Fusion Hybrid

[ANTAUS]

I believe the reason that a bench seating is not offered is probably for the same reason you can't get a factory Landau roof. Thats not where Ford wants to be. Also, I believe that the AWD driveline is also an issue. As it is, have you seen the narrow footwells the new Taurus has?

[joihan777]

I'm just too used to having an armrest for my right arm. I owned a vehicle with a bench seat (85 F150) and I have no plans on going back to a vehicle without an armrest for my right arm, I always drive holding the wheel with my right hand as my arm rests on the armrest.

Most truck bench seats have a center backrest that flips down to provide a very comfortable armrest and quite a decent sized storage bin. In my Toyota Sienna the middle seat of the middle row backrest folds down to provide outboard passengers an armrest with cupholders even. That seat provides a shoulder/ lap belt too.

 

The middle front seat doesn't need to be too big either, as that seat is usually suited for children..... or cozyin' up on long drives so the center driveline hump wouldn't pose a problem.

 

It'd be nice to at least have it as an option. (Flexiblility is good)

 

And for what it's worth, a 6 passenger sedan/ wagon might lure customers away from thirsty SUV's, which would give Ford breathing room in corporate fuel efficiency rating.

This idea may be better suited for the new Taurus initially.

Edited May 12, 2007 by joihan777

[RichardJensen]

Hold on a second on the "front bench on the Taurus"

 

The Taurus is AWD capable, and would have as a matter of course a sizable driveshaft hump--but for reasons not clearly known the front half of the D3 driveshaft tunnel is h-u-g-e. a center bench would be little more than an inch of padding on top of the floorpan. Yowch.

[BlackHorse]

While we are on the subject, I test drove a Prius the other day. I must admit I was somewhat impressed but that's another topic. During the course of the test drive the salesman did say that the upcoming Fusion hybrid would be using the Toyota technology. I had mentioned that I was going to wait and test drive the Fusion hybrid before I made any decision. So, is it true that Ford will be essentially sub-leasing the technology from Toyota or is it an all Ford system. Personally I'd much rather see an all American hybrid system that's every bit as good or better than the Japanese offerings. What do we know about this?

[sullynd]

During the course of the test drive the salesman did say that the upcoming Fusion hybrid would be using the Toyota technology.

 

What do we know about this?

 

That it's a complete, and utter, lie. Ford has their own hybrid system. The system used in the Escape was similar enough in concept to Toyotas system that the two entered into a patent sharing agreement. The system used in the Fusion will be the next generation of the Ford system.

Edited May 14, 2007 by sullynd

[Meelaan]

That it's a complete, and utter, lie. Ford has their own hybrid system. The system used in the Escape was similar enough in concept to Toyotas system that the two entered into a patent sharing agreement. The system used in the Fusion will be the next generation of the Ford system.

 

I think the salesman innocently meant that Ford and Toyota's hybrid systems are similar. They're the same type of hybrid system: electric motor assist hybrid gasoline.

 

GM, for instance, prefers a cheaper solution where batteries fed by the brakes are the sole assist mechanism rather than an electric motor.

 

So, in essence, the salesman is correct. Ford does have the same TYPE of system as Toyota.

[NickF1011]

I think the salesman innocently meant that Ford and Toyota's hybrid systems are similar. They're the same type of hybrid system: electric motor assist hybrid gasoline.

 

GM, for instance, prefers a cheaper solution where batteries fed by the brakes are the sole assist mechanism rather than an electric motor.

 

So, in essence, the salesman is correct. Ford does have the same TYPE of system as Toyota.

 

I've known plenty of salesman and I was one. It was very unlikely it was an innocent slip of words. He was trying to make the brand he was selling sound superior, plain and simple. I'll admit I did it all the time...not so much flat out lies, but "convenient omissions" were commonplace. :lol:

[BlackHorse]

In this particular instance the salesman distinctly said that the Ford system was really Toyota technology. I just called my Ford dealer and asked him when the Fusion hybrid was due out. He didn't know but he did say "Look, just give us an opportunity to put out two cents in when our hybrid arrives that's all we ask." Of course I'm going to give him a chance. I have to admit though, there's some nifty cool things about that Prius that I really like. The key fob no key system for the door locks and starting, the all digital dash layout, nice JBL sound system, interactive touch screen controls, reversing camera is standard and all at 23,000. That's not bad fellas. I hope this Fusion Hybrid can deliver such goods I really do because I'd rather keep my dollars American, but I have to go with the best bang for the buck you know what I mean?

