cnorman1974 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I wonder, when the relationship between Navistar and Ford ends, who should make the diesel for the Super Duty? Personally, I think that Cat would be one hell of an engine..........can you imagine the possibilities? :banvictory: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I wonder, when the relationship between Navistar and Ford ends, who should make the diesel for the Super Duty? Personally, I think that Cat would be one hell of an engine..........can you imagine the possibilities? :banvictory: From what I read there is no CAT that is small enough, cheap enough, light enough, high revving enough, etc. They should try to get cummings or just do pull their own in. One of the best things I think C has going for it is that they dont have a twin turbo. Twin turbos in TDIs are just too expensive and too much liability on the road. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ford is developing their own diesel for when they kick Navistar to the curb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ford is developing their own diesel for when they kick Navistar to the curb. Navistar just bought GM's medium duty truck business. They will do OK. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7122000845.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Ford is developing their own diesel As it should be. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnorman1974 Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 From what I read there is no CAT that is small enough, cheap enough, light enough, high revving enough, etc.They should try to get cummings or just do pull their own in. One of the best things I think C has going for it is that they dont have a twin turbo. Twin turbos in TDIs are just too expensive and too much liability on the road. Peace and Blessings If Caterpillar were to develop a small engine specifically for the Super Duty, and put in their famous pulling power, where you only have to go around 1200 to 1400 rpm and never have to rev it high, Ford would have a winner there. I should know about Cat because I used to drive long haul, and Cat power is the best out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 If Caterpillar were to develop a small engine specifically for the Super Duty, and put in their famous pulling power, where you only have to go around 1200 to 1400 rpm and never have to rev it high, Ford would have a winner there. I should know about Cat because I used to drive long haul, and Cat power is the best out there. Funny I argued this before and would back you up if I hadn't read your anti Ford posts! Caterpillar F-150 The Lion 4.4 is and will be more that adequate, good MPG and plenty of power. Just like me if you want a CAT/Ford you will have to build one!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Funny I argued this before and would back you up if I hadn't read your anti Ford posts! Caterpillar F-150 The Lion 4.4 is and will be more that adequate, good MPG and plenty of power. Just like me if you want a CAT/Ford you will have to build one!!!!!! Not bad looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaviCat Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 From what I read there is no CAT that is small enough, cheap enough, light enough, high revving enough, etc.They should try to get cummings or just do pull their own in. One of the best things I think C has going for it is that they dont have a twin turbo. Twin turbos in TDIs are just too expensive and too much liability on the road. Peace and Blessings Dude, the "g" in CUMMINS is silent. In any case Ford has jerked around Cummins several times over the past few years and I doubt they have any interest in doing business with the blue oval. Hell Ford even owned a small part of Cummins in the early '90's and they never took advantage of the relationship then. Cat does not currently make engines in this class and I'd doubt they have any interest in making this large an investment for a relatively small return. This company makes their money in construction equipment, and loose engine sales are but a small percentage of their overall profits. The best bet is that Ford are develping their own in-house engine, but they'll have a steep learning curve with not much time to execute. Another big emissions change coming for 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 The best bet is that Ford are develping their own in-house engine, but they'll have a steep learning curve with not much time to execute. Another big emissions change coming for 2010. Guess you haven't seen or heard about their European Diesel units...which are world class. I'm sure that they will do fine with the Scorpion Diesel they are working on...or at least better then the 6.4L launch :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 I wonder, when the relationship between Navistar and Ford ends, who should make the diesel for the Super Duty? Personally, I think that Cat would be one hell of an engine..........can you imagine the possibilities? :banvictory: 2 in house diesels: 6.7l V8 and 4.4 l V8 Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Dude, the "g" in CUMMINS is silent. In any case Ford has jerked around Cummins several times over the past few years and I doubt they have any interest in doing business with the blue oval. Hell Ford even owned a small part of Cummins in the early '90's and they never took advantage of the relationship then. Cat does not currently make engines in this class and I'd doubt they have any interest in making this large an investment for a relatively small return. This company makes their money in construction equipment, and loose engine sales are but a small percentage of their overall profits. The best bet is that Ford are develping their own in-house engine, but they'll have a steep learning curve with not much time to execute. Another big emissions change coming for 2010. Cat does build engines that will fit the F-Series, they would have to outfit them for highway emissions but it is possible! CAT also carries marketing attributes, the reason I backed off of the arguement was because of Navistar cutting us off. Ford needs it's own inhouse deisel and the Lion 4.4 will do if it performs the same as it did in EU, with the mandatory U.S. emissions equipment! Just think of getting between 26 and 30 MPG out of a 1/2 ton full size pick-up. The only thing we have to worry about now is the $3.85 cost per gallon for deisel, this can hurt if Ford can't build them and sell them for less than the gas models and still turn a profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWMJ-KTP Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Ford is building their own diesel for the 2011 Super Duty. International has even tried to sue Ford over this just in the last 6 months or so. If Ford was not going to build their own Diesel, Caterpillar