Kuga and C-Max to come to US with C2 Focus

[igor]

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/ford/fo...estined-for-us/

Ford Kuga and C-max destined for US?

Posted on Friday 20 July 2007

 

Yesterday, Ford revealed a drawing of a new compact crossover model that’s scheduled to hit European showrooms early next year where it joins other spectacular Blue Oval models such as the C-Max MPV as well as the new Mondeo sedan and Focus hatch.

 

Now, Ford CEO Alan Mulally and product development boss Derrick Kuzak are reported to be interested in bringing some of these models to the US, namely, the C-max MPV and upcoming Kuga crossover. The move is part of Ford’s push for smaller and more economical models, which may also see some platform sharing for future US designed models.

 

One car that has been ruled out is the award-winning S-Max as it was deemed too expensive, an inside source has revealed to AutomobilWoche. Instead, product planners in the US will look at other models based on Ford’s C-platform design such as the new Kuga, but any introduction is still three to four years away.

 

The article does not say it directly, but if the "introduction is still three to four years away" this will put the cars squarely in the into Timeline of the C2 Focus .. the C-Max will be C2 by then and the Kuga will be assembled in Europe alongside the C2.. so it is not an impossible feat .. it will be possible here as well ..

 

This is later than I expected, but better than nothing .. Expect the Kuga to take Escape name in US as the 2 cars are identical in size. C-Max might keep the name - may not.

 

Igor

[NLPRacing]

Sounds cool to me! More choices at the dealer can't be a bad thing...

[NickF1011]

<Sigh> Yet another "4-5 years down the road" announcement.

[igor]

<Sigh> Yet another "4-5 years down the road" announcement.

3-4 years .. and it is not an announcement ..

 

 

there is a big difference between info being leaked from Ford and Ford announcing something .. Ford has not announced the RWD program or this ..

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

3-4 years .. and it is not an announcement ..

 

 

there is a big difference between info being leaked from Ford and Ford announcing something .. Ford has not announced the RWD program or this ..

 

Igor

 

Exactly. Once Ford actually ANNOUNCES it is when the 3-4 year clock usually starts ticking lately. I figure it'll take Ford another year or two just to officially decide what they plan on doing 3-4 years later. :rolleyes:

[igor]

Exactly. Once Ford actually ANNOUNCES it is when the 3-4 year clock usually starts ticking lately. I figure it'll take Ford another year or two just to officially decide what they plan on doing 3-4 years later. :rolleyes:

ok let me just make this simple for you ..

 

the new Focus will be out globally before the beginning of 2012 and we will get it alongside the rest of the world. We will have one plant for this platform, and the Kuga (Escape) and the C-Max will be built in the same plant .. so these vehicles will be here sometime between 2010 - 2012 ... 2011-2010 being the prime candidate.

 

there is no decision to be made anymore .. we are getting it ... they are just too cheap to retool a plant for them before the key product of the lineup - the Focus - is out.

 

Igor

Edited July 20, 2007 by igor

[igor]

....

Edited July 20, 2007 by igor

[NickF1011]

ok let me just make this simple for you ..

 

the new Focus will be out globally before the beginning of 2012 and we will get it alongside the rest of the world.

 

Only probably a year later....just like the Fiesta.

[igor]

Only probably a year later....just like the Fiesta.

Fiesta is a different case ... quite different .. the US model was a very late addition .. the Focus was entered well along the development .. its production is being planned to start exactly along Europe

 

BTW: I never heard you complain that Toyota released Corolla in most markets already while we are still about 12 months away, or that the MkV Golf has been out for 4 years before it came to US etc .. a lot of automakers to gradual rollout across the globe to ensure quality and avoid supplier shock .. you know 0 -100k pieces a day in a week .. and finally to catch any possible early glitches while the car is only in a sinlge market.. not in 3, 5 or 10 .. (key reason why the Japaneses bands have such a good reliability in US - we get their models a year after Japan, so we are essentially getting 2nd model year cars).

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

BTW: I never heard you complain that Toyota released Corolla in most markets already while we are still about 12 months away, or that the MkV Golf has been out for 4 years before it came to US etc .. a lot of automakers to gradual rollout across the globe to ensure quality and avoid supplier shock .. you know 0 -100k pieces a day in a week .. and finally to catch any possible early glitches while the car is only in a sinlge market.. not in 3, 5 or 10 .. (key reason why the Japaneses bands have such a good reliability in US - we get their models a year after Japan, so we are essentially getting 2nd model year cars).

 

Igor

 

But the Japanese don't have gaping holes in their lineups like uber-outdated compact cars and pickups or the complete lack of B-cars, so it's not quite as urgent for them to get the new products here. Ford is in a serious need of NEW product and continuously delaying them by a year compared to their overseas variants certainly doesn't help.

[silvrsvt]

Ford is in a serious need of NEW product and continuously delaying them by a year compared to their overseas variants certainly doesn't help.

 

Well I agree with you, but also its not like they can be pulled ahead all that much faster then they are now....

[silvrsvt]

This is later than I expected, but better than nothing .. Expect the Kuga to take Escape name in US as the 2 cars are identical in size. C-Max might keep the name - may not.

