Tundra 2007 Sales numbers??

[TomServo92]

What is so funny to me is that the hard core GM/Ford people say that acceleration is not important in a truck. Its so ironic that the Tundra will just blow the doors off what is out there right now but back in the day those same people liked to beat up on that turd (older tundras) for not having power, size, ect................ Talk about hypocrites.

 

THe problem with the previous gen wasn't acceleration. It was towing and payload.

[Ford??-LOL!]

Some of the comments on this thread are beyond stupid. We even had one clown suggest government regulation to stop Toyota How about the obvious? How about Ford building vehicles people actually want?? The F series will not keep on saving the company as is evidenced by the 13% sales dip this year. The days of Americans buying domestics just to be patriotic are over. If domestics build junk, Americans have no issues flocking to imports as is the current situation. Here is a quote from a truck trend article:

 

"The recent launch of the new Tundra hasn't been without a few hiccups. Several months ago, an early output of camshafts in the 5.7-liter V-8 were failing. Toyota traced down all the affected parts to a specific batch and have since made the corrections to the design. No failures have surfaced since. More recently, there've been some reports of transmission shudder under certain low-speed conditions, which dealers have traced to a torque-converter issue. Toyota says these incidents were isolated and also have been resolved. And, finally, there's been chatter on the Internet concerning tailgate problems, which Toyota is in the process of tracking down. Stories like these spread like wildfire, unfortunately, given the lightning-rod effect this new truck is having with enthusiasts and the speed with which an Internet item can travel."

 

Source: Article

 

The quality issues that you guys seem to go on and on about the Tundra are mainly fixed according to truck trends. On the rear occasion when Toyota slips, they quickly fix whatever is wrong and get back on the right track. Looks like Americans do not care and still put their trust in Toyota. As Ford fans and drivers, i am sure you are well aware of the quality problems with your favorite products. I need not list them. I would love to see Ford do better in 2008 and i can only hope that the people that run it do not think like the die hard fans in this thread. I hope they realize there is a problem that needs addressing. As for the massive Tundra rebates that some talk about, Ford had them too. I saw Ford commercials where up to $5000 off was offered. As this link shows, Ford incentives were 3 times that of Toyota in Nov and Dec 2007. To the guy who predicted sales of between 100K and 150K for the Tundra this year, i am willing to bet you that sales will easily be North of 230K in 2008. Like i said in my other post, that 2009 F-150 better be something really special....

[TomServo92]

Some of the comments on this thread are beyond stupid. We even had one clown suggest government regulation to stop Toyota How about the obvious? How about Ford building vehicles people actually want?? The F series will not keep on saving the company as is evidenced by the 13% sales dip this year. The days of Americans buying domestics just to be patriotic are over. If domestics build junk, Americans have no issues flocking to imports as is the current situation. Here is a quote from a truck trend article:

 

"The recent launch of the new Tundra hasn't been without a few hiccups. Several months ago, an early output of camshafts in the 5.7-liter V-8 were failing. Toyota traced down all the affected parts to a specific batch and have since made the corrections to the design. No failures have surfaced since. More recently, there've been some reports of transmission shudder under certain low-speed conditions, which dealers have traced to a torque-converter issue. Toyota says these incidents were isolated and also have been resolved. And, finally, there's been chatter on the Internet concerning tailgate problems, which Toyota is in the process of tracking down. Stories like these spread like wildfire, unfortunately, given the lightning-rod effect this new truck is having with enthusiasts and the speed with which an Internet item can travel."

