GOIN' DOWN

[Smartypants]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070805/ts_al...my_070805072737 Edited August 5, 2007 by Smartypants

[skeptic]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070805/ts_al...my_070805072737

Incentives or not Toyota made a 4 Billion dollar profit .Thats over 3.5 Billion more than Ford.A nice profit sharing check is waiting for Toyota employees.All we will get is the right to pay union dues and make major concessions this contract.

[Furious1Auto]

Incentives or not Toyota made a 4 Billion dollar profit .Thats over 3.5 Billion more than Ford.A nice profit sharing check is waiting for Toyota employees.All we will get is the right to pay union dues and make major concessions this contract.

If they even get profit sharing. Like most places if they see their handsomely compensating their employ then they'll cut back!

[zoomerjrt]

If they even get profit sharing. Like most places if they see their handsomely compensating their employ then they'll cut back!

I have a family member that works for Toyota and they average 40-50K just in profit sharing a year, plus he makes 24$ an hour. This is why they keep voting out the union. Maybe if the union stood for the hard worker, not the lazy medical person or the blond making there coffee they might not be lossing membership. But we all know that they only suport the lazy person!!!!!!!! I'm sure you'll all attack me, for post this but why not attack the union??? Why not ask them why there not using all this bad China crap for PR? A family made it on national news for going a whole year with out buying China made goods. The union should be all over this!!!!!

[Twincam Harley]

I have a family member that works for Toyota and they average 40-50K just in profit sharing a year, plus he makes 24$ an hour. This is why they keep voting out the union. Maybe if the union stood for the hard worker, not the lazy medical person or the blond making there coffee they might not be lossing membership. But we all know that they only suport the lazy person!!!!!!!! I'm sure you'll all attack me, for post this but why not attack the union??? Why not ask them why there not using all this bad China crap for PR? A family made it on national news for going a whole year with out buying China made goods. The union should be all over this!!!!!

 

Oh come on! They do not get $40,000-$50,000 in profit sharing a year! The highest I have ever read was $10,000. (More Toyota Kool-aid for the masses) `Hell, we got $8,000 one year on $6 billion in profit. How much would we get now on that kind of profit with the number of employees we currently have? You can bet the profit sharing formula will get re-configured this contract!

 

Toyota is not going to give that kind of money to AMERICAN workers. As for China, just don't buy their products.

[zoomerjrt]

Oh come on! They do not get $40,000-$50,000 in profit sharing a year! The highest I have ever read was $10,000. (More Toyota Kool-aid for the masses) `Hell, we got $8,000 one year on $6 billion in profit. How much would we get now on that kind of profit with the number of employees we currently have? You can bet the profit sharing formula will get re-configured this contract!

 

Toyota is not going to give that kind of money to AMERICAN workers. As for China, just don't buy their products.

Your right my family is lieing to me. Too funny

[whereswaldo]

You can bet the profit sharing formula will get re-configured this contract!

You can be that it will be zero. Replaced by Mullaly's bonuses. $500-1000 for us, millions for his kind.

[skeptic]

You can be that it will be zero. Replaced by Mullaly's bonuses. $500-1000 for us, millions for his kind.

How the company executives of the once Big Three cry that they are at a cost disadvantage with the transplants because of our wages and benefits.I have not once heard them mention that the executives of Japans auto companies make about a third of what our head Leeches get.Our execs get obscene salaries without even being succesful.Before I give up anymore lets see what Mullaly and gang sacrifice.We,ve already agreed to higher copays on our medical,given up our 3 percent raise which means in our current contract of 4 years we gained a 2 percent pay increase.Plus our COLA has once again been chipped away.Most plants have agreed to Co Operative operating agreements which outsource our jobs.Even if Mullaly gave up half of his 39 million he would not be hurting.As to the legacy costs for pensions and medical benefits that money should have been there right now through investments .The reason that it is not is that companies where allowed to withhold deposits or raid the money that was their to shore up the bottom line or pay dividends.Where was the UAW?

Edited August 6, 2007 by skeptic

[Emigh]

How the company executives of the once Big Three cry that they are at a cost disadvantage with the transplants because of our wages and benefits.I have not once heard them mention that the executives of Japans auto companies make about a third of what our head Leeches get.Our execs get obscene salaries without even being succesful.Before I give up anymore lets see what Mullaly and gang sacrifice.We,ve already agreed to higher copays on our medical,given up our 3 percent raise which means in our current contract of 4 years we gained a 2 percent pay increase.Plus our COLA has once again been chipped away.Most plants have agreed to Co Operative operating agreements which outsource our jobs.Even if Mullaly gave up half of his 39 million he would not be hurting.As to the legacy costs for pensions and medical benefits that money should have been there right now through investments .The reason that it is not is that companies where allowed to withhold deposits or raid the money that was their to shore up the bottom line or pay dividends.Where was the UAW?

