NickF1011 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Beyond the Explorer, Lincoln could use a V6 Hybrid. While the Accord has had issues, Toyo has been successful with it's V6 hybrids and is now even offering a V8 hybrid (For 100k+ ). Define "successful". From all accounts I've heard, the Lexus V6 hybrids are selling like complete crap. For the most part, I would say luxury car buyers really aren't all that worried about fuel economy in their $50,000+ cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 I must confess to being something of a gadget guy and in that respect the Prius has appeal. Aren't we all gadget guys? However, I am also something of a refined taste person as well (the many faces of blackhorse) and in that light I could see the appeal of the more refined interior of the Fusion. I must say from experience that the ride of the Prius wasn't all that bad. It certainly wasn't sports car but then not bad either. It was very quiet, I suspect from large battery packs and materials to keep out road noise. It was rather like driving a very small luxury sedan. Personally I think that hybrid and all out electric technology is the way of the future for car makers. Ford should both feet it. Last night I read in the current issue of Automobile that Toyota is going to spin their hybrid line off into a division all it's own i.e. Scion. The Camry hybrid is going away as is the Highlander. Beginning in 2009 the Toyota hybrids will be distinct and unique cars all unto themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 my two cents worth...NEVER drive behind a Prius in the carpool lane...it's almost as if they all seem to tap the brake pedal in time with the music.....riding behind one of THOSE people is like disco dancing...strobe/ brake lights and all.....do they not have any engine braking at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 my two cents worth...NEVER drive behind a Prius in the carpool lane...it's almost as if they all seem to tap the brake pedal in time with the music.....riding behind one of THOSE people is like disco dancing...strobe/ brake lights and all.....do they not have any engine braking at all? My guess is that somebody was using the regenerative braking to recharge their battery. There seems to be this pervasive trend in the sort of Prius sub-culture to find driving methods that result in the best possible mpg. Sounds like you got behind one of them. It's annoying as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 My guess is that somebody was using the regenerative braking to recharge their battery. There seems to be this pervasive trend in the sort of Prius sub-culture to find driving methods that result in the best possible mpg. Sounds like you got behind one of them. It's annoying as hell. funnily enough it seems to be ALL of them....infuriating to say the least....make me do the old on the throttle off the throttle BS....meanwhile theyr'e bobbin to Milli Vanilli.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 (edited) Define "successful". From all accounts I've heard, the Lexus V6 hybrids are selling like complete crap. For the most part, I would say luxury car buyers really aren't all that worried about fuel economy in their $50,000+ cars. Sales are down, but then, Toyota sold 3,778 V6 Hybrid Highlanders and RX's compared to Ford's 2,275 Escape and Mariner Hybrids in April. I would hold that the low volume of all four has more to do with them being SUVs than V6 models. Honda sold a whopping 318 Accord Hybrids. Source. I see more RX Hybrids in my area than Ford/Mercury Edited May 16, 2007 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Ford ZM Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Maybe the tougher emissions implemented for the 08 model year? With stricter emissions just a few years away. The ULSD is already taking away 1-2mpgs in 6.0s currently running around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 At a recent press event, Mulally was asked about a luxury hybrid, and said in response, "nothing I can talk about right now". IMO, Volvo & Lincoln are two solid bets for hybrid technology. Volvo because its clientele just love that kind of touchy/feely stuff, and Lincoln because, let's be perfectly frank with each other, Lincolns are not known for performance, and with Ford trying to stake out a 'no compromises' luxury attitude with Lincoln, being able to enjoy your leather and wood while being socially responsible works. Ford will not make Toyota's mistakes and position any Lincoln hybrid as a speed demon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 At a recent press event, Mulally was asked about a luxury hybrid, and said in response, "nothing I can talk about right now". IMO, Volvo & Lincoln are two solid bets for hybrid technology. Volvo because its clientele just love that kind of touchy/feely stuff, and Lincoln because, let's be perfectly frank with each other, Lincolns are not known for performance, and with Ford trying to stake out a 'no compromises' luxury attitude with Lincoln, being able to enjoy your leather and wood while being socially responsible works. Ford will not make Toyota's mistakes and position any Lincoln hybrid as a speed demon. I'm usually in agreement with your points of view Richard but this time I think you've missed the mark. It sounds like old school thinking to me and my friend the old school is over and done with. Hybrids don't sell well because Toyota has a "touchy/feely clientele". They sell 175 thousand Prius cars a year mostly because gas is still bumping around the $3.00 a gallon mark and people are tired of paying it. Look GM is going to have 1 million cars a year that run on hydrogen just five years from now. In certain areas in Europe there are already stretches of highway that have hydrogen filling stations. Every manufacturer is seriously developing alternative fuel vehicles. E85 is already seeing increases though the jury is out as to weather it's a viable option as far as I'm concerned. Regardless, the fact remains, the age of the gasoline powered engine dominance of the automotive world is coming to an end. In light of that I feel it's a mistake to relegate the use of hybrid cars to the so called "touchy/feely" crowd as somehow less or outside the mainstream. Conservation of fuel and vehicles that deliver ever more miles per gallon are not simply fashionable items for the super rich. They will become mainstream in short order and it would be a mistake at this early stage to dismiss them out of hand as vehicles for people who are just trying to feel socially responsible. As far as making a hybrid a "speed demon", it is entirely possible. I've seen some purely electric powered vehicles that will easily outrun just about any high dollar super car you can think of. I don't have to tell you the massive amounts of torque that electric motors produce. The potential for these cars to be made into unabashed high performance cars is without doubt. It's only a matter of time and development. This is likely the direction the auto industry will take in the years to come. I think it would be a mistake to discount it as a passing fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 Hybrids haven't worked well for Lexus, and they haven't worked well for Honda. In both cases, they are pitched as performance options. Fact is, people that buy luxury cars, by and large, will buy a hybrid