FoMoCo November 2007 Sales

[P71_CrownVic]

And its better if you are in a snowy place even when the RWD has traction aids. Snow tires make the difference less noticeable, but its still there to an extent.

We just had two snow storms roll through the Twin Cities and I only saw FWD cars in the ditch. My open diff., RWD car went through everything...sideways (nothing like drifting on public roads and getting away with it).

[suv_guy_19]

We just had two snow storms roll through the Twin Cities and I only saw FWD cars in the ditch. My open diff., RWD car went through everything...sideways (nothing like drifting on public roads and getting away with it).

 

I drive 3 hours each direction to get home each week. I have FWD with good year nordic tires. I never have a problem and I never have to slide to get around.

[P71_CrownVic]

Does an Explorer/Expedition have a max towing capacity of 11,000 lbs?

 

Don't Explorers and Expeditions come with a 3rd row as standard or optional equipment. The same 3rd rows that fold to make a flat load floor?

 

Haven't we discussed that costs and aftermarket performance upgrades were the major determinates as to why the Mustang doesn't have an IRS?

 

Wait.....

 

Aren't you kidding?

I just think it is ASS backwards that the big, lumbering SUVs get IRS while Ford's ONLY performance car gets an ancient solid axle.

[RichardJensen]

We just had two snow storms roll through the Twin Cities and I only saw FWD cars in the ditch. My open diff., RWD car went through everything...sideways (nothing like drifting on public roads and getting away with it).

only FWD cars.

 

Well, apart from the Mustang, old F-Bodies, panthers, the LX cars, and luxury cars in general, how many RWD cars are there?

 

Most cars are FWD, ergo most cars in ditch will be FWD.

[630land]

RWD is superior for drag racing, and performance. But, for daily driving, and economy.. and with $3 gas, guess what works.

 

Anyway, no, RWD is not making a comeback, but it's not going away with high gas prices either.

 

And if so many people want big RWD cars, why isn't the Crown Vic the #1 car? No if's.

[SVT_MAN]

We just had two snow storms roll through the Twin Cities and I only saw FWD cars in the ditch. My open diff., RWD car went through everything...sideways (nothing like drifting on public roads and getting away with it).

 

I live in Wisconsin and we got that same snowstorm. You know what I saw in the ditch most often? 4 wheel drives. Why? Dumb ass soccer moms who think that they are invincible because of 4wd. It's 4 wheel stop on all cars, you big dummy. What's scary is they are pushing around at least 1.5x the mass of a standard passenger car. It'll take that much longer to stop.

 

The only reason people end up in the ditch is making erratic manuevers or driving too fast for conditions anyway. If everybody drove like they're supposed to in the snow, nobody would have problems.

 

The only cars that do have problems are RWD cars - and their only problems is in terms of getting going.

 

I live in the Kettle Moraine area of Wiscosin - home to .. well, kettles and moraines. Very hilly. I can recall one time three years ago when we got about 8 inches of snow in about 3 or 4 hours. For some reason I had the Jaguar XJ6 at work that day - I believe it was because my mom was using my Sable for something. There was one hill that I got half way up, and the car stopped moving. I never let my foot off the gas or puprosely tried to lose momentum. It just happened. It was just sitting there spinning.

 

Luckily, no one was behind me. So, I backed up down the hill and backed up so I could get a running start. So, I sped up to about 20 mph, white knuckled it up the hill. I've never been so scared I was going to wreck a car in my life. (Then again, I've only been driving for about 4 years ..) To make it more challenging, the hill had a curve. That car was wobbling like a fish up that hill.

 

In any case, when I finally made it home after that horrendous drive, I told my dad we needed to invest in some snow tires for that car - at least on the rear. We now have some snow tires on th rear and it works great. We bought the same snow tires for our XJ8 L ... works nicely in that case too. RWDs are fine provided you aren't running all seasons. Get snow tires.

