wescoent Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I've been staying pretty up to speed on the situation with the Focus, so here's my take: Everything I've read indicates that the main difference between C170 and C1 is weight and refinement. The C170 chassis is still an excellent architecture, retaining IRS where almost all of its competitors have BEAM axles, and still fun to drive and balanced. The C1 is heavier and less sporty. The 2005 redesign was a step backwards, making the Focus boring with a bad interior. So, for 2008, that problem was CORRECTED. I was overjoyed to see the redesigned Focus. It looks European, modern, and edgy. In person, it looks excellent, and I would have no qualms about driving one in the right color. Lots of people (including myself) find the Honda Civic to be openly repulsive, yet it's setting records with sales. But, to put this into perspective, C2 cannot get here fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 But, to put this into perspective, C2 cannot get here fast enough. Amen! Bringing over C1 at this point in time would be as wrong as sticking with C170 in the first place, and two wrongs don't make a right. I suppose you could mourn the absence of the C1 Focus for a few more years.... Or you could get on with your life. Face it, there's no such thing as a time machine. You can't go back in time and develop a NA C1 Focus. It's not coming. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 In case anyone is taking notes, I just think the ST review by Clarkson is incredibly surprising, as I haven't heard him praise anything so much other than an Aston Martin/Jaguar side-by-side he did. Yeah, I think he's a blowhard/jerk, but a quite amusing one. I don't know what the answer is for Ford NA in the C-size, but hopefully the C2 helps. No one wins arguments on the internet, ladies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) I never said it's a bad car but people think that importing it will solve all of Fords problems and shit. I think I posted some pics of my Focus but they were too pathetic (old cell), I got a new K800i with a 3.2 MP camera if you guys want to but seriously you people are freaking giving too much credit. But you cannot ignore the simple fact that the C1 Focus is a proven competitor, which cannot be said about the Norh American current Focus. LincolnFan, you need to take a week or two trip to North America and reaquaint yourself with the Focus here, and I am sure you will appreciate the "major" differences these two Focus vehicles exhibit, especially in the substance and quality departments. Edited June 19, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I challenge - nay, I defy - anyone to come up with a video clip from any source, biased or unbiased, that makes the U.S. Focus look that attractive. You can't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I challenge - nay, I defy - anyone to come up with a video clip from any source, biased or unbiased, that makes the U.S. Focus look that attractive. You can't do it. It's a fine looking car no doubt of that. I still have to wonder how much a car like that would cost here, with the turbocharged Volvo motor and the adjustable sensitivity on the steering and what not. I guess our best barometer of that will be when the C30 arrives at Volvo lots later this year. A Mazda Speed 3 runs about 23 to 25 grand on average and they surely sell a lot more of the regular 3. So the question then becomes, does the regular C1 Focus look this cool, this aggressive, this sporty or is it a lesser model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 It's a fine looking car no doubt of that. I still have to wonder how much a car like that would cost here, with the turbocharged Volvo motor and the adjustable sensitivity on the steering and what not. I guess our best barometer of that will be when the C30 arrives at Volvo lots later this year. A Mazda Speed 3 runs about 23 to 25 grand on average and they surely sell a lot more of the regular 3. So the question then becomes, does the regular C1 Focus look this cool, this aggressive, this sporty or is it a lesser model. The "regular" C1 Focus literally is a CLONE of the 2005+ US Focus. There is NO visual exterior difference beyond minor detailing. The interior of the C1 is of higher quality, for sure, but thats pretty much it. The Focus ST you see in the video would retail around $30,000 here. Although good, it's NOT Evo/sTI good, nor even Mazdaspeed 3 good. And my ASS the North American Focus isn't a proven competitor. It took Japan 10 years to catch up, and even so, JUST BARELY. The Focus is always ranked among the likes of the Corolla and Civic in comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well there you have it then. As nice as this Focus ST is, and it is a nice car, I just don't think Americans are going to be lining up to pay 30K for it, especially when you can get the Mazda Speed 3 for at least 5 thousand dollars less and it's a faster car with an equally as nice interior. If the bread and butter C1 Focus looks just like our Focus then they can surely keep it because personally I don't like ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro-man Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 All true. And we do have video clips of our beloved Mustang that make the Focus ST look like the librarian's Corolla. I guess it's the Mazdaspeed 3 then, for those that want this type of car here. That's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 A C-30 might be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 A C-30 might be nice. Yes, quite nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 The "regular" C1 Focus literally is a CLONE of the 2005+ US Focus. There is NO visual exterior difference beyond minor detailing. The interior of the C1 is of higher quality, for sure, but thats pretty much it. The Focus ST you see in the video would retail around $30,000 here. Although good, it's NOT Evo/sTI good, nor even Mazdaspeed 3 good. That price is bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) That price is bullshit Quite right, it is and since you didn't bother to say what price isn't "bullshit" that tells me you really didn't know. Did any of you really think I wouldn't