[swenson88]

In this particular instance the salesman distinctly said that the Ford system was really Toyota technology. I just called my Ford dealer and asked him when the Fusion hybrid was due out. He didn't know but he did say "Look, just give us an opportunity to put out two cents in when our hybrid arrives that's all we ask." Of course I'm going to give him a chance. I have to admit though, there's some nifty cool things about that Prius that I really like. The key fob no key system for the door locks and starting, the all digital dash layout, nice JBL sound system, interactive touch screen controls, reversing camera is standard and all at 23,000. That's not bad fellas. I hope this Fusion Hybrid can deliver such goods I really do because I'd rather keep my dollars American, but I have to go with the best bang for the buck you know what I mean?

 

 

I would assume the Fusion hybrid would compare more similarly to the Camry hybrid, which starts at $26,200. However, given Ford's need to undercut the competition on price I would also assume the Fusion hybrid will come in at least $1K lower than the Camry hybrid. IIRC the Prius is actually a smaller car, more similar in size to a Corolla or Focus than a Camry or Fusion.

[BlackHorse]

I would assume the Fusion hybrid would compare more similarly to the Camry hybrid, which starts at $26,200. However, given Ford's need to undercut the competition on price I would also assume the Fusion hybrid will come in at least $1K lower than the Camry hybrid. IIRC the Prius is actually a smaller car, more similar in size to a Corolla or Focus than a Camry or Fusion.

 

If they can get me to between 24 and 25 on the Fusion hybrid I'd be willing to talk. But again the option content will play a factor. With respect to the size, yes the Fusion is a slightly larger car, but honestly the interior space of the Prius is fairly ample, particularly so in the back seat where you would expect a compact car to be less than adequate. In the case of the Prius it has surprisingly good leg room, easily on par with the Fusion. Then I have to factor in that 80% of my driving is just me and typically not more than 1 passenger when I do have passengers. I was tempted to drive the Camry hybrid and may yet go give it a try, but I'd really like to see the Ford offerings first. Hurry the hell up Ford!!!!

[ZanatWork]

If the quality of the chassis feedback matters at all, you'll never consider a modern Toyota.

[igor]

Black Horse .... if you look at the 08 Escape hybrid sticker it shows how the mileage "would have been rated, had it been tested by 07 metrics" I do not know how Ford got this number, but it is on par and slightly above Camry Hybrid's 39/41

 

The Escape still uses the old system, while Fusion will have an all new system, so the old system seems to get similar mileage to a lighter vehicle. Now we can only assume the new system will be even more advanced and efficient.

 

It will very unlikely the Fusion Hybrid will touch the gadgetry appeal of the Prius, after all the Prius is built as a gadget - instantly recognized and appreciated as a hybrid - Fusion, like the Camry hybrid will be much more toned down. However the above posters were right - the Prius is built on the Corolla Platform - sure it is roomy enough, but it is no midsize.

 

The mileage appeal of the Prius will likely diminish once the 08 metrics get on its sticker: 45/45 .. not that much better than say 38/38 the Civic Hybrid gets, or the 34/35 (IIRC) of the Camry Hybrid.

 

However - if what you want is a Prius for it being a Prius, the Fusion will not likely satisfy you .. if the Camry Hybrid, the Civic hybrid and the Altima Hybrid are still in your interest field, then Fusion Hybrid is likely going to be a compelling choice.

 

The final thing to consider is that the Fusion Hybrid will unlikely be out any earlier than this time next year .... I do not have the final info yet, but you should account for that possibility as well.

 

Igor

Edited May 16, 2007 by igor

[FordBuyer]

Black Horse .... if you look at the 08 Escape hybrid sticker it shows how the mileage "would have been rated, had it been tested by 07 metrics" I do not know how Ford got this number, but it is on par and slightly above Camry Hybrid's 39/41

 

The Escape still uses the old system, while Fusion will have an all new system, so the old system seems to get similar mileage to a lighter vehicle. Now we can only assume the new system will be even more advanced and efficient.