Edited December 5, 2007 by SVT_MAN

[suv_guy_19]

I live in Wisconsin and we got that same snowstorm. You know what I saw in the ditch most often? 4 wheel drives. Why? Dumb ass soccer moms who think that they are invincible because of 4wd. It's 4 wheel stop on all cars, you big dummy. What's scary is they are pushing around at least 1.5x the mass of a standard passenger car. It'll take that much longer to stop.

 

The only reason people end up in the ditch is making erratic manuevers or driving too fast for conditions anyway. If everybody drove like they're supposed to in the snow, nobody would have problems.

 

The only cars that do have problems are RWD cars - and their only problems is in terms of getting going.

 

I live in the Kettle Moraine area of Wiscosin - home to .. well, kettles and moraines. Very hilly. I can recall one time three years ago when we got about 8 inches of snow in about 3 or 4 hours. For some reason I had the Jaguar XJ6 at work that day - I believe it was because my mom was using my Sable for something. There was one hill that I got half way up, and the car stopped moving. I never let my foot off the gas or puprosely tried to lose momentum. It just happened. It was just sitting there spinning.

 

Luckily, no one was behind me. So, I backed up down the hill and backed up so I could get a running start. So, I sped up to about 20 mph, white knuckled it up the hill. I've never been so scared I was going to wreck a car in my life. (Then again, I've only been driving for about 4 years ..) To make it more challenging, the hill had a curve. That car was wobbling like a fish up that hill.

 

In any case, when I finally made it home after that horrendous drive, I told my dad we needed to invest in some snow tires for that car - at least on the rear. We now have some snow tires on th rear and it works great. We bought the same snow tires for our XJ8 L ... works nicely in that case too. RWDs are fine provided you aren't running all seasons. Get snow tires.

 

 

You should get Snow tires on the front too. Helps with turning. Problem is, you don't even know its slippery until you come to stop. You also stop faster though so it helps all the way around.

Edited December 5, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[P71_CrownVic]

You should get Snow tires on the front too. Helps with turning. Problem is, you don't even know its slippery until you come to stop. You also stop faster though so it helps all the way around.

I second that. I have very crappy (Winterforce) snow tires on my car and even they make a huge difference. Stopping is whats most impressive.

 

Quick story, I was on my way to my grandma's house to snow blow her driveway. As I crossed I-94, my ass end stepped out a bit. They aren't joking when they say that overpasses freeze much sooner than anything else. I didn't even increase my throttle at all, the rear wheels began to spin. I let up and was fine. I think "overcorrection" is a huge reason people end up in the ditch.

[P71_CrownVic]

RWDs are fine provided you aren't running all seasons. Get snow tires.

 

I think that the WORST snow tires are better than the best All seasons.

[P71_CrownVic]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it.

Actually, that grille is the Taurus grille w/ the colors inverted, so, in a way, it is a rendition of the 3-bar grille. It follows the Expedition's take on the 3-bar grille though.

 

Actually, I like the chrome Expy grill. Reminds me of, what I think is the best looking truck of modern times...

 

 

D.R.O.O.L.

[suv_guy_19]

I second that. I have very crappy (Winterforce) snow tires on my car and even they make a huge difference. Stopping is whats most impressive.

 

Quick story, I was on my way to my grandma's house to snow blow her driveway. As I crossed I-94, my ass end stepped out a bit. They aren't joking when they say that overpasses freeze much sooner than anything else. I didn't even increase my throttle at all, the rear wheels began to spin. I let up and was fine. I think "overcorrection" is a huge reason people end up in the ditch.

 

 

Yes, if you look at any bridge while its snowing lightly, you will see the snow start to collect there and not on the rest of the road because of ground warmth. I had a couple of scary moments. I was driving my bosses new Pacifica and it has really wide tires (235) and is wide itself (like 80 inches). There was slush on the road and it caught the edge because it would not fit well in the beaten track. It began to pull to the right. i just let off the gas, kept looking where I wanted to go, and it went back to the middle. The back began to slide out, but I kept the front wheels going with the road, and it corrected itself. they say that the trick is to look where you want to go. you almost always find a way to get there. And don't touch the brakes!!! ever.

