wescoent Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Get this, NOBODY likes it!! Not even on any of the Focus forums, and rightfully so, it looks like a dozen different people designed the thing, there is nothing cohesive or sleek about it. And unlike the cheerleaders here, I've actually seen it in the flesh, it's scary looking. But do continue sipping the Ford Kool-Aid... It was at all the autoshows, so it's not like you're the only one who has seen it. I saw it in New York, and I liked it very much, even more so than in photos. I also would like to see it in a variety of colors and trim levels, and I would like to sample the interior for a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) It was at all the autoshows, so it's not like you're the only one who has seen it. I saw it in New York, and I liked it very much, even more so than in photos. I also would like to see it in a variety of colors and trim levels, and I would like to sample the interior for a few minutes. Then you must be a NOBODY (at least according to Blueblood). ....and you sip Ford kool-aid too! :shades: Edited July 17, 2007 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 No, no, no. I was speaking of the Focus specifically. We already have the C1 chassis here as the S40/V50, Mazda 3 and C70. Hmmm, call me crazy but the front end of the NA version looks a lot more fresh......the everywhere else version wears the MKIII Mondeo front end and it's starting to look a little tired. I agree the same boring generic bland front end of all Fords cars in Europe is letting them down, l think its one worst in Europe, you would not mind suffering it if gave Fords cars better MPG but it does not. I am not a great fan of the Focus but l prefer the NA front end its much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The 2000 Focus had detractors, saying too Euro. SO they jury is still out on the '08. Remember 90% of car buyers are not mag reading 'enthusiasts'. Also, the chromed front end Escape which 'experts' predicted would 'bomb' is doing pretty well. Reality is buyers are not 'dying' for 400HP RWD BOF cars, nor are they wanting a $30,000 Euro C1 Focus. As I read through this thread, I just had to go back to this post as I think he has hit the nail right on the head. . . and would add that he has probably under estimated the percentage of car buyers that "are not mag reading 'enthusiasts' ". Styling, esp exterior, is a subjective personal thing and what all of you Xperts consider beautiful/fugly is your opinion - and your opinion only. Some of you guys apparently think that if you post your opinion enough times, that it is going to win over converts to your way of thinking. . . it won't. My guess is that very few (with such strong opinions) are/have never been a designer, or have ever done any market research to see what appeals to the general public. It’s sorta like listening to all of the talking heads on the financial “news” – if you follow what they say. . . you are going to loose your ass. For instance, the Prius is selling pretty good, I think most would agree, and yet I consider it one of the most unappealing cars on the road. . . up there with just about every KIA, Hyundie, and most of the ricers. The above mentioned Peugots would easily qualify in that category, but they are not sold here. However, some people like them (Euro and American tastes are different) and buy them -- as they meet their needs. Opinions are like hinies - everyone's got one. I wish some could realize this and let go of some the obvious emotions connected with same and lighten up – even if just a tad. The current Focus’ sales are up, even with the old styling, I would think that it would be apparent that many of some opinions (expressed here) are not shared by the consuming public. While many people buy a car for what they want to be seen in, what they feel about themselves (ego reinforcement etc), there are still many people that buy a car for transportation – to get where they want to go and back, what they can afford, whether it looks nice (subjective), what they hear about quality issues, meets their efficiency (mpg) and comfort, and probably many other personal issues (safety etc). Do we really need all of this name-calling and assertions that “I know what I am talking about – and you don’t . . .”? It seems to me that there will be many other factors (other than styling) that are going to play very important part of whether or not a car is going to sell. Ford apparently doesn’t think that diesels in cars are a good gamble, and from what I have seen, they may be right. Florida just announced that we are adopting Calif emissions standards and that brings it to 12 states (I think) with several more considering doing the same. Doesn’t Canada also use the CA standard? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the CAES require 25% better emissions for 2009 for cars and 18% for SUVs and another major upgrade by 2016? Aren’t we talking about 4 of the most populace states here? Where are the companies that are planning diesels going to sell their diesel cars? How long are their particulate filters going to last etc? I have also read some projections that diesels in the U.S. may grow 33% by the 2012, but hybrids may grow as much as 164% in sales. Personally I do not think we are going to see gas prices below $3/gal for any length of time in the future and just as likely, will see the north side of $4/gal in the not-to-distant-future – so fuel efficiency is going to become an even more critical standard for many people than whether a car has ‘the proper styling clues’ projected by car enthusiasts or analysts. Back in 2000, I bought my son a new ZX3 before he went off to college ( he had bought his first car used when he was 16 with money that he earned working but it was time to get increased dependability as old Dad wasn't going to be so close to help fix all those things that go wrong with used cars). We also test drove a Celica. He made the choice. His ZX3 now has 130,000+ miles on it, he still loves it, and it has been more dependable than my brother’s son new Honda (that cost 2x as much) bought one year later. Yes, he had some (mostly) A/C issues, the coil had to be replaced, and it had several recalls to replace things like a piece of moulding (for the A pillar interior – I think) and other minor things, but other than that it has been a very dependable car. He has been autocrossing it in the SCCA (doing very well thank you in a street prepared class and also in a friends ’07 Mustang GT CS with a Shelby upgrade kit), so he hasn’t exactly been babying it. His opinion. . .when are they bringing the RS (a la WRC) here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) Ever drove one? Most Focus seen in Europe look like this http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7619/mijnfocus2020bm0.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3959/mijnfocus2017nr4.jpg http://www.fordrousseau.be/images/francorchamps/P1010005.JPG http://img4.auto24.ee/auto24/560/711/7526711.jpg No none of these models in the photos are ST Seeing a sedan is very rare. Only C1 I've driven was a Mazda3. It drove well, but so does the C170 Focus. Those pictures there don't look too bold either. Look like slightly different trim versions of the C170 hatches. Nothing too special. Interior is nicer, as I mentioned before, but that's about it. Edited July 17, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) As I read through this thread, I just had to go back to this post as I think he has hit the nail right on the head. . . and would add that he has probably under estimated the percentage of car buyers that "are not mag reading 'enthusiasts' ". Styling, esp exterior, is a subjective personal thing and what all of you Xperts consider beautiful/fugly is your opinion - and your opinion only. Some of you guys apparently think that if you post your opinion enough times, that it is going to win over converts to your way of thinking. . . it won't. My guess is that very few (with such strong opinions) are/have never been a designer, or have ever done any market research to see what appeals to the general public. It’s sorta like listening to all of the talking heads on the financial “news” – if you follow what they say. . . you are going to loose your ass. For instance, the Prius is selling pretty good, I think most would agree, and yet I consider it one of the most unappealing cars on the road. . . up there with just about every KIA, Hyundie, and most of the ricers. The above mentioned Peugots would easily qualify in that category, but they are not sold here. However, some people like them (Euro and American tastes are different) and buy them -- as they meet their needs. Opinions are like hinies - everyone's got one. I wish some could realize this and let go of some the obvious emotions connected with same and lighten up – even if just a tad. The current Focus’ sales are up, even with the old styling, I would think that it would be apparent that many of some opinions (expressed here) are not shared by the consuming public. While many people buy a car for what they want to be seen in, what they feel about themselves (ego reinforcement etc), there are still many people that buy a car for transportation – to get where they want to go and back, what they can afford, whether it looks nice (subjective), what they hear about quality issues, meets their efficiency (mpg) and comfort, and probably many other personal issues (safety etc). Do we really need all of this name-calling and assertions that “I know what I am talking about – and you don’t . . .”? It seems to me that there will be many other factors (other than styling) that are going to play very important part of whether or not a car is going to sell. Ford apparently doesn’t think that diesels in cars are a good gamble, and from what I have seen, they may be right. Florida just announced that we are adopting Calif emissions standards and that brings it to 12 states (I think) with several more considering doing the same. Doesn’t Canada also use the CA standard? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the CAES require 25% better emissions for 2009 for cars and 18% for SUVs and another major upgrade by 2016? Aren’t we talking about 4 of the most populace states here? Where are the companies that are planning diesels going to sell their diesel cars? How long are their particulate filters going to last etc? I have also read some projections that diesels in the U.S. may grow 33% by the 2012, but hybrids may grow as much as 164% in sales. Personally I do not think we are going to see gas prices below $3/gal for any length of time in the future and just as likely, will see the north side of $4/gal in the not-to-distant-future – so fuel efficiency is going to become an even more critical standard for many people than whether a car has ‘the proper styling clues’ projected by car enthusiasts or analysts. Back in 2000, I bought my son a new ZX3 before he went off to college ( he had bought his first car used when he was 16 with money that he earned working but it was time to get increased dependability as old Dad wasn't going to be so close to help fix all those things that go wrong with used cars). We also test drove a Celica. He made the choice. His ZX3 now has 130,000+ miles on it, he still loves it, and it has been more dependable than my brother’s son new Honda (that cost 2x as much) bought one year later. Yes, he had some (mostly) A/C issues, the coil had to be replaced, and it had several recalls to replace things like a piece of moulding (for the A pillar interior – I think) and other minor things, but other than that it has been a very dependable car. He has been autocrossing it in the SCCA (doing very well thank you in a street prepared class and also in a friends ’07 Mustang GT CS with a Shelby upgrade kit), so he hasn’t exactly been babying it. His opinion. . .when are they bringing the RS (a la WRC) here? 2007 JD Power Survey in Europe 10,000's of owners in small cars catagory in which the Focus & Prius are grouped don't agree or share with your own individual personal view & opinion of things. You are trying to force it on folk here when a Focus could only finish 67th Overall. Sale Rep "Mondeo Man" is the only image you get from a Focus, the other is "Bargin of the year" when Fleet Rentals release them for sale to public as they have already lost 75% of it value afer a couple of years. Ford Focus rated 67th Overall http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report...&EL=3196976 Ford Mondeo rated 58th Overaul http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report...&EL=3196977 Edited July 17, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) See, this is why you're a troll, instead of posting about the topic or discussing Ford's, you're wasting people's time discussing what people are saying, making them the topic, this is Blue Oval News, not "talk about everyone who criticize's a Ford". If you don't like it, you can get lost, noobs like you wouldn't have lasted one day here 6-7 years ago when it was really rough. I've driven nothing but Ford's my whole life, know more about them than you could ever dream, and have probably made Ford a million in sales through my pressuring of everyone I've ever come in contact with to buy Ford, I won't waste one more precious second of my life trying to prove anything to you. So like I said, get on topic, or STFU. Understand? So you taking time to post about my post is different how.....I rarley post about what other people say.....but I can tell when somone has liitle to add to the convrsation....you hapeen to be one of those people.... Edited July 17, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I still can't get over all the people out there that still whine about Ford not bringing over the C1 focus from europe. If it was brough over in the euro form, it would have had to retail for well into the $20Ks to be profitable. Look at the C1s that are sold here that are in that price range. The S40 in base form could be had for mid $20s money and the sales on those things have been less than steller. That's with more HP than is available in the Mazda3, a nicer interior than even the euro focus, and the volvo nameplate on it. The Mazda3 prices and sells where it does do to very good decisions on the Mazda team's part. The put development money where it needed to be and built a very nice looking car inside and out that rides extremely well. They gave it an optional large engine that could be had with an automatic. Something that Ford couldn't be bothered to do with the Focus ST. You hardly ever see an ST running around, but, I can't count the numbers of 2.3L equipped Mazda3 sedans that I've seen. The 08 Focus should sell well enough. Compared to what's on the road now, its got as good as or better base HP, above average handling, above average interior (judging by the pictures), inoffensive exterior, slightly below average mpg numbers (if the numbers don't improve from the 07 post conversion numbers), and a better than average price. All of that speaks to solid sales numbers. No, it won't set records, but, it won't flop either. I also believe that they have made a focus in reducing the cost to assemble the vehicle so that they can at least break even on production