Police using new (08) Fords as undercover units

[rmc523]

It is what it is, it has been steady for decades! I would rather see the E-series lose business to another Ford product, than to another competitor!

 

I agree w/ you about that. I think for the most part though, there will always be a market for a large work van. Sure, some will 'downgrade' to a Transit for fuel economy purposes, but people like plumbers, sprinkler people, etc. need the room to haul stuff around, so they'll keep buying them. A few updates to the aged Econoline wouldn't hurt either (supposedly coming in 2010?).

[suv_guy_19]

I agree w/ you about that. I think for the most part though, there will always be a market for a large work van. Sure, some will 'downgrade' to a Transit for fuel economy purposes, but people like plumbers, sprinkler people, etc. need the room to haul stuff around, so they'll keep buying them. A few updates to the aged Econoline wouldn't hurt either (supposedly coming in 2010?).

 

See the thing about the Econoline is, you can't change to much because of all the upfitter equip. It did get substantial updates this year, though the interior didn't get much, and the new seats still don't have headrests for anyone behind the driver/passenger.

[Edstock]

Well, I see more nad more Sprinters on the road. Should the Econoline have a raised-roof option?

[rmc523]

See the thing about the Econoline is, you can't change to much because of all the upfitter equip. It did get substantial updates this year, though the interior didn't get much, and the new seats still don't have headrests for anyone behind the driver/passenger.

 

I understand that not much can be changed, but it could be given a newer Super Duty inspired interior to go along w/ it's Super Duty grille, not that Econoline customers really care about looks.

 

That said, what type of updates could we expect w/ a 2010 redo?

[suv_guy_19]

I understand that not much can be changed, but it could be given a newer Super Duty inspired interior to go along w/ it's Super Duty grille, not that Econoline customers really care about looks.

 

That said, what type of updates could we expect w/ a 2010 redo?

 

 

I don't know. I think the reason the interior was not changed was because of the problems faced by people specially outfitting their work vans. The stuff they have fits that interior. It makes it easier for Ford customers. That said, they could have given the passenger van a better interior.

[rmc523]

I don't know. I think the reason the interior was not changed was because of the problems faced by people specially outfitting their work vans. The stuff they have fits that interior. It makes it easier for Ford customers. That said, they could have given the passenger van a better interior.

 

 

I guess, as you said, the Econoline has been essentially unchanged for however many years now, much like the Crown Vic, everybody that buys them knows that there's plenty of parts for them to be able to configure the Econolines however they want. Changing the Econoline would mean the costly development of new parts for these companies that produce those parts.

 

I hope that made sense.

[Furious1Auto]

I agree w/ you about that. I think for the most part though, there will always be a market for a large work van. Sure, some will 'downgrade' to a Transit for fuel economy purposes, but people like plumbers, sprinkler people, etc. need the room to haul stuff around, so they'll keep buying them. A few updates to the aged Econoline wouldn't hurt either (supposedly coming in 2010?).

The transit is bigger than a E-Series van, you can stand up in it. It is better compared to a Sprinter!

[Furious1Auto]

I guess, as you said, the Econoline has been essentially unchanged for however many years now, much like the Crown Vic, everybody that buys them knows that there's plenty of parts for them to be able to configure the Econolines however they want. Changing the Econoline would mean the costly development of new parts for these companies that produce those parts.

 

I hope that made sense.

There have been many changes to it, but all where chassis upgrades with the exception of the face lift! The new heavier suspension has drastically improved our payload! To include oversized brakes from the factory!

[rmc523]

The transit is bigger than a E-Series van, you can stand up in it. It is better compared to a Sprinter!

 

Sorry, I was thinking of the Transit Connect, the smaller one. I didn't realize the Transit was that large, though.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Ford replacing the panther! A once in a generation experience. Similar to, but slightly more frequent than, Halley's Comet.

 

Stay tuned for other once-in a generation moves, such as the E-Series (1961, 1975, 1991, ???) and the Ranger (1984, 1994, ???).

 

Ford fullsize platforms: 1966, 1979, 1991, 2003...

 

Actually, I'm just guessing on the 1966-1979 thing.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it was '60-'64, '65-'68, '69-'72, '73-'78

[Hemiman]

Yep, eventaully, Mopar will undercut the old Vic. And the whole idea of "police only want BOF" is out the window too, with more Cop LX cars.

 

 

I was talking with a NYS Trooper who attends my church. They use a lot of Tahoes mix in with their Vics. When asked about the Charger. He said "we had one last week, it only took us one day to break it".

Edited September 17, 2007 by Hemiman

[Mark B. Morrow]

I was talking with a NYS Trooper who attends my church. They use a lot of Tahoes mix in with their Vics. When asked about the Charger. He said "we had one last week, it only took us one day to break it".

 

 

I wonder how that Lifetime Warranty is going to work out? Even "civilians" can be pretty tough on cars.

[RichardJensen]

Doubt fleet buyers get that warranty.

 

Love the 'took one day to break it' remark.