would be the best hands down from a marketing point of view. Ford really pushes the constrction site image, and Caterpillar is a legend amongst the construction community. It would give Ford a real advantage to have the bragging rights of a Caterpillar engine in their trucks. I've worried that Toyota may pursue the use of Caterpillar to try to gain instant credibility when or if they ever build a Heavy Duty version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) Ford is building their own diesel for the 2011 Super Duty. International has even tried to sue Ford over this just in the last 6 months or so. If Ford was not going to build their own Diesel, Caterpillar would be the best hands down from a marketing point of view. Ford really pushes the constrction site image, and Caterpillar is a legend amongst the construction community. It would give Ford a real advantage to have the bragging rights of a Caterpillar engine in their trucks. I've worried that Toyota may pursue the use of Caterpillar to try to gain instant credibility when or if they ever build a Heavy Duty version. I said the same thing on a previous thread, it is not only the the construction industry, but also the trucking industry that has respect for CAT motors! I'm glad you posted what you know to be true, and only wish you had come earlier. I would think that CAT would not sell out to Toyota, but then again I thought the same for Ted Nugent! Edited December 27, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Ford is building their own diesel for the 2011 Super Duty. International has even tried to sue Ford over this just in the last 6 months or so. If Ford was not going to build their own Diesel, Caterpillar would be the best hands down from a marketing point of view. Ford really pushes the constrction site image, and Caterpillar is a legend amongst the construction community. It would give Ford a real advantage to have the bragging rights of a Caterpillar engine in their trucks. I've worried that Toyota may pursue the use of Caterpillar to try to gain instant credibility when or if they ever build a Heavy Duty version. As Furious1Auto said, I really couldn't see Caterpillar working with Toyota on an engine. I would think it would want to work w/ Ford (which it doesn't) before Toyota anyways. I suppose we'll see soon enough though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 As Furious1Auto said, I really couldn't see Caterpillar working with Toyota on an engine. I would think it would want to work w/ Ford (which it doesn't) before Toyota anyways. I suppose we'll see soon enough though. Caterpillar is a UAW organized company, I don't think that Toyota would be that stupid to give us an inroad to their facilities no matter how desperate they may be to sell their junk Tundra! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 As Furious1Auto said, I really couldn't see Caterpillar working with Toyota on an engine. I would think it would want to work w/ Ford (which it doesn't) before Toyota anyways. I suppose we'll see soon enough though. You guys may want to resaerch how Cat does business. They have a good working relationship with non-US companies. At one time Komatsu made small dozers and excavators for Cat, while Cat made large excavators for Komatsu. This may still be true, I'm not sure. Cat would jump at the chance to sell more of its product, (engines in this case) and if it's to Toyota, so be it. I doubt this will happen though since cat really doesn't have a suitable engine for this application. I'd look at their marine offerings to get something close. As for the Super Duty, I'd like to see it treated like a heavy truck, where the buyer could spec out: Engine, trans, axles.... from varoius vendors. EPA most likely prohibits this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 (edited) You guys may want to resaerch how Cat does business. They have a good working relationship with non-US companies. At one time Komatsu made small dozers and excavators for Cat, while Cat made large excavators for Komatsu. This may still be true, I'm not sure. Cat would jump at the chance to sell more of its product, (engines in this case) and if it's to Toyota, so be it. I doubt this will happen though since cat really doesn't have a suitable engine for this application. I'd look at their marine offerings to get something close. As for the Super Duty, I'd like to see it treated like a heavy truck, where the buyer could spec out: Engine, trans, axles.... from varoius vendors. EPA most likely prohibits this though. Cat is already buildng a line of small engines for off road machines and is looking to expand it's market LINK, they only have to make them meet highway emissions standards. The EPA doesn't dictate to light truck manufacturers who can build their engines but rather Ford and other truck manufacturers cannot guarrantee any sort of volume when multiple manufacturers are supplying them motors. Without a volume guarantee why would any deisel manufacturer go throught the expense (R&D, and design) to build or outfit their product with emissions equipment to meet highway standards! If anyone has the necessary volume to persuade CAT to build a light truck highway engine it is Ford, the Tundra's volume is not enough to guarantee anything significant! To my knowledge no Komatsu houses a CAT engine but then again when I was excavating my previous employer only bought CAT equipment! Their was a CAT 425 HP in the Ford 9000 I drove for him though! Edited December 27, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 CAT sponsors a NA$CAR Toyo...or at least they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERKURXR4Ti Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Toyota is already affiliated with a truck company that makes diesels, Hino I think, they had one in that big ugly SEMA concept that pretended to tow a parked trailer... As Furious1Auto has been saying for months (years?) it would be great to have a CAT in the superduty or 150, but in the long run it will save money to do the work in-house Still wouldn't mind having that badge on my truck though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Toyota is already affiliated with a truck company that makes diesels, Hino I think, they had one in that big ugly SEMA concept that pretended to tow a parked trailer... As Furious1Auto has been saying for months (years?) it would be great to have a CAT in the superduty or 150, but in the long run it will save money to do the work in-house Still wouldn't mind having that badge on my truck though Agreed! That and the security that comes along with having control over supply. I lost 8 months of over time and had down weeks just because Navistar stopped shipments of deisels when Ford demanded they pay their portion of the warranty costs on their motors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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