 

It will very unlikely the Fusion Hybrid will touch the gadgetry appeal of the Prius, after all the Prius is built as a gadget - instantly recognized and appreciated as a hybrid - Fusion, like the Camry hybrid will be much more toned down. However the above posters were right - the Prius is built on the Corolla Platform - sure it is roomy enough, but it is no midsize.

 

The mileage appeal of the Prius will likely diminish once the 08 metrics get on its sticker: 45/45 .. not that much better than say 38/38 the Civic Hybrid gets, or the 34/35 (IIRC) of the Camry Hybrid.

 

However - if what you want is a Prius for it being a Prius, the Fusion will not likely satisfy you .. if the Camry Hybrid, the Civic hybrid and the Altima Hybrid are still in your interest field, then Fusion Hybrid is likely going to be a compelling choice.

 

The final thing to consider is that the Fusion Hybrid will unlikely be out any earlier than this time next year .... I do not have the final info yet, but you should account for that possibility as well.

 

Igor

 

 

When comparing Prius with not yet introduced Hybrid Fusion one improtant function is being left out....handling and fun to drive. The Prius is a very numb feeling vehicle as it was built for fuel mileage ostensibly. The tires on Prius are roll resistant and give little support in tight turns and curves. It is allaround a very sedate vehicle. On the other hand, the Fusion is a drivers car and is fun to drive, especially on curvy road with good accelaration. I suspect the Hybrid Fusion will offer same handling and fun to drive quotient. In my view, the Hybrid Fusion has potential to be a much more satisfying vehicle in every way plus significanly increase gas mileage. Also don't forget the new 3.5 liter V6 was designed for hybrid use also.

 

Currently drive 2002 Taurus SES Sport,

Mike

[Anthony]

I saw an Altima Hybrid yesterday. I didn't even know they were out yet.

 

Funny thing out here in NY...Civic and Prius hybrids are allowed in the HOV lanes with a single occupant.....but not the Escape (or any other hybrid that I know of).

 

Heck, being allowed in the HOV lane by myself (and bypassing hours of traffic on my crummy commute) would get me in a hybrid regardless of mileage. If the Fusion gets the HOV lane exemption, I can guarantee it would be a great selling point out here in NY. (The program is called "CleanPass")

 

More info on CleanPass HERE

Edited May 16, 2007 by Intrepidatious

[NickF1011]

I saw an Altima Hybrid yesterday. I didn't even know they were out yet.

 

Funny thing out here in NY...Civic and Prius hybrids are allowed in the HOV lanes with a single occupant.....but not the Escape (or any other hybrid that I know of).

 

Heck, being allowed in the HOV lane by myself (and bypassing hours of traffic on my crummy commute) would get me in a hybrid regardless of mileage. If the Fusion gets the HOV lane exemption, I can guarantee it would be a great selling point out here in NY. (The program is called "CleanPass")

 

More info on CleanPass HERE

 

A lot of areas are rescinding those HOV rules. Virginia and DC initially allowed hybrids to use HOV lanes and has since stopped the practice. Maryland was considering letting them use HOV lanes, but the legislation stalled. Good, I say.

[akirby]

Black Horse .... if you look at the 08 Escape hybrid sticker it shows how the mileage "would have been rated, had it been tested by 07 metrics" I do not know how Ford got this number, but it is on par and slightly above Camry Hybrid's 39/41

 

The 2007 tests are still done for 2008 - they just added more tests for 2008 that get averaged together. So it is possible to calculate both the 07 and 08 numbers given the actual test results.

[igor]

When comparing Prius with not yet introduced Hybrid Fusion one improtant function is being left out....handling and fun to drive. The Prius is a very numb feeling vehicle as it was built for fuel mileage ostensibly. The tires on Prius are roll resistant and give little support in tight turns and curves. It is allaround a very sedate vehicle. On the other hand, the Fusion is a drivers car and is fun to drive, especially on curvy road with good accelaration. I suspect the Hybrid Fusion will offer same handling and fun to drive quotient. In my view, the Hybrid Fusion has potential to be a much more satisfying vehicle in every way plus significanly increase gas mileage. Also don't forget the new 3.5 liter V6 was designed for hybrid use also.