 

Source: Article

 

The quality issues that you guys seem to go on and on about the Tundra are mainly fixed according to truck trends. On the rear occasion when Toyota slips, they quickly fix whatever is wrong and get back on the right track. Looks like Americans do not care and still put their trust in Toyota. As Ford fans and drivers, i am sure you are well aware of the quality problems with your favorite products. I need not list them. I would love to see Ford do better in 2008 and i can only hope that the people that run it do not think like the die hard fans in this thread. I hope they realize there is a problem that needs addressing. As for the massive Tundra rebates that some talk about, Ford had them too. I saw Ford commercials where up to $5000 off was offered. As this link shows, Ford incentives were 3 times that of Toyota in Nov and Dec 2007. To the guy who predicted sales of between 100K and 150K for the Tundra this year, i am willing to bet you that sales will easily be North of 230K in 2008. Like i said in my other post, that 2009 F-150 better be something really special....

 

So, have they put a whole new frame under it?

 

One more question: In the past, Toyota would have never let issues like this go out the door and then fix them later. Have they tracked down the cause of that situation?

Edited January 6, 2008 by TomServo92

[F250]

Toyota is definately trying to be the truck leader, they said so themselves. Toyota announced at the launch of this new Tundra that it was the most important and expensive new vehicle launch in the history of Toyota Motor Co. So let's look at the results...

 

Toyota's Tundra launch is a complete failure: The all new Texas plant is months behind schedule and hundreds of millions of dollars over budget when it finally begins production. The old Indiana plant begins producing the new Tundra in Dec.06 first but because of Toyota's poor managment the new showcase 5.7L V8 is not scheduled to be ready until Aug.07. Toyota executives announce the new Tundra must have the 5.7L at launch so they push their Alabama engine plant's schedule ahead 7+months, a move that contributed to the instant engine failures the new Tundra experienced. What's worse is the statement Toyota made that they knew they had a problem with weak camshafts on their new engineThat means Toyota sold engines to their customers that they knew were defective when they left their plant.

 

Partial list of Toyota Tundra's failures (in it's first year) in no particular order...

1. Engine failures due to known defective camshafts

2. Tailgate failures due to design defect. This has resulted in hundreds of actual Tundra owners signing petitions for Toyota to redesign the tailgate. Toyota's answer is to stop placing any load on the tailgate and never drive with it open because they tend to fall off!

3. Tundra scores lowest in class safety ratings in spite of having more air bags than the competition. Proof that Toyota's cab structure is the weakest in it's class.

4. Weakest frame in the class. Also see #3. Remember when you hitch your trailer to your Tundra that the hitch is bolted to the weakest, most flexible part of the Tundra's lame frame.

5. Quality so poor it was cited by Consumer Reports as a leading reason they could no longer give Toyota vehicles an automatic recomended rating.

6. Quality so poor Toyota's own executives stated the new Tundra has brought shame to Toyota.

6. Last but not least this all-new Tundra's safety recall for weak driveshafts that break and fall out of the vehicle.

There will be many more to come I'm sure...

 

So the results are in, before the new Tundra Toyota was 5th in the full size truck market...after the all-new Tundra toyota is...still 5th. The only record the Tundra holds is for "highest cash rebates for a full size truck."

[chevys]

Wasnt the previous generation 150 and silvy frames made similar to the yota?

[F250]

Wasnt the previous generation 150 and silvy frames made similar to the yota?

 

The current, modern, been out for 5 years now F-150's frame is still strongest in the class.

Ford already did the work for Toyota all they had to do is copy it like they did Ford's outboard mounted rear shocks.

[TomServo92]

Wasnt the previous generation 150 and silvy frames made similar to the yota?

 

So you're saying that Toyota copied a 10 year old Ford design? That's Moving Forward!

[DCK]

That 57% increase is the result of going from a complete turd to a product that's at least marginally on par with the rest of the market. Let's see how well they do this year.

And Lincoln went from an entire Line-up of pure shit to............oh thats right.............Ford isn;'t capable of putting out a competitive luxury car so they must talk about how "they are going after a different buyer".....................either way the Tundra went from Meaningless to a threat in a year, Lincoln is still the laughing stock of the luxury market.

 

I just don't see how anyone can laugh at the tundra's sales, the recalls yes, but not the sales and definately not think it is a threat, because it is.