of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Why should I care what the European Focus has won? I can't buy one here...all we got was a poorly brought over cheapened copy with 13 recalls and less then stellar reliability the first 4 years it was built. The SVT came out as an 02 Model and still had the same issues with the DSI cables and what not till its production ended. I know lots of people with SVT's and they aren't crap, I think you're just upset you got a Lemon. The Focus isn't a great car, its just a nice car in its American form and even thats a stretch... Again, you just don't know much about the car then, regardless of whether you owned one or not. Negatard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I know lots of people with SVT's and they aren't crap, I think you're just upset you got a Lemon.Again, you just don't know much about the car then, regardless of whether you owned one or not. Negatard Actually the SVT Focus had several known issues. Ours stalled for no reason, at freeway speeds. Ford put a data recorder in the car and tried everything under the sun to fix it......to no avail. Got rid of it via arbitration, and was rather sad to do so......I miss that car it was one of the most well rounded cars on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Again, you are so fucking egotistical that you think anyone who disagrees with you is sipping Ford kool-aid? Nope, 99% of people all across the net hate it and think it's the ugliest thing since the Aztek, and anybody with eyes can see it for themselves, it's blatently obvious the "Ford can do no wrong" cheerleaders here are hideously biased. How can anybody honestly look at pictures of the pig and think it looks "good"?? You're no different than the cheerleaders that you despise so much. The only difference between you and them is that you're on the other end of the spectrum. Wrong again, I call em like I see em, no BS, no political correctness, I give Ford praise for their good vehicles like the Mustang, F-150, Edge, pre-08 Focus, etc. And call them out on their crap. As for the Focus, I actually wait until the sales number come in before I say things are a failure. As for the Focus forums, they're a vary minute segment of the buying public and they aren't the arbitors of succes or failure any more than you. They dropped the 3 door hatch, 5 door hatch, wagon, and improved the interior but made the exterior look like a sheetmetal food fight, looking at the competition, I just can't imagine how on Earth they will get more or the same amount of people to buy them as are now! It's not like sales matter to the consumer anyways, if I want a good small car Ford offers nothing, I'd rather pay a few grand more for something better. To win back people from the Japanese they need a home run, and thisis the best they can do??? I swear Jack Nasser is pulling the punches still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Then you must be a NOBODY (at least according to Blueblood). ....and you sip Ford kool-aid too! :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) I still can't get over all the people out there that still whine about Ford not bringing over the C1 focus from europe. If it was brough over in the euro form, it would have had to retail for well into the $20Ks to be profitable. The Mazda3 prices and sells where it does do to very good decisions on the Mazda team's part. The put development money where it needed to be and built a very nice looking car inside and out that rides extremely well. The 08 Focus should sell well enough. Compared to what's on the road now, its got as good as or better base HP, above average handling, above average interior (judging by the pictures), inoffensive exterior, slightly below average mpg numbers (if the numbers don't improve from the 07 post conversion numbers), and a better than average price. All of that speaks to solid sales numbers. No, it won't set records, but, it won't flop either. I also believe that they have made a focus in reducing the cost to assemble the vehicle so that they can at least break even on production of it. So you are saying Mazda can do what FoAmerica could not? Why is that? Or is it just Ford propaganda that a C1 Focus would have to cost +$20,000 in America? And maybe the 08 Focus will sell "well enough", but if it still sells at a B-segment price, whats the point. Maybe instead of the reported to Mulally $3,000 lose per sale on a Focus, the lose will be smaller, or do you figure FoAmerica figured out a way to build the 08 Focus $3,000 cheaper per Focus then the current variant. Edited July 17, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Nope, 99% of people all across the net hate it and think it's the ugliest thing since the Aztek, and anybody with eyes can see it for themselves, it's blatently obvious the "Ford can do no wrong" cheerleaders here are hideously biased. How can anybody honestly look at pictures of the pig and think it looks "good"?? And what percentage of those people represent the buying public as a whole? Come one Mr. Facts, give us a number please! Wrong again, I call em like I see em, no BS, no political