[RichardJensen]

I'm pretty sure it was '60-'64, '65-'68, '69-'72, '73-'78

Yeah, but how much changed under the sheetmetal? They were still using leaf springs up to '78, weren't they?

[Edstock]

If you're referring to the Crown Vic, it acquired rear coil suspension in 1965. The early 70's LTD II had also rear coils, with a suspension design called STA-BUL.

[Traveler]

The Tahoe has begun to emerge apparently as a contender against the Dodge Charger and Crown Victoria. According to the Michigan State Police, who conducts rigorous testing on police pursuit vehicles each year, the newer Tahoes pack more punch than ever.

 

The 5.3 liter Vortec now produces 320 horsepower and is stated in their report to be capable of swifter acceleration than the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor and apparently the V6 Impala and Charger. Furthermore, the Tahoe surprisingly outhandled the Crown Victoria in the latest testing. This also means that it is formidable and capable of besting a sedan like the 3.5 liter V6 Charger. The most incredible finding comes from the brake testing, in which the Tahoe outperformed even the Hemi Charger in braking capacity.

 

Of course, the achilles' heel of the Tahoe is fuel economy, but is said not to be that far behind the Crown Vic or Hemi Charger. Looking at the positive attributes of the Tahoe, its considerably larger and arguably more comfortable for a long shift performing traffic duty and can carry more cargo and offer a greater tow rate as well.

 

Many of us on here have theorized that the Charger was going to be the death of the Crown Victoria in the police market, however it looks like that Chevy could reclaim its title if more departments see the advantages of the Tahoe's size and its improved performance and fuel economy. The Tahoe could very well be the Ford Interceptor's executioner. Who would have thought that??

[suv_guy_19]

The Tahoe has begun to emerge apparently as a contender against the Dodge Charger and Crown Victoria. According to the Michigan State Police, who conducts rigorous testing on police pursuit vehicles each year, the newer Tahoes pack more punch than ever.

 

The 5.3 liter Vortec now produces 320 horsepower and is stated in their report to be capable of swifter acceleration than the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor and apparently the V6 Impala and Charger. Furthermore, the Tahoe surprisingly outhandled the Crown Victoria in the latest testing. This also means that it is formidable and capable of besting a sedan like the 3.5 liter V6 Charger. The most incredible finding comes from the brake testing, in which the Tahoe outperformed even the Hemi Charger in braking capacity.

 

Of course, the achilles' heel of the Tahoe is fuel economy, but is said not to be that far behind the Crown Vic or Hemi Charger. Looking at the positive attributes of the Tahoe, its considerably larger and arguably more comfortable for a long shift performing traffic duty and can carry more cargo and offer a greater tow rate as well.

 

Many of us on here have theorized that the Charger was going to be the death of the Crown Victoria in the police market, however it looks like that Chevy could reclaim its title if more departments see the advantages of the Tahoe's size and its improved performance and fuel economy. The Tahoe could very well be the Ford Interceptor's executioner. Who would have thought that??

 

 

I would say that the tahoe's biggest problem is not FE, but price. It costs a great dea ore than the other interception cars.

[silvrsvt]

Furthermore, the Tahoe surprisingly outhandled the Crown Victoria in the latest testing. This also means that it is formidable and capable of besting a sedan like the 3.5 liter V6 Charger.

 

 

i find it hard to believe that large SUV can handle as well as a sedan, with the key point being that since it has a higher CG then either the CV or Charger its going to more likely to flip in an emergency situation then those two will ever be. I'm sure they can get it to handle 'well" but they can't defeat psychics with it either.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I can tell you that the gov't agencies have been getting the Tahoes in large numbers since the last redesign. All of the agents that have driven them have found them miles better than their previous rides (either earlier generation tahoes or exps, or even CVPIs). With the continual deemphasis of highspeed chases and the upgrades that have been given to the 5.3L over the last few years (DOD, VCT, flex fuel) it really is a worthy package. Couple this with more room in the second row afte the cage has been installed, and more room in the cargo area (since most Law Enfrocement tahoes come with no third row seat) than in the trunk of a CVPI, and, with the added benifit of having the gas tank centrally located (instead of being behind the rear axle) and also having 4WD as an option, the tahoe realy is a flexible and useful vehicle to many fleets.

 

Yes, it is a bit more expensive than a CVPI, as well as the v6 charger and impala. But, you also get more vehicle. Most come with a tow package, so its not required that the fleet hold specialized tow vehicles for their smaller boats, investigation site light arrays/generators, utility trailers, etc. ITs not required for them to carry special vehicles to handle the rural/off road areas. And, they have higher street flooding tolerances as well. All that speaks to greater utility.

 

So, if Ford is really interested in keeping the fleet business for the Law Enforcement community, they need to come up with a replacement for the CVPI that has the following attributes:

It must be more fuel efficient, to the tune of at least 2-3 mpg better in the city and highway at the very least.

It must have more room in the back seat for larger perps to be held behind the cage.

It must have a larger trunk to handle the ever increasing amount of gear that cops have to carry.

It must be impervious to rear impacts from Semis traveling at extra legal speeds with a drunk/asleep driver at the helm.

