range Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 LINK interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaZor Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I really hope that Ford is working on their version/competitor to the Volt. Mr. Lutz says he would like to produce up to 100k copies of the Chevrolet Volt in its first year of production and he also said that the Chevy Volt batteries were now in GM's hands (from LG Chem) and expect to receive more experimental batteries from A123Systems in December. TheFreep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I really hope that Ford is working on their version/competitor to the Volt. Mr. Lutz says he would like to produce up to 100k copies of the Chevrolet Volt in its first year of production and he also said that the Chevy Volt batteries were now in GM's hands (from LG Chem) and expect to receive more experimental batteries from A123Systems in December. TheFreep How much is the Volt expected to go for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johns Goat Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Jay Leno is a tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockFX Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I really hope that Ford is working on their version/competitor to the Volt. Mr. Lutz says he would like to produce up to 100k copies of the Chevrolet Volt in its first year of production and he also said that the Chevy Volt batteries were now in GM's hands (from LG Chem) and expect to receive more experimental batteries from A123Systems in December. TheFreep Lutz is full of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Plug in Hybrids are the only ones tht make any sense... The problem is that it takes much more energy and polution to build a hybrid than it does to build a normal car. I have seen several studies that say you would have to drive the hybrid over 200,000 miles just to break even in total energy/Pollution savings... Heck, to save any real money on a hybrid purchase you typically have to drive 60-80K miles just to break even on the higher initial cost... Now a car that can average over 100mpg might just have a chance..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfs Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Assuming the Hybrid is $3,500 more than a similar Escape (V6) and you get a $3,000 tax avoidance (25% tax bracket =$750 savings), a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty (worth $500-800????), fuel economy averaging 30 MPG instead of 20 and gas at $3.00 a gallon for 10,000 miles per year yields annual fuel savings of $500. I see payback within 4-5 years plus bragging rights. At the end of 8 years you are way ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfalkSVO Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 dfs - I'm pretty sure it's a tax CREDIT, not deduction, so you'd actually save the full $3000 in taxes. Unless of course, you get hit by the AMT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Now a car that can average over 100mpg might just have a chance..... It's only 100 miles per gallon of gasoline that you put into the car; that doesn't take into account the energy equivalent of what you get out of the plug. It'll be interesting to see how the EPA tests and these. Gasoline-carbon equivalent based on the average electricity production methods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 It's only 100 miles per gallon of gasoline that you put into the car; that doesn't take into account the energy equivalent of what you get out of the plug. It'll be interesting to see how the EPA tests and these. Gasoline-carbon equivalent based on the average electricity production methods? Actually, the plug in hybrids do not get as GOOD MPG when running in full Hybrid mode due to the weight of the extra batteries. If a full time hybrid gets say 50mph a plug in operating in full hybrid mode will get less than 50mpg. The only thing that makes the Plug in get 100+mpg is the time it is driven ( usually less than 40 miles ) when it is operating in electric mode only. Oh the other hand if you live less than 20 miles from your work and or you could recharge at work, you can see 200+ MPG on average ( assuming a few trips outside the electric only range ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Most of the plug in hybrids are supposed to have about 40-50 miles of range. If you lived 20 miles or less from work, and assuming that you traveled in traffic the entire way (keeping your speed below the point where the gas engine must start) you could conceivably go through an entire work day without using any gas at all. Given that its a hybrid, it would still have the ability to travel further if needed, costing you only gas. What would hurt is recharging it. It would likely take 8-10 hours for a full charge, and, would be drawing a pretty hefty amount of juice the entire time. Repeat that for 22 days a month or so (avg # of working days a month) and that's, what, 220 hours of pulling 10 amps of 220 volt juice? That's about 484KWh. How much is your electricity per KWh? In 2006, the average was about 9.5 c per kwh. That's about $46 a month for the electricity, assuming my charging times and amp draw are ballpark. I may be off by a factor of 2 or so. It can't draw much more than that as most homes will have to have special upgrades to their breaker panels and wiring put in to keep up with the power requirements. $46 a month will buy you 15 gallons of gas a month at $3.00. For a similar cost, assuming that you lived 20 miles from work, and had a 40 mile round trip. You would travel 40X22=880 miles per month. To break even with a gas vehicle, you would need to have a car that managed 880/15=58.7 mpg in commuter traffic. You are also hoping that gas prices don't continue to rise, or, at least, gas prices don't outstrip the rising cost of electricity. That's assuming my earlier figures were remotely correct. If it takes twice as much juice to recharge a plug-in hybrid, then, you'd only need to get about 30mpg, which I got in my Corolla. If it takes half as much, then you'd need to get 120 mpg, which is freaking impossible, even for a vespa. The one monkey wrench to this is, if you have the money to invest in a solar recharging station for your plug in, then, its a one time expense, plus maintenance. The solar panels recharge batteries during the day, you plug in at night and have the batteries in the station recharge the car and repeat each day. You'd only have to worry about multiple cloudy days in a row (I'm assuming that there's some extra capacity in the system to account for one cloudy day). But, you would hardly care about what happens to fuel prices for the next 10 years or 100K miles. This is the plan that I like the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Jay Leno is a tool. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrodcod Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 If it's a "plug in" it's not a hybrid. Having a gasoline engine and an electric motor is what makes it a hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 If it's a "plug in" it's not a hybrid. Having a gasoline engine and an electric motor is what makes it a hybrid. Its a plug in hybrid. You plug it in, charge it, and then it doesn't need to use the gas engine for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local1111 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 What would hurt is recharging it. In 2006, the average was about 9.5 c per kwh. The one monkey wrench to this is, Your monkey wrench is - most people will be charging during the evening/night time when everyone's rates are the lowest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas1022 Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Your monkey wrench is - most people will be charging during the evening/night time when everyone's rates are the lowest. Everyone wants to be air conditioned. Electric cars, and hybids need to run a combustion engine to run the a/c compressor. So forget about your savings with the electrics. It isn't going to happen except in cool climates, and if your wife is a greenie and you like your sweetie sweatie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Local1111 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Everyone wants to be air conditioned. Electric cars, and hybids need to run a combustion engine to run the a/c compressor. Ask Toyota how they run their A/C off of electrics then. sweatie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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