correctness, I give Ford praise for their good vehicles like the Mustang, F-150, Edge, pre-08 Focus, etc. And call them out on their crap. Peddle that bullshit somewhere else because NOBODY on BON is buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 And you complain about other people pointless posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 So you are saying Mazda can do what FoAmerica could not? Why is that? Or is it just Ford propaganda that a C1 Focus would have to cost +$20,000 in America? And maybe the 08 Focus will sell "well enough", but if it still sells at a B-segment price, whats the point. Maybe instead of the reported to Mulally $3,000 lose per sale on a Focus, the lose will be smaller, or do you figure FoAmerica figured out a way to build the 08 Focus $3,000 cheaper per Focus then the current variant. The big problem is that Mazda 3 is made in Japan and gets all the benifits that the come with it coming from there. As for the 08 Focus, its a filler model till the 2011/12 model. Its stop-gap for the time being and was from the pre-Mulally period at Ford. The issues that it has will be rectified by then since they will have a B-car under it and will share the same underpinnings as the model in Europe and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see production moved to Mexico to lessen the impact that legacy costs have on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 2007 JD Power Survey in Europe 10,000's of owners in small cars catagory in which the Focus & Prius are grouped don't agree or share with your own individual personal view & opinion of things. You are trying to force it on folk here when a Focus could only finish 67th Overall. JD Powers of Europe? What's that got to do with sales of Focus' in the U.S.? Europe and the U.S. are two different markets - what flies there often crashes here - and conversely. I also was not inferring that the Euro Focus should be sold here with the exception of the RS (of WRC fame) - which is my son's opinion - as he loves his ZX3 but would love to have availability of of the RS here (the States). The Focus is too small for me - I'm 6'4 and 210lbs. I wouldn't buy any compact, or sub-compact no matter what the make. Exactly where did my post indicate that I was trying "to force it <my opinion> on folk here when a Focus could only finish 67th Overall"? Please indicate the specific statement. Maybe you ought to reread my post - this time for comprehension. Personally, I have never had much faith in JD Powers in that I have personally purchased over two dozen (ah, that's like 24+) new vehicles over the past 30 years -- and have never received a JD Powers questionaire/survey once. So as far as I am concerned their stats are from a very small percentage of owners. . . and it is doubtful that it is representative . . . and typically quite different than my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 And what percentage of those people represent the buying public as a whole? Come one Mr. Facts, give us a number please! Considering nobody likes it, and it looks like hell, I'd say the general public won't like the turd either. In case you missed it, the "general public" is who is online.. Peddle that bullshit somewhere else because NOBODY on BON is buying it. The only bullshit here is coming from the mouths of cheerleaders like yourself, why don't YOU go elsewhere if you can't handle some criticism. :slap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Considering nobody likes it, and it looks like hell, I'd say the general public won't like the turd either. In case you missed it, the "general public" is who is online.. What? No specific number? Just more bullshit spin? I suppose that's because you're really don't a clue about what you're talking about and are just pulling things from your ass. The only bullshit here is coming from the mouths of cheerleaders like yourself, why don't YOU go elsewhere if you can't handle some criticism. :slap: I can handle criticism just fine. Why don't try actually giving some instead of just more useless bullshit? Actually, I'm not a cheerleader for the new Focus. I'm quite ambivalent towards it. I've seen better but I've also seen worse. At this point, I don't know how it will do with the general public (and not the relatively small group of people who visit online forums that you somehow believe rule the world). That's why I'm waiting for sales numbers before I pass judgement on it's success or failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 In case you missed it, the "general public" is who is online. Yeah. Posting on these forums. :rolleyes: You MORON. Of course MOST PEOPLE are online. But how many of them are going to REGISTER AND POST TO ENTHUSIAST MESSAGE BOARDS!!! Most of THEM have some sort of LIFE. Why don't you go and get one yourself? And before you compare post counts, might I remind you that you spend most of your time here in a foul mood, and that can't be good for you. Find something you ENJOY doing and DO IT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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