BORG Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) And maybe if they would've marketed the *(*$&@# thing............ A car needs to sell itself IMO. It doesn't take much marketing to sell the Edge when customers seeing it driving on the road. If a Taurus drives by you, it's not something you immediately want. Edited November 15, 2007 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 A car needs to sell itself IMO. It doesn't take much marketing to sell the Edge when customers seeing it driving on the road. If a Taurus drives by you, it's not something you immediately want. No, and hopefully with the update in a couple years, it can become that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) A car needs to sell itself IMO. Spoken like a true naif. Nothing sells itself. Not for any length of time. What would say if Ford pulled all ads for the Edge because the car was 'selling itself'? The Five Hundred, being a brand new model name in a segment Ford had basically abandoned and which was mature and full of competent entries, needed marketing support. It got none after a first years where sales met expectations. Edited November 15, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) Spoken like a true naif. Nothing sells itself. Not for any length of time. What would say if Ford pulled all ads for the Edge because the car was 'selling itself'? The Five Hundred, being a brand new model name in a segment Ford had basically abandoned and which was mature and full of competent entries, needed marketing support. It got none after a first years where sales met expectations. I don't mean to sound naive, but I think a substantial problem with the 500 was really the appeal factor which was nearly non-existent. It's beauty was not in the skin. I've ALWAYS said on this forum since the 500 came out, you need to persuade people to buy the car and it's SOO much harder to do it when the car looks like the 500 and is powered by a garbage disposer . The Taurus is much MUCH better, but it's still not enough. The 500 always looked great on paper, but was never great on the eyes...or ears...or any other sensory organ unless your wallet was connected to your nervous system. Edited November 15, 2007 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 To counter your negativity: With marketing, the Five Hundred sold to expectations the first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) To counter your negativity: With marketing, the Five Hundred sold to expectations the first year. You will not persuade me from declaring the 500 so spectacular a failure that it nearly bankrupted FoMoCo and brought about the harbinger of Detroit. In all honesty, besides being unfairly targeted as an example of a clueless Ford, the 500 was an example of everything right about Ford's ongoing strategy to establish a sustainable future and satisfied costumers. No more marketshare at all costs, no more subsidizing factories to keep them moving, no more fleet dumping, no more success judged by sales alone. Edited November 15, 2007 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Spoken like a true naif. Nothing sells itself. Not for any length of time. What would say if Ford pulled all ads for the Edge because the car was 'selling itself' Depends on the market, certain products in certain market do "sell themselves" to an extent. They sell on the strength of their name. That said, since Ford has been written off on so many lists it needs to have a commercial on every five minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 (edited) Ford Cars great European rise in sales in October were down to Volvo +19.7. Jaguar - 24% were still letting Ford down a bit in Europe but T-Stag will be along soon to put some sunshine news on it all very soon. All car sales were up in October, BMW up 28% on last October. FORD Group 10.2 10.0 134,497 125,440 +7.2 10.6 10.5 1,438,729 1,402,916 +2.6 FORD 7.6 7.7 101,034 96,191 +5.0 8.2 8.1 1,107,982 1,091,989 +1.5 VOLVO 1.9 1.6 24,712 20,645 +19.7 1.6 1.5 222,772 201,241 +10.7 LAND ROVER 0.5 0.5 6,599 5,773 +14.3 0.6 0.5 79,021 73,653 +7.3 JAGUAR 0.2 0.2 2,152 2,831 -24.0 0.2 0.3 28,954 36,033 -19.6 http://acea.thisconnect.com/images/uploads...UROPE-Final.pdf Edited November 15, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 And maybe if they would've marketed the *(*$&@# thing............ Excuses, excuses, maybe if they replaced the Focus , maybe if the import the mondeo, maybe if they ..... you were wrong, just admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 you were wrong, just admit it. says the guy who hasn't admitted that he was wrong about Ford market share in Europe. BTW, my admission of error is implicit in the statement, "And maybe if they would've marketed the *(*$&@# thing............" As in "Maybe if they would've marketed the *(*$&@# thing, I would have been right." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Ford N.A. has the Rodney Dangerfield syndrome Ford North America: In the third-quarter, Ford North America reported a pre-tax loss of $1.0 billion compared with a pre-tax loss of $2.1 billion a year ago. Ford South America reported a third-quarter pre-tax profit of $386 million, compared with a pre-tax profit of $201 million a year ago. Ford Europe's third-quarter pre-tax profit was $293 million, compared with a pre-tax loss of $13 million during the same period in 2006. PAG reported a pre-tax loss of $97 million for the third-quarter, compared with a pre-tax loss of $508 million for the same period in 2006. The third-quarter 2007 result reflected a loss at Volvo partially offset by a small profit at the combined Jaguar and Land Rover operation. Ford Asia Pacific and Africa reported a pre-tax profit of $30 million, compared with a pre-tax loss of $56 million a year ago. Mazda: For the third-quarter, Ford earned $18 million from its investment in Mazda and associated operations, compared with $40 million during the same period a year ago. http://www.autospectator.com/cars/ford-cor...er-2007-results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) says the guy who hasn't admitted that he was wrong about Ford market share in Europe. BTW, my admission of error is implicit in the statement, "And maybe if they would've marketed the *(*$&@# thing............" As in "Maybe if they would've marketed the *(*$&@# thing, I would have been right." how am I wrong? For the first 10 months of 2007, Ford of Europe's sales increased by 5.6 per cent (81,730 units), to 1,531,600. Market share improved to 8.9 per cent. how am I wrong??????? they have "increased market share" Richard is the press release wrong??? if it is where would one find the informations of market share in europe? how am I wrong? FORD OCTOBER TOTAL VEHICLE SALES IN EUROPE CLIMB 8 PER CENT FROM YEAR AGO * Results boosted by growing momentum for S-MAX – newly crowned Car of the Year 2007 * October market share is 8.5 per cent, up 0.1 points versus October 2005 * Total vehicle sales through October up 33,000 units or 2 per cent * October sales in Russia more than double to 12,400 units COLOGNE, November 15, 2006 – Lifted by strong performances from small cars, commercial vehicles and the S-MAX – newly crowned Car of the Year 2007 -- Ford in Europe reported sales of 135,000 units for October, an increase of 8 per cent over the same month a year ago. The sales figures for October earned Ford an 8.5 per cent share of the European ve-hicle market, up 0.1 points from the prior year period. Total vehicles sold from the beginning of the year are up 33,300 units to 1,450,000 units, a 2.3 per cent im-provement over the first 10 months of 2005. For the January – October period, Ford's share was 8.8 per cent. Earlier this week the S-MAX was awarded the prestigious title of Car of the Year 2007. Jurors singled the S-MAX out for its style, spaciousness, versatility and driv-ing dynamics. In September, the new version of Ford's iconic Transit commercial vehicle was named the International Van of the Year 2007 after jurors were im-pressed by its driveability and car-like interior features. The last time a single auto-maker won both awards in the same year was over a decade ago, in 1993. "It's satisfying to see that great products like the all-new S-MAX and new Transit are resonating with consumers across Europe," said Stephen Odell, vice president of Marketing, Sales and Service for Ford of Europe. "The strength of the Ford product line, from Fiesta and Fusion up through our award-winning commercial vehicles, means customers have a tremendous selection to pick from within the Blue Oval." On the passenger car front, Ford’s bright spots in October and year-to-date were Fi-esta, Fusion and Ford's best-selling passenger car for years, the Ford Focus. Fiesta sales through October were up 23,000 units or 8 per cent. Fusion retails were 87,900, up 13,000 units, or 17 per cent. Ford Focus sales from January through Oc-tober increased by 10,000 units, or 2 per cent, to 429,800. Ford sold more than 6,200 S-MAX vehicles in October. Since the S-MAX was in-troduced in April, more than 30,000 units have been sold through mid-November. Ford sold 16,300 Transit vehicles in October, a 