Edited December 5, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[suv_guy_19]

Actually, I like the chrome Expy grill. Reminds me of, what I think is the best looking truck of modern times...

 

 

D.R.O.O.L.

 

 

I like the truck, but I would want it to have a short box.

[silvrsvt]

I just think it is ASS backwards that the big, lumbering SUVs get IRS while Ford's ONLY performance car gets an ancient solid axle.

 

Have you even driven the 05+ Mustang? It works quite nicely with its Ancient solid axle. IRS would be nice, but the car is fine for 98% of roads driven by people everyday. It just gets hated on by the press and uneducated people because people think its "old" just like the Panthers :P

[GreyPony]

Have you even driven the 05+ Mustang? It works quite nicely with its Ancient solid axle. IRS would be nice, but the car is fine for 98% of roads driven by people everyday. It just gets hated on by the press and uneducated people because people think its "old" just like the Panthers :P

 

 

The solide axle was put in on purpose. And it rides GREAT! I have an '05 Mustang as my daily driver. I wouldn't want it any other way. But that's just me. :reading:

[silvrsvt]

The solide axle was put in on purpose. And it rides GREAT! I have an '05 Mustang as my daily driver. I wouldn't want it any other way. But that's just me. :reading:

 

 

I agree with you, I had an SVT Focus which was pretty well known for its good handling and the 06 GT I have now doesn't give up much to the SVT and kills it in the Torque dept.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an IRS on a Mustang, just to see how it rides though...

[Hemiman]

I live in Wisconsin and we got that same snowstorm. You know what I saw in the ditch most often? 4 wheel drives. Why? Dumb ass soccer moms who think that they are invincible because of 4wd. It's 4 wheel stop on all cars, you big dummy. What's scary is they are pushing around at least 1.5x the mass of a standard passenger car. It'll take that much longer to stop.

 

 

DING! You nailed that one. It's almost commical. The RWDs are off on the shoulder, the FWDs are into the snow bank, & the idiots in the AWD/4WDs are WAY off the road in the ditch! I don't get it. It snows EVERY winter where I live, yet all the idiots still try to run at 65-70 mph in the stuff.

[silvrsvt]

DING! You nailed that one. It's almost commical. The RWDs are off on the shoulder, the FWDs are into the snow bank, & the idiots in the AWD/4WDs are WAY off the road in the ditch! I don't get it. It snows EVERY winter where I live, yet all the idiots still try to run at 65-70 mph in the stuff.

 

 

all the safety options in the world can't defeat the laws of physics....

[Hemiman]

Quick story, I was on my way to my grandma's house to snow blow her driveway. As I crossed I-94, my ass end stepped out a bit. They aren't joking when they say that overpasses freeze much sooner than anything else. I didn't even increase my throttle at all, the rear wheels began to spin. I let up and was fine. I think "overcorrection" is a huge reason people end up in the ditch.

 

 

Here's another.

 

My wife picked me up at the airport late one December night in her 94 T-Bird V8. On the way home, I could feel the rear end slipping on the overpasses. Watched the tach & sure enough the needle would swing up each time. I asked her, "don't you feel that"? She said "what". I said "these brigdes are a sheet of ice, let off on the gas a little on them". Too late! Next bridge, the back came around, we did a quick 540deg turn accross the bridge, went through the grass median backwards, came to rest on the shoulder on opposite side of the median facing in the correct direction for that traffic flow. She, collected herself and started to go back through the median to get back to the other side. At which I said "no, you'll get stuck", (it was all mud). She decided to let me drive the rest of the way!

 

BTW, she's actually a very good driver, not sure why she couldn't sense the wheel slip on this occassion.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Hemiman

[Michael Reynolds]

Sales numbers don't indicate greatness, besides, the most un-educated people about cars are the fools buying Toyota's and Honda's.