know the answer to the question, even before I asked it? You've not been paying attention. I speced out a Focus ST on the UK Ford website, pretty well equipped, nothing short of what Jeremy Clarkson was driving in that video. So I know for a fact that $30,000 US dollars is bullshit for that car. In fact the price I came up with after conversion is $47,389. US. You can check for yourself if you like smart ass. The car http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/foc_c307/-/foc_c3...fig/-/-/-/2006# I built one with Recaro Leather Seats, the Key Free System, Advanced Blue Tooth Hands Free, Touch Screen DVD Navigation System, Park Assist -rear parking sensors, Sun Roof and sport apperance pack. The conversion http://coinmill.com/GBP_USD.html In point of fact the Focus ST even in its most stripped down no frills version is 18,000. pounds In US dollars that is. $35,657. So to be fair gamble, wescont erred on the side of underpricing it. If any of you really believe Americans are going to pay 35 to 47 grand for a Focus here in the US, you're smoking crack, get real. This debate is over. You know what's really funny, a stripped down totally entry level Focus in the UK is priced at 12,945. pounds. In U.S. dollars that is $25,644. Anyone here think Americans will seriously pay that for an entry level Focus? Edited June 19, 2007 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 That's because they put a shitload of taxes in UK, I bought mine for 12.5K USD, but it's a freaking stripper model... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) A base C30 which IS a Focus ST starts at 22k in the USA you twits, and that is from VOLVO, who in their right mind would think a stripper C1 Focus would cost 26k? It must be an act of God that companies like VW manage to sell cars like te GTI here for less than 50 thousand dollars!! If anybody at Ford is reading this thread, please forward it to Mulally, and tell him that if anybody at Ford says any of the nonsense we see here, to fire them immediately.. What the cheerleaders are basically saying is that Ford cannot build a competitive car, so they must continue offering cheap old stuff, and losing money by doing so. Great business plan there guys, you people couldn't run a taco and ice water stand on the illegal immigrant highway in the middle of July.. Edited June 19, 2007 by Blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDoXUd9GV38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnlIXqK4dbA...ted&search= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 It must be an act of God that companies like VW manage to sell cars like te GTI here for less than 50 thousand dollars!! When its built in Mexico or Brazil you can...then lets remember VW less then stellar reliability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 If there's one thing that Ford can do that other companies have failed miserably at, its good brand management. There's another thread talking about the convertible Focus, and now the Focus ST comes up. The Volvo S40, C70, and C30 IS basically the C1 Focus, in various iterations. The Focus ST uses the Volvo inline 5 anyway. So basically, at the same price point as it would be sold here, we can buy the C1 Focus, only in Volvo form. Where people aren't going to pay 30k for a Focus, they WILL drop 30k on a Volvo. So, within a year's time, you CAN buy that Focus ST, only with a much nicer interior with all the same capabilities as the thing that Clarkson was flogging on the Top Gear runway. On top of all this bullshit, we DID sell the Focus ST here for a few years as SOME may recall. It had the SVT badge slapped on, and was promptly rejected from the marketplace as being underpowered (although a DEMON handler). And hey... look at this. At BEST, the Focus ST would retail for maybe 24-25k here, at which point, any SANE member of this board is dropping cash on a Mazdaspeed3. Like I've been saying... where the 2005 Focus fell short was exterior and interior design/quality. Ford was trying to build a Corolla just when the market started to turn towards bold styling. They also were trying to cover too wide a price point, given Ford's lack of a B-car. Even if Ford of North America got on the C1-program, the Focus would have to sell for a higher price than it did, and sales would suffer. I anticipate Focus sales to suffer when the switch is made to C2, but we'll have the Fiesta by then to pick up the slack and then some. The success of the 2008 Focus is going to be completely contigent on the associated marketing effort. Ford hasn't had a good track record, but I'm hopeful with Mullally on board, there will be a first-rate effort to promote the Focus, and get it back on the lists of small car buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) I've been staying pretty up to speed on the situation with the Focus, so here's my take: Everything I've read indicates that the main difference between C170 and C1 is weight and refinement. The C170 chassis is still an excellent architecture, retaining IRS where almost all of its competitors have BEAM axles, and still fun to drive and balanced. The C1 is heavier and less sporty. The 2005 redesign was a step backwards, making the Focus boring with a bad interior. So, for 2008, that problem was CORRECTED. I was overjoyed to see the redesigned Focus. It looks European, modern, and edgy. In person, it looks excellent, and I would have no qualms about driving one in the right color. Lots of people (including myself) find the Honda Civic to be openly repulsive, yet it's setting records with sales. But, to put this into perspective, C2 cannot get here fast enough. Do you own or drive a Focus? Have you seen the C1 Focus in the flesh? The differences are night and day in all aspects, not just weight and refinement. Go have a look at the C1, and I think you can see that the C1 is not literally a clone of the N.A. current Focus, as you stated before. As far as the N.A Focus. being a competitor, please check the sales numbers against its N.A. competitors, then check the C1 Focus sales numbers against its competitors and let me know about your ASS. I am not disputing the C170 dynamics, which IMO are much better then its competitors,but the bottom line "sales" is what my