9 per cent increase over October 2005. In the first ten months of 2006, Ford sold 270,000 commercial vehicles, up 5,500 units or 2 per cent versus the same period last year. More than 160,000 of these were Ford Transits. Ford's most successful market in October and year-to-date in terms of sales was the UK, where the company is on pace to become Britain's top-selling car brand for the 30th successive year. In October, Ford sold 30,900 vehicles in Britain, an increase of 3,000 units, or nearly 11 per cent, versus October 2005. Market share was 16.8 per cent versus 15.3 per cent last year. October year-to-date market share in the UK was 15.9 per cent, up 0.4 points versus 2005. In terms of market share, Ford's most successful market was Russia, where the com-pany sold 12,400 units in October, more than double its October 2005 performance. Ford recorded an import market share of 19.4 per cent versus 13.3 per cent in 2005. For the January to October period, Ford sold 80,300 vehicles in Russia, up 37,600 or 88 per cent versus last year. Ford's sales data includes both passenger cars and commercial vehicles from its 21 major European Sales Companies, including Russia and Turkey. Market share data ex-cludes Russia. Oct 2007 FORD OF EUROPE'S SALES RISE 8.4 PER CENT IN OCTOBER * Ford of Europe sales increased by 11,400 in October to 147,000y * Year-to-date total vehicle sales 5.6 per cent higher, at 1,531,600 COLOGNE, November 13, 2007– Ford of Europe's vehicle sales climbed by 8.4 per cent for the month of October when compared to last year. Total sales for the year so far are 1,531,600. Across its main 21 markets, the company sold more than 147,000 cars and trucks in October, some 11,400 more than in the same month last year. Its market share for the month is 8.4 per cent. The increase was led by surging sales of the new Mondeo, which increased by 6,400 to 17,750 units, and the Transit, which improved by 2,635 to 18,935. The overall top-sellers, however, were the Focus and Fiesta, with increased total sales of 38,925 and 27,000 respectively. Britain and Germany were the Company's top markets, with particularly strong performances in Russia, Italy and France. Compared with last October, Russian sales rose by 3,950, to 16,360. In Italy, Ford sales improved by 2,370, to 18,330, while in France sales increased by 2,585, to 12,790. For the first 10 months of 2007, Ford of Europe's sales increased by 5.6 per cent (81,730 units), to 1,531,600. Market share improved to 8.9 per cent. "Our sales momentum continued in October with strong performances by our new models, like the Mondeo, S-MAX and Galaxy, supporting our established top-sellers, the Focus, Fiesta, Transit and Transit Connect," said Stephen Odell, vice president, Marketing, Sales and Service, Ford of Europe. "We are on course for a record year, and with more new models in the pipeline, we are optimistic that our progress will continue in 2008." yes 8.9% is greater than 8.8%. again, how am I wrong????? Edited November 16, 2007 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 how am I wrong? For the first 10 months of 2007, Ford of Europe's sales increased by 5.6 per cent (81,730 units), to 1,531,600. Market share improved to 8.9 per cent. how am I wrong??????? they have "increased market share" Richard is the press release wrong??? if it is where would one find the informations of market share in europe? how am I wrong? Oct 2007 yes 8.9% is greater than 8.8%. again, how am I wrong????? Didn't he say relatively stable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Quite right, my Greek chorus of one..... Notice who has a problem admitting mistakes. Someone was wrong when they said I was wrong. --that's so like rain on your wedding day-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Me = "In both Europe and the U.S., YTD Ford brand market share is basically unchanged." Biker = "your wrong" Please notice that not only was Biker wrong about me being wrong, he also suffers from homophone confusion. I don't make it a point to be hyper correct about grammatical infelicities, but since someone is bent on portraying me as the guy who's 1) wrong and 2) incapable of admitting mistakes........ Biker, it's you're wrong, not your wrong. One is a contraction of you are, the other is a possessive adjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Quite right, my Greek chorus of one..... Notice who has a problem admitting mistakes. Someone was wrong when they said I was wrong. --that's so like rain on your wedding day-- Eeeeexcellent :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Me = "In both Europe and the U.S., YTD Ford brand market share is basically unchanged." Biker = "your wrong" Please notice that not only was Biker wrong about me being wrong, he also suffers from homophone confusion. I don't make it a point to be hyper correct about grammatical infelicities, but since someone is bent on portraying me as the guy who's 1) wrong and 2) incapable of admitting mistakes........ Biker, it's you're wrong, not your wrong. One is a contraction of you are, the other is a possessive adjective. you're right. it is "you're" not "your" growth vs decline. In what way am I wrong. FOE sales up market share up profits up. retail sales up what is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 In what way am I wrong. You are wrong because you said that my statement was wrong. My statement was that Ford market share was BASICALLY unchanged. A reasonable person would agree that a shift from 8.8% to 8.9% is BASICALLY UNCHANGED. Like I said, you have a real difficulty admitting when you have made a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 RJ should be a politician.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 RJ should be a politician.. I agree. He'd probably do a great deal of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 (edited) I agree. He'd probably do a great deal of good. RJ as a politician? Yeah, I can already see the campaign slogan... First day in office... Media/Press department... Replacing this... with this... etc. Fuck no. Edited November 18, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 You are wrong because you said that my statement was wrong. My statement was that Ford market share was BASICALLY unchanged. A reasonable person would agree that a shift from 8.8% to 8.9% is BASICALLY UNCHANGED. Like I said, you have a real difficulty admitting when you have made a mistake. you, should not be a moderator. this is why people hate to post here. you are making any thread that you don't agree with pointless. dragging this and other topics into the gutter. you would argue about the flower arraignments on the titanic. As with most things you do they have no point but to make your self feel better, how small are you? smug, arrogant, with an ego larger than life. let me feed you ego, I mistakenly misquoted you. again. FOE sales up market share up profits up. retail sales up Is there anything good, going on. hard is it for you to admit that someone is doing something right? maybe even something better than ford NA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) you, should not be a moderator. this is why people hate to post here. you are making any thread that you don't agree with pointless. dragging this and other topics into the gutter. you would argue about the flower arraignments on the titanic. As with most things you do they have no point but to make your self feel better, how small are you? smug, arrogant, with an ego larger than life. let me feed you ego, I mistakenly misquoted you. again. FOE sales up market share up profits up. retail sales up European sales for all cars went up 5.5% in October as a whole anything below this was below the average, thanks to Volvo & Land Rover Ford Car group 7.2% was an above average result. FORD 101,034 +5.0 VOLVO 24,712 +19.7 LAND ROVER 6,599 +14.3 JAGUAR 2,152 -24.0 http://acea.thisconnect.com/images/uploads...UROPE-Final.pdf Edited November 19, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Jaguar sales in Europe are down despite the XK? I thought the XK was the savior of Jaguar, I thought the lower sales in US is because they're selling all of the XKs in Europe. Lol, I was right after all, Jaguar has no place in our world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 you, should not be a moderator. this is why people hate to post here. you are making any thread that you don't agree with pointless. dragging this and other topics into the gutter. you would argue about the flower arraignments on the titanic. As with most things you do they have no point but to make your self feel better, how small are you? smug, arrogant, with an ego larger than life. let me feed you ego, I mistakenly misquoted you. again. FOE sales up market share up profits up. retail sales up Is there anything good, going on. hard is it for you to admit that someone is doing something right? maybe even something better than ford NA? Yes, we all hate to post here. IF on the other hand you look at the GM Source, a much more active forum.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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