igor Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070613/1476272.html?.v=2 So it seems Ford will have only about a year with exclusive LD Diesel ... but at least they will "lead" instead of "follow" Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070613/1476272.html?.v=2 So it seems Ford will have only about a year with exclusive LD Diesel ... but at least they will "lead" instead of "follow" Igor WRONG ! I don't know where you get your info, but the 4.4L is scheduled for almost exactly the same time, late 2009, 2010 MY. It will be a neck and neck ! Ford still has not "official" said where the the 4.4L will be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 WRONG ! I don't know where you get your info, but the 4.4L is scheduled for almost exactly the same time, late 2009, 2010 MY. It will be a neck and neck ! Ford still has not "official" said where the the 4.4L will be made. oh I see .. I expected the Diesel to be available in the first MY of the new F150 (even if it were a late option) .. hmm .. I hop Ford gets a whiff of this news and makes sure that they at least ANNOUCE the Diesel F150 before GM .. even if it is only by a couple months/weeks. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I thought they had already determined it will be built in Mexico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) oh I see .. I expected the Diesel to be available in the first MY of the new F150 (even if it were a late option) .. hmm .. I hop Ford gets a whiff of this news and makes sure that they at least ANNOUCE the Diesel F150 before GM .. even if it is only by a couple months/weeks. Igor More petroleum dependency. How will this help us in the long run. If we use 30% less fuel then the refineries will charge 30% more for fuel because they know what the market will bare. We need alternative fuels. Fuck the refineries! What other commodity can charge what ever they like and not lose sales. It's extortion, the less the work the more they make at the expense of our citizens!!!!!! It was only 6 months ago that diesel fuel cost more than gasoline! It almost appears that what we buy is being manipulated by the cost of fuel! Edited June 14, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 More petroleum dependency. How will this help us in the long run. If we use 30% less fuel then the refineries will charge 30% more for fuel because they know what the market will bare. We need alternative fuels. Fuck the refineries! What other commodity can charge what ever they like and not lose sales. It's extortion, the less the work the more they make at the expense of our citizens!!!!!! It was only 6 months ago that diesel fuel cost more than gasoline! It almost appears that what we buy is being manipulated by the cost of fuel! how mcuh has the price of corn rose in the past 18 months. that corn still has to be processed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 More petroleum dependency Biodeisel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Biodeisel Ageed, but we need it more readily available. I'd much rather give my money to midwest farmers than, people that want me dead. I think Stacy David did the public a favor by airing that episode! I didn't even know what biodeisel was before Spike T.V. and Trucks. But it cost $4,800 for the conversion equipment. We need to be able to buy it at regular feuling stations. He said once you own the equipment that it only cost $ .77 a gallon to make! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 There are fuel stations that sell Bio deisel. But its a grass roots movement. Once the oil companies get involved it will cost exactly as much as the market will bear. Similar to conventional deisel. There is a small group in Winston Salem NC that has banded together built a small bio deisel refiners, they also convert cars to bio deisel. Sort of like a co-op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Ageed, but we need it more readily available. I'd much rather give my money to midwest farmers than, people that want me dead. I think Stacy David did the public a favor by airing that episode! I didn't even know what biodeisel was before Spike T.V. and Trucks. But it cost $4,800 for the conversion equipment. We need to be able to buy it at regular feuling stations. He said once you own the equipment that it only cost $ .77 a gallon to make! Only 77 cents to make, but most people don't want to spend the time to do it. Time is more valuable to most people. If it was available at fueling stations, no problem, but I don't want to have to come home after work and check on my "home brew" out back behind the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swenson88 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Only 77 cents to make, but most people don't want to spend the time to do it. Time is more valuable to most people. If it was available at fueling stations, no problem, but I don't want to have to come home after work and check on my "home brew" out back behind the garage. Not to mention can these new highly-advanced diesel engines even run on the homebrew stuff? Yeah a thirty year old MB is an easy convert, as are many diesels from the 80's and 90's, but the new crop of diesel engines that are meant to run on the ULSD fuel, can they even tolerate biodiesel? Wasn't there a post just a couple months back about a guy who ruined his 2008 SuperDuty by running biodiesel? If that's the case, then biodiesel is going to have to go through the same refining as normal fuels to make it suitable for modern vehicles, thus raising the cost anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 We're all still assuming that Ford can stay on schedule with their diesel engines. Remember, they're under a handful of lawsuits from Navistar, all of which could request immediate injunctive relief. I can definitely see a world 5 years from now where Ford has a 4.4L diesel design done and ready to go, but kept under lock and key due to an injunction from a judge that isn't fully familiar with the whole story. They'll also have a 6. something large diesel ready to replace the 6.4L, but can't go into production on that one as Navistar will likely have an injunction on that one two. Ford will have to let the Navistar contract fully expire before they can even tool for the other engine. Thusly, making Ford, as usual, late to the parade. All because they had to go to Navistar for their diesels and couldn't bear to keep development in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 hmm .. I hope Ford gets a whiff of this news and makes sure that they at least ANNOUCE the Diesel F150 before GM .. even if it is only by a couple months/weeks. Igor There was an "unofficial" announcement by a retired Ford Exec (I can no longer find it on the web) last year. He was wrong ! What I heard a couple of weeks ago, from people actually working on the program, it will be a late 2010MY introduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I