I asked the plant manager at WAP about the raises for upper management, and he said they had to pay "to keep the competitive idea makers at Ford". Yeah! Right!

Edited August 6, 2007 by Emigh

[TIGER66]

I asked the plant manager at WAP about the raises for upper management, and he said they had to pay "to keep the competitive idea makers at Ford". Yeah! Right!

My wife works at Toyota in Georgetown, KY and I can tell you they don't get that big of a bonus. They do pay them very well and they do get a very big bonus but nothing close to 40-50 grand a year.

[Imawhosure]

Toyota and Honda are successfull because they have found a formula that works for them.

 

Ford and GM have NOT found a formula that is successfull, they just had a formula that worked in a non competitive vaccumn.

 

Lets see---------->the company has.........over paid executives, engineers who can't really engineer. (some, not all) A terrible advertising campaign compared to the offshore crooks. A family who runs this company who thought they were all brilliant because they came from the loins of Henry Ford, then discovered they were closer to dunces then geniuses. A system that has salary covering their rearends instead of managing. And the list goes on, and on, and all of you know it.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND-------------->We have an international union you can't even vote on. You have a union that protects deadbeats unilaterally. We have a union who can't unionize ANYONE ANYMORE, cause of its IDIOCY. We have a union that demands solidarity, but doesn't share your solid benefits, rather has its own along with extra pensions. (are you really surprised?) We have a union that is laughed at now because of its obvious corruption. (along with most other unions I might add)

 

So then, how the company hierarchy and international union officials can sit across a huge table from each other with a straight face claiming HOLIER THAN THOU status, is beyond any logic, or business sense lolololol!!!!!

 

As far as ANY OF US should be concerned, these two entitys have been failing ABYSMALLY for the last 7 to 10yrs. Isn't it just grand that regardless of who wins out in this negotiation, you the employees know that BOTH of them through recent past decisions, have screwed everything up they touched, could not handle prosperity, and were to dizzy to figure out that their lunch was being handed to them and respond accordingly.........and one of those two will win the decision on your future working mode.

 

Yeah, its all the workers fault! Just ask the union and the company. Never, ever, never, could it be the idiocy of of either of these two and their interaction with each other. Nope, never, ever, never!!!

[nemechek]

Toyota and Honda are successfull because they have found a formula that works for them.

 

Ford and GM have NOT found a formula that is successfull, they just had a formula that worked in a non competitive vaccumn.

 

Lets see---------->the company has.........over paid executives, engineers who can't really engineer. (some, not all) A terrible advertising campaign compared to the offshore crooks. A family who runs this company who thought they were all brilliant because they came from the loins of Henry Ford, then discovered they were closer to dunces then geniuses. A system that has salary covering their rearends instead of managing. And the list goes on, and on, and all of you know it.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND-------------->We have an international union you can't even vote on. You have a union that protects deadbeats unilaterally. We have a union who can't unionize ANYONE ANYMORE, cause of its IDIOCY. We have a union that demands solidarity, but doesn't share your solid benefits, rather has its own along with extra pensions. (are you really surprised?) We have a union that is laughed at now because of its obvious corruption. (along with most other unions I might add)

 

So then, how the company hierarchy and international union officials can sit across a huge table from each other with a straight face claiming HOLIER THAN THOU status, is beyond any logic, or business sense lolololol!!!!!

 

As far as ANY OF US should be concerned, these two entitys have been failing ABYSMALLY for the last 7 to 10yrs. Isn't it just grand that regardless of who wins out in this negotiation, you the employees know that BOTH of them through recent past decisions, have screwed everything up they touched, could not handle prosperity, and were to dizzy to figure out that their lunch was being handed to them and respond accordingly.........and one of those two will win the decision on your future working mode.

 

Yeah, its all the workers fault! Just ask the union and the company. Never, ever, never, could it be the idiocy of of either of these two and their interaction with each other. Nope, never, ever, never!!!

[nemechek]

This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time. You are absolutely correct in your comments on management and the union. Both of these knuckleheads have brought the BIG 3 down. The guy and gal who come to work every day are the ones who carry the company. The public perception of the BIG 3 and UAW would be better if management stopped crying about legacy costs and built vehicles that people wanted to buy and the UAW needs to stop protecting people who don't want to work.