competitor comment referred to. Your the 1st that has said the N.A. 2008 Focus looks European. IMO the exterior it is very Asian looking, with very out of synch and tense lines. Edited June 19, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Do you own or drive a Focus?Have you seen the C1 Focus in the flesh? The differences are night and day in all aspects, not just weight and refinement. Go have a look at the C1, and I think you can see that the C1 is not literally a clone of the N.A. current Focus, as you stated before. As far as the N.A Focus. being a competitor, please check the sales numbers against its N.A. competitors, then check the C1 Focus sales numbers against its competitors and let me know about your ASS. I am not disputing the C170 dynamics, which IMO are much better then its competitors,but the bottom line "sales" is what my competitor comment referred to. Your the 1st that has said the N.A. 2008 Focus looks European. IMO the exterior it is very Asian looking, with very out of synch and tense lines. I have seen the C1 Focus in person (thank God for Mexico), and I have photographically compared the 2005 Focus and C1 Focus side by side. Literal clone is too strong a term, but they share every single styling cue, and the lines are virtually identical back and front. Obviously, you and I can tell the difference, but no one else I've shown the two side by side could tell the difference. I'm talking about the NORMAL models, not the ST. The Focus sells virtually the same as the Cobalt, though not even close to the Corolla and Civic, but no small car has EVER sold close to those two in recent history, and all the other competitors are miles behind. If you think bringing the C1 over here (along with AT LEAST a $2,000 premium over the C170) is going to make any difference in sales, I believe you're mistaken. Out of sync and tense lines? Have you SEEN any BMW built in the last 3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkaresh Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 By Jeremy Clarkson, believe it or not. http://myforddreams2.blogspot.com/2007/06/...r-clarkson.html Of course, this wouldn't sell here. No one would pay for it. Like others, I thought this was referring to the U.S.-market car. The UK car tends to get glowing reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) I have seen the C1 Focus in person (thank God for Mexico), and I have photographically compared the 2005 Focus and C1 Focus side by side. Literal clone is too strong a term, but they share every single styling cue, and the lines are virtually identical back and front. Obviously, you and I can tell the difference, but no one else I've shown the two side by side could tell the difference. I'm talking about the NORMAL models, not the ST. The Focus sells virtually the same as the Cobalt, though not even close to the Corolla and Civic, but no small car has EVER sold close to those two in recent history, and all the other competitors are miles behind. If you think bringing the C1 over here (along with AT LEAST a $2,000 premium over the C170) is going to make any difference in sales, I believe you're mistaken. Out of sync and tense lines? Have you SEEN any BMW built in the last 3 years? Not being in the USA, what is the price difference between Corolla,Civic, and Focus? Or a better question is what is the difference in the price paid for Corolla,Civic and Focus? Edited June 19, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) Oh man. Everytime this Focus thread gets started up its the same old big stupid assed argument as the last time. There's always some bunch of guys that actually thinks you can import a Focus ST and sell it here for 25 grand. It can't be done guys!!! Ok, it's just not economically feasible. Look. Your vehicleAll New Ford Focus (3 Door Hatchback - ST-3 - 2.5 Duratec 225 PS - 6 Speed Manual) Base price £20,022.00 Selected options Panther Black (Metallic) £350.00 Recaro Leather Ebony £0.00 Key Free System £350.00 Advanced - Bluetooth Hands Free Phone £250.00 Touchscreen DVD Navigation System £2,000.00 Park Assist - Rear Parking Sensors £200.00 Sun Roof - Power Tilt and Slide £500.00 Sport Appearance Pack £250.00 Price Summary Total price * £23,922.00 Now first of all I don't see where you're being charged sales tax in that price tag so if you do get charged sales tax it's going to be in addition to the price you see here. So this notion about high tax rates in the UK is out, rejected, disproven, gone, seeya bye. It doesn't matter how you look at it, this car is nearly 24 thousand pounds and in United States dollars that is over 47 grand. If you could import the damn thing from the UK and sell it here for 25 grand don't you think Ford would have done that by now? Think!!!! :slap: If it was that easy to bring the price down Ford would import them, turn right around and ship them back to the UK and sell them for 15 or 16 thousand pounds and still make killer profit. No matter how you look at it, if FNA decided they wanted to start selling this car here in the US, even after working out a discount with FOE its still an easy 18 to 20 thousand pound car and that is still well over 30 thousand dollars US. Then FNA has to put a profit margin on there just to cover the cost to import it. Long story short, YOU AREN'T GETTING ONE FOR 25 GRAND!! Get that through your thick skulls, do some math and quit arguing about the damn thing becase it's not going to get imported here. Edited June 19, 2007 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) I can't believe people pay $40,000 for a Focus in England .. what am I missing? £20,000 !? I can't believe people would pay that much money for a Focus. I wouldn't pay that much for a Mustang! Edited June 19, 2007 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I can't believe people pay $40,000 for a Focus in England .. what am I missing? £20,000 !? I can't believe people would pay that much money for a Focus. I wouldn't pay that much for a Mustang! Well embrace the horror SVT because these figures are straight from the Ford UK website. You can get to it by going to www.ford.com and then clicking on the global link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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