 

Igor

 

I dunno how the Kuga would fly over here in its current form, I like it, but I also don't think of a Cute-Ute like the Escape is..It needs to be more truck like if they want it to be a true replacement as the Escape in the Eyes of the American consumer, maybe they could spilt the two, sorta like the Escape and the Edge, with the Escape being trucky and cheaper and the Kuga as the highline model? Would the C-Max be similar (in size and function) as the HHR and PT Cruiser? I've had a HHR as a rental the past couple days and as much as I hate GM products, its pretty decent.

[RichardJensen]

like uber-outdated compact cars

While it is NEVER mentioned that very little is changed on the Corolla, the Focus underpinnings are NEWER than the Corolla's, and look how well it sells.

[igor]

I dunno how the Kuga would fly over here in its current form, I like it, but I also don't think of a Cute-Ute like the Escape is..It needs to be more truck like if they want it to be a true replacement as the Escape in the Eyes of the American consumer, maybe they could spilt the two, sorta like the Escape and the Edge, with the Escape being trucky and cheaper and the Kuga as the highline model? Would the C-Max be similar (in size and function) as the HHR and PT Cruiser? I've had a HHR as a rental the past couple days and as much as I hate GM products, its pretty decent.

 

Oh OK one more point .. I have had some EU conversations ... the EU Fiesta will be revealed in Geneva in 2008 (production model) and go on sale in the fall of 2008. Our Fiesta will begin production in Brazil in the Spring of 2009 ... that is about 6 months delay - not 1 year.

 

As I already posted once:

EU Concept Reveal: Frankfurt - September 07

US Concept Reveal: Detroit - January 08

EU Production Reveal: Geneva - March 08

EU Production Starts: fall 08

US Production Reveal: LA or Detroit - winter 08/09

US Production Starts: spring 09

 

PS: the EU Fusion/EcoSport (possibly named B-Max) will debut alongside the Fiesta, so that model should be on sale in US alongside Fiesta as well - spring 09.

 

Igor

Edited July 21, 2007 by igor

[Surgen]

But the Japanese don't have gaping holes in their lineups like uber-outdated compact cars and pickups or the complete lack of B-cars, so it's not quite as urgent for them to get the new products here. Ford is in a serious need of NEW product and continuously delaying them by a year compared to their overseas variants certainly doesn't help.

 

Yeah.. Do lack of Heavy Duty pickups, and RWD coupes (or anything 'sporty') at Toyota count? Does Honda have anything that can tow over 5,000 pounds? Every manufacturer has gaps.

[waymondospiff]

While it is NEVER mentioned that very little is changed on the Corolla, the Focus underpinnings are NEWER than the Corolla's, and look how well it sells.

Current Corolla chassis debuted in Fall 2000 as a 2001 launch in Japan and then migrated to the US for an early-launch 2003 model in spring 2002. The current Focus chassis debuted in Europe in 1998 before launching in fall 1999 as a 2000 model in the US.

 

As far as design goes, I'd rate the C170 as superior to the Corolla on account of the C170's independent rear suspension vs. Corolla's torsion beam setup. But, that doesn't change the fact that the Corolla is still newer. And in context of this discussion, an all-new top-to-bottom Corolla rolls out next spring - Ford won't roll out a new Focus for three or four years.

 

Scott

[ANTAUS]

How thorough was Corolla's (from top to bottom) redesign? I mean, supposedly the "totally redesigned" Camry still rides on a modified platform that dates to 1992, but realistically continues to be tweaked

[RichardJensen]

all-new top-to-bottom

A matter of semantics....

 

Likely very little will be changed in the underpinnings and engineering of the model.

 

As with past Toyota models, I anticipate that it will be longer and wider than the previous model

 

<AND>

 

A bigger C pillar to hide the additional bracing required because the overall vehicle has not been substantially re-engineered.

 

There is (not coincidentally) a link between the ever growing C pillar on the Camry and its corresponding increase in wheelbase

 

BEHOLD!

 

103" WB

 

105" WB

 

107" WB

 

109" WB

[RichardJensen]

1998 Corolla:

97" WB

 

2001 Corolla:

102"

 

Yep. Nothing like stretching out a platform, adding extra bracing, and calling it good. Worked for Detroit from '49 to '59.

 

That's your Toyota 'engineering': Substitute the struts at all four corners for stamped control arms up front and a hotchkiss rear end and you've got all the engineering that went into the '59 Cadillac.

 

Give me a Honda over that CRAP any day. There is a huge difference. Honda actually re-engineers their vehicles.

[CarShark]

Yeah.. Do lack of Heavy Duty pickups, and RWD coupes (or anything 'sporty') at Toyota count? Does Honda have anything that can tow over 5,000 pounds? Every manufacturer has gaps.