[NoMoVisteon]

Toyota and Honda are successfull because they have found a formula that works for them.

 

Ford and GM have NOT found a formula that is successfull, they just had a formula that worked in a non competitive vaccumn.

 

Lets see---------->the company has.........over paid executives, engineers who can't really engineer. (some, not all) A terrible advertising campaign compared to the offshore crooks. A family who runs this company who thought they were all brilliant because they came from the loins of Henry Ford, then discovered they were closer to dunces then geniuses. A system that has salary covering their rearends instead of managing. And the list goes on, and on, and all of you know it.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND-------------->We have an international union you can't even vote on. You have a union that protects deadbeats unilaterally. We have a union who can't unionize ANYONE ANYMORE, cause of its IDIOCY. We have a union that demands solidarity, but doesn't share your solid benefits, rather has its own along with extra pensions. (are you really surprised?) We have a union that is laughed at now because of its obvious corruption. (along with most other unions I might add)

 

So then, how the company hierarchy and international union officials can sit across a huge table from each other with a straight face claiming HOLIER THAN THOU status, is beyond any logic, or business sense lolololol!!!!!

 

As far as ANY OF US should be concerned, these two entitys have been failing ABYSMALLY for the last 7 to 10yrs. Isn't it just grand that regardless of who wins out in this negotiation, you the employees know that BOTH of them through recent past decisions, have screwed everything up they touched, could not handle prosperity, and were to dizzy to figure out that their lunch was being handed to them and respond accordingly.........and one of those two will win the decision on your future working mode.

 

Yeah, its all the workers fault! Just ask the union and the company. Never, ever, never, could it be the idiocy of of either of these two and their interaction with each other. Nope, never, ever, never!!!

Have to put it this way, Imawhosure, you couldn't layed it out on the line any better than this about the whole situation. Sure, it has been brought up a time or two by various posts, including mine. Another way to put it is this old saying IT'S ABOUT HANDLING THE TRUTH. And a lot of employees, both salary AND Union Hourly--CANNOT Handle it. And the International is like a fort under seige. It is a sad situation, and that's putting it mildly The big unanswered question is: Is Ford Going to start putting out product lines that the vehicle buying public will want to come back to? And lastly, when is the UAW going to make it easier for Ford to get rid of lazy, unproductive workers? Those that come to work, do the right thing by keeping to quality standards, etc, etc are carrying all the deadbeat assholes who won't come to work, or won't work when they even bother to show up!!! I just hope that somehow that this up and coming contract will address the WHOLE picture!!

[macattack]

Toyota and Honda are successfull because they have found a formula that works for them.

 

Ford and GM have NOT found a formula that is successfull, they just had a formula that worked in a non competitive vaccumn.

 

Lets see---------->the company has.........over paid executives, engineers who can't really engineer. (some, not all) A terrible advertising campaign compared to the offshore crooks. A family who runs this company who thought they were all brilliant because they came from the loins of Henry Ford, then discovered they were closer to dunces then geniuses. A system that has salary covering their rearends instead of managing. And the list goes on, and on, and all of you know it.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND-------------->We have an international union you can't even vote on. You have a union that protects deadbeats unilaterally. We have a union who can't unionize ANYONE ANYMORE, cause of its IDIOCY. We have a union that demands solidarity, but doesn't share your solid benefits, rather has its own along with extra pensions. (are you really surprised?) We have a union that is laughed at now because of its obvious corruption. (along with most other unions I might add)

 

So then, how the company hierarchy and international union officials can sit across a huge table from each other with a straight face claiming HOLIER THAN THOU status, is beyond any logic, or business sense lolololol!!!!!

 

As far as ANY OF US should be concerned, these two entitys have been failing ABYSMALLY for the last 7 to 10yrs. Isn't it just grand that regardless of who wins out in this negotiation, you the employees know that BOTH of them through recent past decisions, have screwed everything up they touched, could not handle prosperity, and were to dizzy to figure out that their lunch was being handed to them and respond accordingly.........and one of those two will win the decision on your future working mode.

 

Yeah, its all the workers fault! Just ask the union and the company. Never, ever, never, could it be the idiocy of of either of these two and their interaction with each other. Nope, never, ever, never!!!

 

GREAT POST!!!