[suv_guy_19]

And Lincoln went from an entire Line-up of pure shit to............oh thats right.............Ford isn;'t capable of putting out a competitive luxury car so they must talk about how "they are going after a different buyer".....................either way the Tundra went from Meaningless to a threat in a year, Lincoln is still the laughing stock of the luxury market.

 

I just don't see how anyone can laugh at the tundra's sales, the recalls yes, but not the sales and definately not think it is a threat, because it is.

 

Yeah, so Lincoln, by bringing out the most powerful AWD luxury sedan is doing nothing then????? Lincoln's lineup is improving. Yeah, it was bad, but what does it serve to to point it out over and over and over again?

[TomServo92]

And Lincoln went from an entire Line-up of pure shit to............oh thats right.............Ford isn;'t capable of putting out a competitive luxury car so they must talk about how "they are going after a different buyer".....................either way the Tundra went from Meaningless to a threat in a year, Lincoln is still the laughing stock of the luxury market.

 

I just don't see how anyone can laugh at the tundra's sales, the recalls yes, but not the sales and definately not think it is a threat, because it is.

 

Are you that dense? Didn't I say the Tundra went from a turd to being on par with the rest of industry? How exactly is that laughing at them? The thrust of all my arguments thus far have been that Toyota is making mistakes. I'll say it one more time since you are too dense to get from all the other times I've said it: The design flaws in the Tundra (and the FJ Cruiser) are indications that Toyota is veering from the path that got them where they are in order to go after the sales crown.

 

Oh BTW, constantly harping about Lincoln in this thread doesn't have a thing to do the topic at hand. It just shows that you can't make a point to save your life.

Edited January 6, 2008 by TomServo92

[chevys]

So you're saying that Toyota copied a 10 year old Ford design? That's Moving Forward!

 

 

Nope, thats not what Im saying. I dont think the average buyer knows the difference between the two to be honest. It was good enough for F/Gm for God knows how many years though. How many older F/GM trucks have frame issues? I cant think of any off the top of my head. I know in some rare cases of a couple of trucks that have been abused since day one without any issues.

 

The frame deal is something people can harp on now until the end of time but the average guy either wont know the difference or it wont effect him. The normal half ton buyer never even comes close to using their truck to the full capability.

[TomServo92]

The frame deal is something people can harp on now until the end of time but the average guy either wont know the difference or it wont effect him. The normal half ton buyer never even comes close to using their truck to the full capability.

 

So tell me, why does every light truck manufacturer, except Toyota, use a fully boxed frame if it's overkill?

[F250]

Nope, thats not what Im saying. I dont think the average buyer knows the difference between the two to be honest. It was good enough for F/Gm for God knows how many years though. How many older F/GM trucks have frame issues? I cant think of any off the top of my head. I know in some rare cases of a couple of trucks that have been abused since day one without any issues.

 

The frame deal is something people can harp on now until the end of time but the average guy either wont know the difference or it wont effect him. The normal half ton buyer never even comes close to using their truck to the full capability.

 

By your logic Toyota should have used a solid beam front axle suspenson system and 4-wheel manual DRUM brakes because, you know, it was good enough for Ford and GM for God knows how many years until the mid 1960's.

 

So, now that's settled why don't we discuss the Tundra's poor quality as recognized by both Consumer Reports and Toyota's own executives?

 

Or the weak assed crumpled tailgates that the actual owners of this all-new Tundra are complaining about?

Edited January 6, 2008 by F250

[chevys]

By your logic Toyota should have used a solid beam front axle suspenson system and 4-wheel manual DRUM brakes because, you know, it was good enough for Ford and GM for God knows how many years until the mid 1960's.

 

So, now that's settled why don't we discuss the Tundra's poor quality as recognized by both Consumer Reports and Toyota's own executives?

 

Or the weak assed crumpled tailgates that the actual owners of this all-new Tundra are complaining about?