thought they had already determined it will be built in Mexico Unofficial. I have not gotten anyone "inside" to confirm it, but it is probably correct ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Not to mention can these new highly-advanced diesel engines even run on the homebrew stuff? Yeah a thirty year old MB is an easy convert, as are many diesels from the 80's and 90's, but the new crop of diesel engines that are meant to run on the ULSD fuel, can they even tolerate biodiesel? Wasn't there a post just a couple months back about a guy who ruined his 2008 SuperDuty by running biodiesel? If that's the case, then biodiesel is going to have to go through the same refining as normal fuels to make it suitable for modern vehicles, thus raising the cost anyways. New diesel engine will run on good quality biodiesel just fine. The question is, how careful are the homebrewers ? I have heard there are issues at low temps (< 20 degrees), but blending with dino diesel solves this. There was even a proposal to allow B20 (maximum 20% biodiesel blended in to regular diesel) to be sold as regular diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 We're all still assuming that Ford can stay on schedule with their diesel engines. Remember, they're under a handful of lawsuits from Navistar, all of which could request immediate injunctive relief. I can definitely see a world 5 years from now where Ford has a 4.4L diesel design done and ready to go, but kept under lock and key due to an injunction from a judge that isn't fully familiar with the whole story. They'll also have a 6. something large diesel ready to replace the 6.4L, but can't go into production on that one as Navistar will likely have an injunction on that one two. Ford will have to let the Navistar contract fully expire before they can even tool for the other engine. Thusly, making Ford, as usual, late to the parade. All because they had to go to Navistar for their diesels and couldn't bear to keep development in house. William Shakespeare said, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." Navistar is desperate ! They are on the verge of going bankrupt (But, then again, so is Ford !) Not that I have seen the documents, but I believe that the current contract between Ford and Navistar has a guaranteed volume clause in it and I believe it expires in 2011 or 2012. ITEC (International Truck and Engine Corp, a wholly owned subsidiary of Navistar) will not let Ford out of this obligation, short of paying for the engines and not accepting delivery. The last lawsuit said something about infringing on ITEC patents, but the 4.4L is a direct decedent of the Ford/PSA Lion diesel in Europe so I don't think that case has a lot of merit. The injection system on the 4.4l is outsourced. The "after treatment" on the current 6.4L and the future 4.4L is Ford owned (Navistar may have joint ownership on the 6.4L after treatment system.) Right now the lawyers are p*ssing on each others shoes and telling the other guy, "It must be raining !" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 what is the power ratings on this 4.5L diesel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I'll bet money that Ford gets beat by GM, and maybe others.. It takes Ford a full decade to build a V8.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy8768 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Im sure you all remember what happened last time Ford rushed a diesel engine onto the market. The 6.0 liter"Powerbroke". or Sick.0 if you prefer. GM had recently come out eith the Duramax so they were in a big hurry to get their new diesel motor into the Super Duties. How did that turn out for them? :fan: Ford shouldnt go rushing anything right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford-150 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Im sure you all remember what happened last time Ford rushed a diesel engine onto the market. The 6.0 liter"Powerbroke". or Sick.0 if you prefer. GM had recently come out eith the Duramax so they were in a big hurry to get their new diesel motor into the Super Duties. How did that turn out for them? :fan: Ford shouldnt go rushing anything right now. it turned out being that ford was the #1 diesel truck supplier in that market in the country oh damn i just replied to your post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiehaskell Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Ageed, but we need it more readily available. I'd much rather give my money to midwest farmers than, people that want me dead. I think Stacy David did the public a favor by airing that episode! I didn't even know what biodeisel was before Spike T.V. and Trucks. But it cost $4,800 for the conversion equipment. We need to be able to buy it at regular feuling stations. He said once you own the equipment that it only cost $ .77 a gallon to make!$4,800? $2500 for this one: http://www.homebiodieselkits.com/homeprocessors.html Or, you can build your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Im sure you all remember what happened last time Ford rushed a diesel engine onto the market. The 6.0 liter"Powerbroke". or Sick.0 if you prefer. GM had recently come out eith the Duramax so they were in a big hurry to get their new diesel motor into the Super Duties. How did that turn out for them? :fan: Ford shouldnt go rushing anything right now. With a Banks six gun, propane injection, and a dry nitrous kit that sick.0 safely makes 1,149 ft. lbs. of torque at 967 horses to the ground in a Superduty! I guess it's a failure, HUH!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommy8768 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Yeah OK...how longs it gonna last with all that shit on it? They pop head gaskets in stock configuration. You know how Ford loves to warranty 6.0s with aftermarket accessories. Thats one of the problems with 6.0s-people buy them as a commuter vehicle to go back and forth to work. Unless youre hauling a 12k pound trailer you DON'T NEED a Powerstroke diesel for your daily putt-putt to the office. Then they put chips, and exhaust and other doo-dads on them. Ive seen it all. If its still under warranty-DON'T FUCK WITH IT!!!! Fords looking for any excuse or whiff of abuse or mods so they can deny your warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I'll bet money that Ford gets beat by GM, and maybe others.. It takes Ford a full decade to build a V8.. Although the base engine is being design in Europe, they have had prototypes driving around Dearborn since early 2007 ! Still lots of work to do. Emission standards are different for under 6000 GVW (F150). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss96racing Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Biodeisel well if only they could keep it from doing this at 50 degrees.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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