[Imawhosure]

Have to put it this way, Imawhosure, you couldn't layed it out on the line any better than this about the whole situation. Sure, it has been brought up a time or two by various posts, including mine. Another way to put it is this old saying IT'S ABOUT HANDLING THE TRUTH. And a lot of employees, both salary AND Union Hourly--CANNOT Handle it. And the International is like a fort under seige. It is a sad situation, and that's putting it mildly The big unanswered question is: Is Ford Going to start putting out product lines that the vehicle buying public will want to come back to? And lastly, when is the UAW going to make it easier for Ford to get rid of lazy, unproductive workers? Those that come to work, do the right thing by keeping to quality standards, etc, etc are carrying all the deadbeat assholes who won't come to work, or won't work when they even bother to show up!!! I just hope that somehow that this up and coming contract will address the WHOLE picture!!

 

NoMo,

 

For me personally, I have to laugh at the situation or I will cry a long river.

 

From Ford being the automaker to eclipse GM as the worlds largest seller of vehicles. From Ford hitting homeruns on every product they introduced. From Ford being the unionized automaker with the best repoire with its workforce. TO THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS!!!!!!!!

 

And then to have the audacity to not lose to GM, oh nooooooooooooooo, they are being handed that bologna sandwich by GODDAMN TOYOTY!!!!!

 

How many of YOU are embarrased to say you work for Ford..........not because you don't work your ass off and have a high sense of worth through your sweat, but because of the perception of failure by this company and the union?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

People remember how just 15yrs ago, everything from my first paragraph was in Fords sites..............and between their and union arrogance, all we have left is the shell today.

 

Yes, Ford is improving greatly today, but saving themselves is one question, what they threw away through stupidity, mismanagement, and union corruption is another. Is it any wonder that management that is not allowed to manage, and solid unionworkers who are not allowed to build, have little confidence in the leaders of Solidarity House, or the Glasshouse?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Regardless of which side (union/company) claims victory in these negotiations, they are both LOSERS. Losers because these negotiations would not be this important, if EACH OF THEM woulda paid attention to what they are PAID for paying attention to!

 

The workers(retirees) will lose, and DAMN IF THEY AREN'T the ones who have done their jobs out of the 3 entitys. Of course, they aren't in jobs that pay 6 or 7 figures, nor are they in jobs where the constituency can vote them out as in any republic or democracy.

 

As I started out this post---------->I have to laugh, or I will cry a river!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Furious1Auto]

NoMo,

 

For me personally, I have to laugh at the situation or I will cry a long river.

 

From Ford being the automaker to eclipse GM as the worlds largest seller of vehicles. From Ford hitting homeruns on every product they introduced. From Ford being the unionized automaker with the best repoire with its workforce. TO THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS!!!!!!!!

 

And then to have the audacity to not lose to GM, oh nooooooooooooooo, they are being handed that bologna sandwich by GODDAMN TOYOTY!!!!!

 

How many of YOU are embarrased to say you work for Ford..........not because you don't work your ass off and have a high sense of worth through your sweat, but because of the perception of failure by this company and the union?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

People remember how just 15yrs ago, everything from my first paragraph was in Fords sites..............and between their and union arrogance, all we have left is the shell today.

 

Yes, Ford is improving greatly today, but saving themselves is one question, what they threw away through stupidity, mismanagement, and union corruption is another. Is it any wonder that management that is not allowed to manage, and solid unionworkers who are not allowed to build, have little confidence in the leaders of Solidarity House, or the Glasshouse?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Regardless of which side (union/company) claims victory in these negotiations, they are both LOSERS. Losers because these negotiations would not be this important, if EACH OF THEM woulda paid attention to what they are PAID for paying attention to!

 

The workers(retirees) will lose, and DAMN IF THEY AREN'T the ones who have done their jobs out of the 3 entitys. Of course, they aren't in jobs that pay 6 or 7 figures, nor are they in jobs where the constituency can vote them out as in any republic or democracy.

 

As I started out this post---------->I have to laugh, or I will cry a river!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your on a roll!

[macattack]

NoMo,

 

For me personally, I have to laugh at the situation or I will cry a long river.

 

From Ford being the automaker to eclipse GM as the worlds largest seller of vehicles. From Ford hitting homeruns on every product they introduced. From Ford being the unionized automaker with the best repoire with its workforce. TO THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS!!!!!!!!

 

And then to have the audacity to not lose to GM, oh nooooooooooooooo, they are being handed that bologna sandwich by GODDAMN TOYOTY!!!!!

