

Fusion side

 

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=621

 

Fusion front

 

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=631

 

VW front

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=231

VW side

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=276

I would imagine these star ratings you refer to are from the antiquated government testing but I'm sorry I've been around the collision indsutry too long to know that the II testing all around is far more demanding of the vehicle based on simple physics alone and their decision to perform 40/60 frontal offset test vs. a head-on like the gov't is based on realistic crash data.

 

Did I decide on the VW for her because it was the safest car in the world? No. Did I base my decision on fresh crash data from the II between two brand new models in a class and price range that we happened to be shopping at the time? Yes.

 

i couldn't agree more with the posts about the previous gen Jetta being a major POS but after reading good reviews on the new model I said what the hell. Even with the positive reviews just like the Fusion at the time they both were new designs without previous model year history to go though both VW and Ford had piss poor track records overall with regards to both reliabilty and resale of its small and midsized cars.

 

This is why she LEASED the VW. With nothing down she pays $229 per for 30 months on VW that could have turned into a POS like its previous generation which in return would have tanked the resale and I would have actually cared about resale had it been purchased. Like I said it has been trouble free and pretty cheap to drive.

 

I didn't post about the VW lease to rationalize it's purchase because it's nothing more than a leased vehicle that gets thrown away at the end of the term. All I wanted to do was show you primarily Ford employees that I didn't write off the Fusion which was initially my first and only choice (how many customers like this do you have left?) because it's a Ford, because Toyota is God or because I hate UAW employees but simply because it sucked ass in a legitimate side impact test.

 

Are there safer vehicle out there? Yes, but based on the fresh testing at the time of two brand new vehicles in the class we were considering I chose the one I would be willing to get in wreck in.

 

Flame all you want because I'm thick skinned and it doesn't bother me. Just know that even considering Ford's overall sorry ass track record and flagrant mismanagement as of the last decade I, unlike 10's of millions of other people in this country who wouldn't bat an eye, personally hope they don't file bankruptcy or at worst go out of business but that said in my logical eyes bankruptcy is all but inevitable.

 

Like I said keep the BS coming because I can take it but in all sincerity I hope not one more Ford employee has to be bought out/laid off/fired.

 

You do realize that poor old mismanaged fords, have more 5 star ratings than any other company...the fusion now included among them....you are saying that the people here trying to tell you the fusion is now safer (and was at the time if the optional airbags were installed)...in fact it is you that seemingly has come armed with facts that are no longer relevant or correct. Yes...there was a problem at first....the problem has been fixed...why complain about it now....I'd say Ford did a good job fixing something in just a little over 1 model year.

[Edstock]

Well, now the Fusion comes with side air bags, so, the point is?