It must be capable of fording at least two feet of water.

It must be capable of traveling at up to 175 mph safely.

It must be capable of stopping from 70 mph in under 100 feet.

It must be able to pull a more than 1 G on the skid pad without loosing control.

It must have every air bag ever imagined... and be able to disable them all.

It must have every electronic driving nanny ever thought of... and be able to disable them all.

It must be able to generate enough electricity for a small town without using a drop of gas.

It must be able to be driven over every pot hole and curb in every city at 60 mph without being damaged.

It must be completely parts interchangeable with every CVPI that was ever put into service.

 

You know, little things like that... oh, and one more thing...

 

It has to be cheaper than every other vehicle out there that is marketed to Law Enforcement agencies and...

Can't be even remotely similar to any retail vehicle that they have for the possibility that it might cause that vehicle's resale to plummet.

Yet, must share enough parts with other vehicles to be efficient to build and sell in less than 100K a year numbers in various configurations at rock bottom prices.

[NickF1011]

All of the agents that have driven them have found them miles better than their previous rides (either earlier generation tahoes or exps, or even CVPIs).

 

But I thought Panthers all got 30 mpg??

[Traveler]

Well, one thing about these new Tahoes...The State of NC has purchased a huge fleet this year. I mean I passed by the holdling lot for the NCSHP and there was a sea of Tahoes!! The tip-off in traffic however is the very unusual ride height. A stock Tahoe does not ride this low, plus the wheels I've seen on most are blacked out and they must have the smallest wheel possible.

 

Of course, another great thing about the GM choosings is that since GM started using DRLs (daytime driving lights), the state doesn't shut them off. You can easily pick out a lowered SUV with dim headlights from some distance away.

 

I agree about the handling. I wouldn't think so either, but I did read that not only did it handle but it can brake, as well.

 

Now what is so funny about this situation (perhaps I mentioned it before) is that just a few months ago it was stated in the news media that while the state has put all government agencies on a strict gas budget, the Highway Patrol is actually grossly overbudgeted for the year in gasoline expenses. Yet...they have recently acquired the biggest gas hog available to law enforcement. I could understand the usage of these SUVs in the mountain region or on the coast in AWD setup...but what does the state need with overpriced, full-size, gas-guzzling SUVs for?? They have available to them two V8 RWD sedans that offer plenty of room, plenty of power, good handling, better economy and a lower price per unit...but they'd rather buy 100+ Tahoes.

[rmc523]

Well, one thing about these new Tahoes...The State of NC has purchased a huge fleet this year. I mean I passed by the holdling lot for the NCSHP and there was a sea of Tahoes!! The tip-off in traffic however is the very unusual ride height. A stock Tahoe does not ride this low, plus the wheels I've seen on most are blacked out and they must have the smallest wheel possible.

 

Of course, another great thing about the GM choosings is that since GM started using DRLs (daytime driving lights), the state doesn't shut them off. You can easily pick out a lowered SUV with dim headlights from some distance away.

 

I agree about the handling. I wouldn't think so either, but I did read that not only did it handle but it can brake, as well.

 

Now what is so funny about this situation (perhaps I mentioned it before) is that just a few months ago it was stated in the news media that while the state has put all government agencies on a strict gas budget, the Highway Patrol is actually grossly overbudgeted for the year in gasoline expenses. Yet...they have recently acquired the biggest gas hog available to law enforcement. I could understand the usage of these SUVs in the mountain region or on the coast in AWD setup...but what does the state need with overpriced, full-size, gas-guzzling SUVs for?? They have available to them two V8 RWD sedans that offer plenty of room, plenty of power, good handling, better economy and a lower price per unit...but they'd rather buy 100+ Tahoes.

 

Theres a holding lot for the Florida Highway Patrol not too far from me. There are hundreds of new (I assume, it's hard to tell, since it's next to the highway) Crown Vics both marked and unmarked just sitting there. They dont ever seem to move. I'm sure they do, but still. Thats a lot of cars to just park there.

[old_fairmont_wagon]

According to the person that does the gas budgeting for the sites I work at, the Tahoe's aren't that much harder on gas than the CVPIs were. The excess expense is around 10% or so. But, you have to remember the duty cycle. A lot of these vehicles spend much of their life idling. That reduces the gas mileage differences from actually moving the vehicles. The 5.3L and 4.6L SOHC are very close to each other on idle fuel usage. The rest of it for many of the units is city mileage. The CVPI doesn't drastically outclass the Tahoe in the rear world there either. On the highway, there's where the aerodynamic differences come in. The CVPI should be able to score about 20% better than the tahoe in most circumstances there.

[Traveler]

I wonder what the top speed is for a CVPI (ungoverned, no light bar) vs. a Police Tahoe with no light bar?

[suv_guy_19]

I wonder what the top speed is for a CVPI (ungoverned, no light bar) vs. a Police Tahoe with no light bar?

 

CVPI w/ 3.55 - 119 mph

CVPI w/ 3.27 - 130 mph

Tahoe PPV - 136 - 137 mph

 

Source: Michigan State Police Test.