 

How many of YOU are embarrased to say you work for Ford..........not because you don't work your ass off and have a high sense of worth through your sweat, but because of the perception of failure by this company and the union?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

People remember how just 15yrs ago, everything from my first paragraph was in Fords sites..............and between their and union arrogance, all we have left is the shell today.

 

Yes, Ford is improving greatly today, but saving themselves is one question, what they threw away through stupidity, mismanagement, and union corruption is another. Is it any wonder that management that is not allowed to manage, and solid unionworkers who are not allowed to build, have little confidence in the leaders of Solidarity House, or the Glasshouse?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Regardless of which side (union/company) claims victory in these negotiations, they are both LOSERS. Losers because these negotiations would not be this important, if EACH OF THEM woulda paid attention to what they are PAID for paying attention to!

 

The workers(retirees) will lose, and DAMN IF THEY AREN'T the ones who have done their jobs out of the 3 entitys. Of course, they aren't in jobs that pay 6 or 7 figures, nor are they in jobs where the constituency can vote them out as in any republic or democracy.

 

As I started out this post---------->I have to laugh, or I will cry a river!!!!!!!!!!!!

ON A ROLL INDEED!!!

[feegsit]

This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time. You are absolutely correct in your comments on management and the union. Both of these knuckleheads have brought the BIG 3 down. The guy and gal who come to work every day are the ones who carry the company. The public perception of the BIG 3 and UAW would be better if management stopped crying about legacy costs and built vehicles that people wanted to buy and the UAW needs to stop protecting people who don't want to work.

.... The UAW needs to stop protecting people who don't want to work. INCLUDING THEMSELVES!!

[Furious1Auto]

.... The UAW needs to stop protecting people who don't want to work. INCLUDING THEMSELVES!!

They can't do that or Thanksgiving dinner will be a riot after their family members get fired!

[J-150]

Your right my family is lieing to me. Too funny

 

 

 

uh, they work for Toyota and you are UAW and you think they would be 100% honest on whom has the better deal?

[TRUCK]

NoMo,

 

For me personally, I have to laugh at the situation or I will cry a long river.

 

From Ford being the automaker to eclipse GM as the worlds largest seller of vehicles. From Ford hitting homeruns on every product they introduced. From Ford being the unionized automaker with the best repoire with its workforce. TO THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS!!!!!!!!

 

And then to have the audacity to not lose to GM, oh nooooooooooooooo, they are being handed that bologna sandwich by GODDAMN TOYOTY!!!!!

 

How many of YOU are embarrased to say you work for Ford..........not because you don't work your ass off and have a high sense of worth through your sweat, but because of the perception of failure by this company and the union?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

People remember how just 15yrs ago, everything from my first paragraph was in Fords sites..............and between their and union arrogance, all we have left is the shell today.

 

Yes, Ford is improving greatly today, but saving themselves is one question, what they threw away through stupidity, mismanagement, and union corruption is another. Is it any wonder that management that is not allowed to manage, and solid unionworkers who are not allowed to build, have little confidence in the leaders of Solidarity House, or the Glasshouse?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Regardless of which side (union/company) claims victory in these negotiations, they are both LOSERS. Losers because these negotiations would not be this important, if EACH OF THEM woulda paid attention to what they are PAID for paying attention to!

 

The workers(retirees) will lose, and DAMN IF THEY AREN'T the ones who have done their jobs out of the 3 entitys. Of course, they aren't in jobs that pay 6 or 7 figures, nor are they in jobs where the constituency can vote them out as in any republic or democracy.

 

As I started out this post---------->I have to laugh, or I will cry a river!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Too bad you can't be at the UAW/Ford contracts negotiations to read this. I think the hourly employees that show up everyday and do their jobs right should keep their benefits and get a raise while union officials and mangement make consessions. Then fire the deadbeats and walking wounded with fake restriction that are really just sorry as hell. That should put the company back in good shape if they build cars people want that are designed to last and back it up with a warrenty that lets people know we stand behind our products.

[sun3]

Too bad you can't be at the UAW/Ford contracts negotiations to read this. I think the hourly employees that show up everyday and do their jobs right should keep their benefits and get a raise while union officials and mangement make consessions. Then fire the deadbeats and walking wounded with fake restriction that are really just sorry as hell. That should put the company back in good shape if they build cars people want that are designed to last and back it up with a warrenty that lets people know we stand behind our products.

TOUCHE!!!! Couldn't have been said any better!!!

[Furious1Auto]

TOUCHE!!!! Couldn't have been said any better!!!

I'll support that, all in favor?