to make a statement. They can afford the gas--they want to be -seen- doing something for the environment. When your hybrid is pitched as a barn burner, it's pretty hard to make an eco-friendly statement. The kind of people that buy Volvos are already making a statement of sorts. Safety matters and all that. Adding eco-friendly credentials to the passenger friendly Volvo mystique just makes sense. Understand I'm not talking the reality of realities here. I'm talking the reality of perceptions. People that buy luxury cars are saying something about themselves, and the message works better when it harmonizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 The kind of people that buy Volvos are already making a statement of sorts. Safety matters and all that. Adding eco-friendly credentials to the passenger friendly Volvo mystique just makes sense. I bought a Volvo not because I'm making a statement about being safe but because it is in fact a very safe car. Now I'd agree that both safe and better gas mileage would be great but I have to say from my own point of view I'm not trying to make statements with my car. If I want to make statements I'll say something. lol I understand what you mean but I just hope you are not implying that the hybrid technology is something that should only belong to people who are willing to pay 50 or 60 grand for a car. I think the success of a lot of 23 grand Prius's leaving the lots is proof enough that saving money at the pump is an idea the rank and file citizenry are interested in as well. One need look no further than the plummeting SUV sales in this country to see that. Gas hit $3.00 a gallon and pretty quickly people were flocking back to 4 cylinder sedans. Personally I'm rather excited about the prospect of what sort of technology we will see develop to move us around in the years to come. Don't misunderstand, I'm not a supporter of the whole global warming hysteria and I think the Sierra club has some really whacked out ideas. But I think it's a good idea from a localized health point of view to provide some means for our population to be able to live in urban areas that are not plagued by smog from vehicle emissions. Also, I just detest the idea of handing over trillions of dollars of American money to a bunch of crooked ass Sheiks and Emirs who will then placate to certain social factions in their respective countries that want to blame the United States for all of their ills. All the while their ills are caused by the fact that the wealth there is held by a few and controlled by them while they let their countrymen live in poverty. But that's another issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 I'm just talking about how you market hybrids to luxury buyers. It has to be done in a way that makes sense for the brand, otherwise, people will just yawn and move on. Eventually, costs will come down, they always have--- Until then, hybrids are loss leaders, so you should at least get some positive PR for your efforts.... I'm not saying don't sell 'em for $26k, I'm saying, if you're going to sell 'em for $26k get something for your efforts. BTW, Prius have terrible tires from the factory. If you buy the LT reports, they're toast by 20k or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 R&T, the first 9 months of ownership, spent more on routine maintenance for a Prius than they did a Jag XJ8. Food for thought, especially since the Jag had more miles on it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 (edited) R&T, the first 9 months of ownership, spent more on routine maintenance for a Prius than they did a Jag XJ8.Richard, I'd love to see the article on that with a link please because the only thing I can find with reference to this is from the R&T long term Prius test which stated. Glancing at R&T’s Car Board, the Prius is rivaling our long-term Jaguar XJ8 in terms of sign-ups. Certainly this is due to its spaciousness and because it’s going through that “novelty” phase for the moment. But it’s also because Toyota has given us a car that is incredibly efficient, yet has enough power to get out of its own way on the road. How can you not respect that? Additionally, this is a May 2007 article about a 2004 Prius and in it there was the following. Repair costs to date $0Maintenance costs to date $120 Hardly what I would call high maintenance costs Richard. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...article_id=1339 Additionally Edmunds has an article about the cost of owning a Hybrid in which they state. Regular maintenanceMost hybrid cars do not require any additional regular maintenance on the hybrid-specific components. One exception is an air filter on the battery system of the Ford Escape Hybrid, which needs to be replaced every 40,000 miles. The gasoline engine in a hybrid vehicle requires the same maintenance that it would if it were the only power source driving the vehicle. That means oil changes every 5,000-10,000 miles depending on the vehicle and the driving conditions. In ordinary vehicles the brake pads need to be changed regularly. But because of the regenerative braking systems in hybrids, the brake pads typically last much longer. In regenerative braking systems, the electric motor becomes a generator and captures energy that would be lost when the vehicle's brakes are applied or when the vehicle is coasting. The energy is transformed into electricity, which recharges the batteries and can be reused to increase fuel-efficiency. Additionally, reduced heat means less wear on the brakes. "We've seen customers go 85,000 miles before they needed to replace their brakes on their Prius vehicles," says Toyota's Hermance. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/...08/article.htmlBTW, Prius have terrible tires from the factory. The article I read said they were Goodyear all season tires. I'm not saying they aren't toast by 20K miles but we can't really blame it on the Japanese automaker if the American tires are crappy can we? Don't do this Richard, you only hurt your own credibility. We all know that you are well versed with regards to the topic of the auto industry, but don't allow your love of Fords to cause you to make false statements about some damned Toyota. I'm not crazy about them as a company either but lets at least be above the board and straight up about their products, else we only cheat ourselves. Edited May 20, 2007 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Don't do this Richard, you only hurt your own credibility. I'm not making this up, as I was completely flabbergasted by the data when I saw it. This was from a 2004 era R&T long term test (both the XJ8 & Prius were new)--I don't know if it's online, but it sure is in print. I'll try and dig up the actual article. I'm not going to go to all the trouble of scanning it and uploading it (sister borrowed my scanner and it died on her), but I'll post the issue and page numbers. As far as the durability of the tires is concerned, it's been more than R&T that's mentioned that. http://www.soultek.com/clean_energy/hybrid...l_tire_wear.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maugau Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid. Will be equiped with at 2.5 L I-4 HEV Still Second Gen though. Confidant saw one at Pikes Peak not too long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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