Another BONer prediction bites the dust

[old_fairmont_wagon]

IMHO, the Escape as it stands is a competent product that is selling above published expectations. Could it be better? Sure, it could. But, at this point, its got the plant above base capacity and they are using OT to satisfy current demand. If they had put in the D35 and a 6AT to please some of us, if they had used rear disc brakes, they might have a bit more demand, and perhaps they'd be at the theoretical maximum output for the plant and be able to price them up some due to the excessive demand. However, given the CURRENT SET OF CONDITIONS, I don't believe that they would have been ableto recoup the extra development money it would have taken to boost D35 production sooner rather than later, accelerate the platform testing of the D35 in the Escape, make the neccessary front end modifications to accomodate the 6AT, and then deal with the added cost of the rear disc brakes over the rear drums. They can't reasonably produce more than 5-10% more units per year then they do now without tooling up another factory (a VERY expensive proposition). They couldn't have asked more than a few hundred dollars more per unit then they currently do due to several competent competitors being in that market. Those extra investment dollars would have actually decreased their profit per unit within those constraints.

 

Now, given time to wait for the original D35 ramp up plans to take place, they can then make a mid cycle change and get the D35 in there. (rumor from Blue II) or get the PIP D30 in there (which, according to the rumors forum, may not be dead as per the most recent contract talks/ratification) which will make it more competitive at minimal investment. The rear discs I do not expect to see in this model cycle, unless they introduce an SE, which is unlikely.

 

For Ford's purposes, if its keeping the factory at capacity, its a success. They are achieving all of their economies of scale, and, with the recent labor contract, likely also seeing reduced cost of production now.

[RichardJensen]

BTW: Can anyone tell me why disc brakes are more expensive than drum brakes?

 

From my limited DIY (more like DIY with a spotter, in terms of brake jobs) perspective, it seems like there are fewer parts with disc brakes: rotor, 2 part caliper + piston and a few dust boots, and a rotor shield, vs. the myriad parts in a drum brake, with what would seem to be more time to assemble a drum brake.

 

Yet, obviously, disc brakes are more expensive to mfr. Why?

Edited November 29, 2007 by RichardJensen

[silvrsvt]

Yet, obviously, disc brakes are more expensive to mfr. Why?

 

Material costs? I'd assume that the steel that a rotor is made out of costs alot more then then a drum that just has to have a higher quaitly liner where the shoes touch it.

[RichardJensen]

Material costs? I'd assume that the steel that a rotor is made out of costs alot more then then a drum that just has to have a higher quaitly liner where the shoes touch it.

I would assume more costs with the caliper than the rotor; the rotors seem to be made of the same steel as the drums--they both oxidize heavily...

[LincolnFan]

there is no Rav4 hybrid.

 

Igor

 

Err >_> owned.

[Blueblood]

people need to stop attacking each other personally - I am guilty myself at times - but we need to tone this down ... it is getting ridiculous.

 

Igor

 

Yea, I feel like I'm on some teenage flame board sometimes..

[Moosetang]

Yea, I feel like I'm on some teenage flame board sometimes..

This is the internet, unfortunately they're all teenage flame boards.

[RichardJensen]

Yea, I feel like I'm on some teenage flame board sometimes..

You don't contribute anything to that atmosphere, now do you? You're always above the fray. Never swearing. Never calling anyone a troll or a tool, an idiot, or a fool, right?

[Watchdevil]

It is as if people here do not want Ford to succeed.

 

The Escape is losing Market Share in this ballooning segment, it is bargain bin priced, fleet dumped and the CR-V and RAV 4 Eclipsed it, i don't understand why such fools praise mediocre uncompetitive products.

 

The Explorer is also suffering from what I call "Falcon" disease... Thats's when the Falcon stayed in a conservative unchanged boxy style while other Ford models were evolving with the latest design language.

[snooter]

the escape is not for me no matter wahat ford does..im 6 foot 280 pounds so the escape is just to small...the edge on the other hand is starting to intrigue me...i consider the edge to be like a 6 beer chick..and i am on my fourth beer..

[BORG]

I thought the Escape looked very attractive once it debuted, not very fresh but a substantial improvement over the extraordinarily bland Tupperware predecessor. The interior is what really excited me, still the best looking Ford interior to date.

 

I'm less enthusiastic about it after seeing the VUE around town, that is a much more appealing vehicle all around.

 

My Dad has his eye on the I4 Escape for the reason many are buying Escapes now, fuel economy.

 

The Escape is sold heavily to fleet and daily rentals so that may also contribute to the sales surge.

Edited November 30, 2007 by BORG

[suv_guy_19]

I'm less enthusiastic about it after seeing the VUE around town, that is a much more appealing vehicle all around.

 

 

I saw one the other day. It looks lie almost every other small crossover on the market. I really didn't think that it was anything too special.

[RichardJensen]

The Escape is sold heavily to fleet and daily rentals so that may also contribute to the sales surge.