 

May as well go back to carburetors as well. Thats a nice twist you made there and no thats not my logic but nice try. People react to what they can see and feel and the average buyer doesnt know beans about frame construction. That is my point. When you step on the go pedal the tundra gives you something the 150 cant. They can feel the difference.

 

You will not get an argument out of me that yoto has had some major issues. Let me guess, are you one of those guys that said consumer reports was a farce when they gave Ford a bad rap? Please tell me which side of the fence you are on. We can beat this horse all day long and I will not deny the tundra has been a major disappointment. Like you said, even toyo officials admit it. Given the disaster, they have sold nearly 1/2 as many half tons as Ford. Thats scary to me.

 

Ford has a nice truck but I swear to God if they dont get the diesel and a V8 in it soon that can go at least heads up with the competition they are going to be in deep doo doo. The 5.4 aint gettin it done and its a gas hog on top of that. The 4 speed clunk box needs to be put out to pasture asap too. Ford always seems like they are 2 years behind everybody else.

[rmc523]

May as well go back to carburetors as well. Thats a nice twist you made there and no thats not my logic but nice try. People react to what they can see and feel and the average buyer doesnt know beans about frame construction. That is my point. When you step on the go pedal the tundra gives you something the 150 cant. They can feel the difference.

 

You will not get an argument out of me that yoto has had some major issues. Let me guess, are you one of those guys that said consumer reports was a farce when they gave Ford a bad rap? Please tell me which side of the fence you are on. We can beat this horse all day long and I will not deny the tundra has been a major disappointment. Like you said, even toyo officials admit it. Given the disaster, they have sold nearly 1/2 as many half tons as Ford. Thats scary to me.

 

Ford has a nice truck but I swear to God if they dont get the diesel and a V8 in it soon that can go at least heads up with the competition they are going to be in deep doo doo. The 5.4 aint gettin it done and its a gas hog on top of that. The 4 speed clunk box needs to be put out to pasture asap too. Ford always seems like they are 2 years behind everybody else.

 

2 years behind everybody else? You do have to remember the current truck is only 4 years old now, and the new version comes out soon, that's quick in the truck market. The 4 year old F-150 is still better than the BRAND NEW Tundra and Silverado. IMO, GM just caught up to this decade design-wise with their new trucks, the new F-150 will be out before the new Ram. Also, it's still the most capable half-ton there is. How's that 2 years behind?

 

The 4 speed is gone for 09. 6-speeds will be standard on all models. The 5.4 has been reworked for launch and may have around 325-hp (rumored, not confirmed). Also w/ the new engines coming continually after launch, I think the truck will be fine.

[the_spaniard]

Here is my take on the Tundra: It is a threat. This incarnation represents a capable entry. Not great, but capable. The next gen could be even more so, so yes, it is a threat.

 

I think we can all see that it had a bad launch. I think that we can all see that it has quality issues and a few questionable design issues. And I also think we can all see despite all that, they almost moved 200K of these things in the first, short year. That in itself is very scary.

 

For everyone pointing to the rebates on the hoods to move these things, they are absolutely right. It's not hard to see they are probably losing money on these trucks. Guess what? They can afford to lose money. How long did it take, and how many iterations of the Camry did they go through to hit #1? They posted a profit this year despite the Tundra (and some other vehicles), and still managed to surpass Ford to the number 2 spot. That is also scary.

 

For everyone pointing to the videos of the breakdancing Tundra beds, etc I would guess that few people considering buying this thing would actually care anyway. People who use their trucks for serious work should be concerned. The average person who runs to the grocery store, and rarely tows anything bigger that a 21' boat? They probably don't care. What percentage of people who buy an F150 actually load and use that vehicle to it's limits? IMO, if I was routinely hauling to the upper end of my towing capacity in my F150 (or pushing other limits), I would probably trade it in for a SD anyway.