 

But if you look at Lexus they are all RWD with the exception of the ES, and why? Because even they know that people who aren't just buying a cheap appliance want RWD.

 

And look at Honda, how is that FWD RL doing? Or that FWD Ridgeline which buckles sheetmetal driving through a ditch?

 

RWD is superior, otherwise F1 and all other race cars would be FWD.

 

Who said anything about a luxury car. I thought we were talking about a plebian Ford Taurus. Something that has much of nothing to do with Lexus.

 

Those fools that blindly buy Honda's and Toyota's used to have justfication as their products were quality.

 

Sales numbers, when acheived the right way, don't have to indicate greatness. What they have to do is bolster a bleeding company's bottom line.

 

Who cares if RWD is superior, when the benefits won't be realized by the bulk of the driving population. Not everyone is an enthusiast. Just because you or I think that it is a great idea, everyone else could beg to differ.

[P71_CrownVic]

Here's another.

 

My wife picked me up at the airport late one December night in her 94 T-Bird V8. On the way home, I could feel the rear end slipping on the overpasses. Watched the tach & sure enough the needle would swing up each time. I asked her, "don't you feel that"? She said "what". I said "these brigdes are a sheet of ice, let off on the gas a little on them". Too late! Next bridge, the back came around, we did a quick 540deg turn accross the bridge, went through the grass median backwards, came to rest on the shoulder on opposite side of the median facing in the correct direction for that traffic flow. She, collected herself and started to go back through the median to get back to the other side. At which I said "no, you'll get stuck", (it was all mud). She decided to let me drive the rest of the way!

 

BTW, she's actually a very good driver, not sure why she couldn't sense the wheel slip on this occassion.

Thats awesome. However it could have been very ugly. I am amazed that you flew through the median and ended up facing the correct direction of travel.

[armadamaster]

I'll stop using that excuse when Ford actually puts some effort behind advertising them and when I ask people if they considered looking at a new Taurus they reply "there's a new Taurus?"

 

Most people say that about the Panthers...nothing to do with all that Panther advertising I'm sure. [/sarcasm] Oh...exceptfor Panthers instead of "there's a new one" you get "they still make those?"

 

Why does every single topic around here end up centering around the 30 year old Panther platform???

 

 

If I knew nothing about Ford vehicles I would assume that this car line is the most important product that Ford Motor Company produces today after reading some of these forums.

 

Heh...from my perspective, if the U.S. auto buying public had any sense, any sedan sought after larger than a Fusion would by default be a Panther....hands down. But since when has the auto buying public had any sense...hmmmm?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Armada Master

[silvrsvt]

Heh...from my perspective, if the U.S. auto buying public had any sense, any sedan sought after larger than a Fusion would by default be a Panther....hands down. But since when has the auto buying public had any sense...hmmmm?

 

Why would any major auto manufacture give a fuck what you want when all your cars buy are used?

[Noah Harbinger]

Why would any major auto manufacture give a fuck what you want when all your cars buy are used?

 

Seconded.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

I agree with you, I had an SVT Focus which was pretty well known for its good handling and the 06 GT I have now doesn't give up much to the SVT and kills it in the Torque dept.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an IRS on a Mustang, just to see how it rides though...

 

When you come to trade your Focus in you find its a worthless piece of junk, but the Mustang will at least hold most of its value.

[suv_guy_19]

Most people say that about the Panthers...nothing to do with all that Panther advertising I'm sure. [/sarcasm] Oh...exceptfor Panthers instead of "there's a new one" you get "they still make those?"

Heh...from my perspective, if the U.S. auto buying public had any sense, any sedan sought after larger than a Fusion would by default be a Panther....hands down. But since when has the auto buying public had any sense...hmmmm?

 

 

This from someone who sees no benefit of the ETC or really any advance of any kind.