Did you read my sarcastic post and take it literally? How likely is it that Ford will add a 3rd shift, in order to bolster fleet sales?

[igor]

I saw one the other day. It looks lie almost every other small crossover on the market. I really didn't think that it was anything too special.

you should sit inside one - the only thing keeping me from buying one is the fuel economy - when I can get 29mpg from a V6 Rav4 getting 23 mpg from the Vue is unacceptable .. at least for me ... I would not be happy ...

 

Igor

[papilgee4evaeva]

Good to see it selling... I actually like it now after the redesign.

 

What's most interesting to me is that almost all (80-90%) of the new Escapes I've seen have been hybrids.

[RichardJensen]

you should sit inside one - the only thing keeping me from buying one is the fuel economy - when I can get 29mpg from a V6 Rav4 getting 23 mpg from the Vue is unacceptable .. at least for me ... I would not be happy ...

 

Igor

VUE is quite heavy.......

[suv_guy_19]

you should sit inside one - the only thing keeping me from buying one is the fuel economy - when I can get 29mpg from a V6 Rav4 getting 23 mpg from the Vue is unacceptable .. at least for me ... I would not be happy ...

 

Igor

 

 

Yeah, but to me the outside is what matters and I really don't see anything exciting in it. As long as the inside is good (doesn't have to be great). Don't get me wrong, I like a good interior, but its not my #1 priority.

[BORG]

The Escape is noting special to ya know! The VUE is on a better more refined chassis with modern drivetrain hardware. The D30 is very hard to live with (IMO), very course and unrefined. The Escape did not receive a substantial NVH upgrade, I think noise levels were only reduced by 10 percent, and that was one of the Escapes biggest problem from my personal experience (and remains a problem according to reviewers). The Escape really needs a more substantive upgrade than it got so it's good they cut the price a bit while improving the details and decor. The Escape, like the old Cavalier, is the least sophisticated of the group, but targets a consumer far more interested in real world value, they really just want a car they can afford! It's a low aspirational vehicle so there is no need (like the Focus) to spend big bucks to keep it state of the art.

Edited November 30, 2007 by BORG

[P71_CrownVic]

I'm less enthusiastic about it after seeing the VUE around town, that is a much more appealing vehicle all around.

 

And what is the Vue? Thats right, a re-badged Opel Antara. Brought over from Europe to receive great reviews.

 

The thing that gets me is the weight of the ting. 4300 pounds!!

[P71_CrownVic]

Yeah, but to me the outside is what matters and I really don't see anything exciting in it. As long as the inside is good (doesn't have to be great). Don't get me wrong, I like a good interior, but its not my #1 priority.

So to you, as long as the area where you spend 99.9% of your time in an automobile is "okay" and the looks are great...it is great by you?

 

Maybe you do work for Ford...

[suv_guy_19]

The Escape is noting special to ya know! The VUE is on a better more refined chassis with modern drivetrain hardware. The D30 is very hard to live with (IMO), very course and unrefined. The Escape did not receive a substantial NVH upgrade, I think noise levels were only reduced by 10 percent, and that was one of the Escapes biggest problem from my personal experience (and remains a problem according to reviewers). The Escape really needs a more substantive upgrade than it got so it's good they cut the price a bit while improving the details and decor. The Escape, like the old Cavalier, is the least sophisticated of the group, but targets a consumer far more interested in real world value, they really just want a car they can afford! It's a low aspirational vehicle so there is no need (like the Focus) to spend big bucks to keep it state of the art.

 

 

I don't think the escape is anything special either. I doubt any small CUV would impress me. The only thing I like about the Escape is that it took a different route from all others on the exterior. Just for argument sake, 10% can make a big difference. A great deal many people really like the Escape. Many like the view as well. I wouldn't want either.

[suv_guy_19]

So to you, as long as the area where you spend 99.9% of your time in an automobile is "okay" and the looks are great...it is great by you?

 

Maybe you do work for Ford...

 

 

The interior can't be awful, but I'm not nearly as nit picky as many people here. I think that fact that many people are much too picky is a major problem with many things today.

[BORG]

And what is the Vue? Thats right, a re-badged Opel Antara. Brought over from Europe to receive great reviews.

 

The thing that gets me is the weight of the ting. 4300 pounds!!

 

I drive an MKX which is a notoriously bloated and overweight product with TERRIBLE gas mileage. But I'm happy because it feels smoother, quieter, etc... I'm far more interested in the end-user experience than the compromises that need to be made to make the car light and fluffy (especially compromises that would have driven the price even higher).

Edited November 30, 2007 by BORG

[P71_CrownVic]

The interior can't be awful, but I'm not nearly as nit picky as many people here. I think that fact that many people are much too picky is a major problem with many things today.

It is quiet understandable when it comes to interiors.

[suv_guy_19]

It is quiet understandable when it comes to interiors.

 

 

 

You don't seem to care very much. Really its not that understandable. I don't care about things like soft touch in most places because I don't sit there feeling up the dash. Unless the interior is awful it really doesn't bother me.