I would say that Toyota has more bases covered (and covered well) than the Detroit Three. I do worry that a lack of fun cars will lead to a continuous aging of their buyers, but I guess Scion does an adequate job of getting younger folks into the fold. The only thing they're missing are niches. They have fantastically selling mid-size and compact cars, of which the Detroit Three have...neither. I believe their subcompact car and compact/mid-size pick-ups are the best-selling in class, as well. Except for the Avalon (which is the centerpiece of nearly every "Toyota quality is slipping" dance pro-doms perform) and their b-o-f SUVs (which are falling like everyone's) I don't really see a big glaring gap on their part. I keep hearing rumors about an upcoming rear-drive V-8 coupe, but I don't believe them. Not when I saw an interview on Autoline Detroit with a Toyota marketing exec named Jim Farley where he basically said that Toyota was wholesaling Supras at the end of the production run. The rumors I've heard have said that the new Supra would compete against the Nissan GT-R in the exceedingly-rare-premium-price-with-Japanese-mass-market-badge niche. I don't think they'll do it because I haven't seen what platform it would share with other vehicles, and I think that Toyota would rather use their Lexus brand and hybrid system in halo cars, and this certainly would be one.

 

Honda really seems to be doing they're own thing. Is it good or bad? I'm not sure. The Accord, Civic and Fit sell well, but they don't have anywhere to build them. Acura, however, is an unmitigated disaster with the most useless flagship I've ever seen. A stepped-on Accord for fifty large? Don't make laugh! Not even the Super Ultra Mega Handling Long-Life Reassuring All-Wheel Drive System of Destiny can save it, though thankfully it will be used on less ridiculous cars in the future. The RDX also seems to be disappointing with it's turbo-four in place of the V-6 all its competitors. The TL and TSX are doing fine sales-wise, but remain the exceptions to the RWD rule in the luxury class. I don't know how much not being able to participate in the horsepower wars is hurting them, but hopefully SH-AWD in them will lead to more powerful versions.

[Biker16]

1998 Corolla:

97" WB

 

2001 Corolla:

102"

 

Yep. Nothing like stretching out a platform, adding extra bracing, and calling it good. Worked for Detroit from '49 to '59.

 

That's your Toyota 'engineering': Substitute the struts at all four corners for stamped control arms up front and a hotchkiss rear end and you've got all the engineering that went into the '59 Cadillac.

 

Give me a Honda over that CRAP any day. There is a huge difference. Honda actually re-engineers their vehicles.

 

hey richard what was changed on the C170 focus to the C1 focus?

 

structurally alot and a little the floorpan is very similar, the frontal structure is all new.

 

Now I can' t believe that the 1989 corolla is the 2008 corolla.

 

it is what we have been going towards

 

C170- > C1 -> EUCD -> C2 -> EUCD2 -> C3-> EUCD3 etc.

 

some where in there we will have the GRWD.

[NickF1011]

While it is NEVER mentioned that very little is changed on the Corolla, the Focus underpinnings are NEWER than the Corolla's, and look how well it sells.

 

It sells well because it's a Toyota. Ford needs to do things BETTER than Toyota if they want to sell like they do. Being equal isn't good enough in segments like compacts when you reputation for building small cars is crap. Yes, the Focus is a shade newer, but it's still old.

[igor]

hey richard what was changed on the C170 focus to the C1 focus?

 

structurally alot and a little the floorpan is very similar, the frontal structure is all new.

 

Now I can' t believe that the 1989 corolla is the 2008 corolla.

 

it is what we have been going towards

 

C170- > C1 -> EUCD -> C2 -> EUCD2 -> C3-> EUCD3 etc.

 

some where in there we will have the GRWD.

yeah .. the FWD Fords will all ride on a 2 platforms : C/CD (C1 / EUCD2) and B (B2xx). The the B is cheapest and simplest with torsion beam in the rear. The C is a very well built base version of a flexible FWD/AWD platform with full independent suspnesion. The CD is a more developpe,d more size-flexible version of the C for larger applications.

 

It seems all future unitbody RWD programs will rice on version of a single RWD platform ..

 

This practically leaved Ford with only THREE platforms to underpin their vast global array of models. that is quite an achievement,

 

Igor

[Biker16]

yeah .. the FWD Fords will all ride on a 2 platforms : C/CD (C1 / EUCD2) and B (B2xx). The the B is cheapest and simplest with torsion beam in the rear. The C is a very well built base version of a flexible FWD/AWD platform with full independent suspnesion. The CD is a more developpe,d more size-flexible version of the C for larger applications.

 

It seems all future unitbody RWD programs will rice on version of a single RWD platform ..

 

This practically leaved Ford with only THREE platforms to underpin their vast global array of models. that is quite an achievement,

 

Igor

 

I agree.

 

What has been happen ing is a constant evolution of the original arhctechture, refining it, making it better. not constant ground up redesigns every 6-12 years. Ford of europe is always asking what can be better about ofur class leading products no asking how we can beat toyota.

 

the RWD archtechture will take GPDS to a new level. because for the most part they can borrow from C/CD archtechtures. I can't wait By next january we should know the global plant alignments for the next 10 years, eliminating alot of uncertaintyand et our porple focused on the products we need.

[sonofford]

<Sigh> Yet another "4-5 years down the road" announcement.

 

Too bad Ford doesn't have four or five years of life left with its current rate of losses.