 

Currently drive 2002 Taurus SES Sport,

Mike

 

1) Yes, the handling is a Factor .. but that is why I tried to see whether he is even considering other Hybrids - Altima, Camry, Civic ... other than Prius .. if he only likes the Prius and waits on the Fusion, the Fusion will not satisfy him .. otherwise the other Hybrids would be attractive to him as well

 

2) as far as I know Ford has no plans to offer V6 hybrid in the future .. they had those plans, but scrapped them past May. It may have changed since then, however.

 

Igor

[igor]

The 2007 tests are still done for 2008 - they just added more tests for 2008 that get averaged together. So it is possible to calculate both the 07 and 08 numbers given the actual test results.

thanks for the info .. did not know that.

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

2) as far as I know Ford has no plans to offer V6 hybrid in the future .. they had those plans, but scrapped them past May. It may have changed since then, however.

 

Igor

 

V6 hybrids could still have a place in vehicles like the Explorer and Edge. Even people buying larger vehicles like to get good fuel economy. If the new hybrid system is as adaptable as early reports indicate, you would almost think it's a no-brainer.

[Meelaan]

The major issues dooming the Accord Hybrid is the fact that it's only available with the V6, costs over $31,000, and gets only a modest improvement in fuel economy (25/34 compared to 20/29). It doesn't make sense to make a hybrid V6. I hope Ford doesn't end up repeating those same mistakes.

 

Having an assist motor makes up for a majority of the horsepower lost from dropping from six to four cylinders. I forsee the existing 2.3L powertrain from the Escape Hybrid being fitted for the Fusion. The wait is in getting the system adapted for the different dimensions of the vehicle. The regenerative braking technology has to be integrated into the Fusion's existing mechanics, for instance.

[NickF1011]

The major issues dooming the Accord Hybrid is the fact that it's only available with the V6, costs over $31,000, and gets only a modest improvement in fuel economy (25/34 compared to 20/29). It doesn't make sense to make a hybrid V6. I hope Ford doesn't end up repeating those same mistakes.

 

It doesn't make sense having a V6 hybrid in a midsize car, but it would certainly make sense in larger vehicles where V6's are already the base motors. A V6 hybrid in the Explorer that managed mid-high 20's combined fuel economy would probably be a hot item.

[igor]

It doesn't make sense having a V6 hybrid in a midsize car, but it would certainly make sense in larger vehicles where V6's are already the base motors. A V6 hybrid in the Explorer that managed mid-high 20's combined fuel economy would probably be a hot item.

I would rather see a diesel in an Explorer - not a Hybrid .. but what do I know - I am European

 

Igor

[igor]

The major issues dooming the Accord Hybrid is the fact that it's only available with the V6, costs over $31,000, and gets only a modest improvement in fuel economy (25/34 compared to 20/29). It doesn't make sense to make a hybrid V6. I hope Ford doesn't end up repeating those same mistakes.

 

Having an assist motor makes up for a majority of the horsepower lost from dropping from six to four cylinders. I forsee the existing 2.3L powertrain from the Escape Hybrid being fitted for the Fusion. The wait is in getting the system adapted for the different dimensions of the vehicle. The regenerative braking technology has to be integrated into the Fusion's existing mechanics, for instance.

the hybrid system is not related to the Escape system .. actually there would be a lot of work required in fitting the Escape system ANYWHERE outside the Escape, because that system was designed specifically for that application,

 

Luckily, Ford took the opportunity and developed an all new hybrid system, that will not only improve the efficiency, but will be more flexible (modular0 so its transfer to other applications will be easier (I can't think of other application than escape and Fusion though).

 

Igor

Edited May 16, 2007 by igor

[NickF1011]

I would rather see a diesel in an Explorer - not a Hybrid .. but what do I know - I am European

 

Igor

 

Diesel would be nice. I really wish they'd get off their asses and give us the best of both - combining a diesel with an electric motor.

[sullynd]

I would rather see a diesel in an Explorer - not a Hybrid .. but what do I know - I am European

 

Beyond the Explorer, Lincoln could use a V6 Hybrid. While the Accord has had issues, Toyo has been successful with it's V6 hybrids and is now even offering a V8 hybrid (For 100k+ ).

 

The MKX and MKS could benefit from a V6 Hybrid system, I could even see it as an option on the Edge and D3s (Especially FLEX).

 

I'd really like to see Ford offer a smaller 4 banger Hybrid too. (Focus/Reflex)