 

Truck purists will cry foul over these videos, but the average person probably won't care. What they will remember is all of those Tundra commercials during the Superbowl last year, Motor Trend's TOTY award and Toyatas perception of building a quality product.

 

There are a ton of new Tundras here in NorCal, and everytime I see one I can't help thinking "Not a bad looking truck, but oh man all those problems." It's the first year of a new design, every vehicle will have problems. It's why a lot of people wait until the second or third year to buy a new design while they shake out the gremlins. How many of you don't think Toyota will shake out the gremlins? How many of you think Toyota will just stop making them and abandon the market? How many don't think they will spend money to make this truck better? Let's face it, at this moment, this will probably be the worst press Toyota will receive for the Tundra, and they are selling well.

 

When it's time to replace my F150, every major manufacturer will get a fair shake, even Toyota (if they shake out the gremlins). I have a lot of confidence in Ford (when it comes to the F150), but I won't be excluding any manufacturer that is a contender for my hard-earned dollar. I come from a previously Ford-only family, and I never thought Toyota (or Nissan for that matter) would be in that list.

 

For the average joe truck buyer that doesn't haul much, doesn't go off-road, etc the Tundra is a contender.

[F250]

May as well go back to carburetors as well. Thats a nice twist you made there and no thats not my logic but nice try. People react to what they can see and feel and the average buyer doesnt know beans about frame construction. That is my point. When you step on the go pedal the tundra gives you something the 150 cant. They can feel the difference.

 

You will not get an argument out of me that yoto has had some major issues. Let me guess, are you one of those guys that said consumer reports was a farce when they gave Ford a bad rap? Please tell me which side of the fence you are on. We can beat this horse all day long and I will not deny the tundra has been a major disappointment. Like you said, even toyo officials admit it. Given the disaster, they have sold nearly 1/2 as many half tons as Ford. Thats scary to me.

 

Ford has a nice truck but I swear to God if they dont get the diesel and a V8 in it soon that can go at least heads up with the competition they are going to be in deep doo doo. The 5.4 aint gettin it done and its a gas hog on top of that. The 4 speed clunk box needs to be put out to pasture asap too. Ford always seems like they are 2 years behind everybody else.

 

Well the average truck buyer should notice the F-150 beats the Tundra in actual work capability like Ford's superior towing, payload capacity and payload volume. If all you want to do is race then buy a Shelby GT-500 Mustang. However if you need a fast and capable truck then the '08 F-150 Harley Edition's 450HP should take care of the Toyota's 381HP. Then of course there are the Roush, Saleen, etc Ford performance builders.

 

How about this twist:

Let me guess, are you one of those (Toyota) guys that said consumer reports was (the authority) when they gave Ford a bad rap? Please tell me which side of the fence you are on.

For years it was Toyota fans that used the Consumer Reports "stick" to beat on Ford...well now Ford has that stick so we'll take a few swings.

Edited January 6, 2008 by F250

[TomServo92]

For everyone pointing to the videos of the breakdancing Tundra beds, etc I would guess that few people considering buying this thing would actually care anyway. People who use their trucks for serious work should be concerned. The average person who runs to the grocery store, and rarely tows anything bigger that a 21' boat? They probably don't care. What percentage of people who buy an F150 actually load and use that vehicle to it's limits? IMO, if I was routinely hauling to the upper end of my towing capacity in my F150 (or pushing other limits), I would probably trade it in for a SD anyway.

 

Again, I ask the question that nobody has answered: Why has every light truck manufacturer except Toyota gone to a fully boxed frame if isn't that important?

 

Come one, someone tell me why all the other manufacturers are wrong....

Edited January 6, 2008 by TomServo92

[F250]

For the average joe truck buyer that doesn't haul much, doesn't go off-road, etc the Tundra is a contender.

 

Your last sentance is the point.

The vast majority of Tundras are loaded personal luxury trucks. Except for the ones that Toyota dumped on their dealer's parts departments as delivery vehicles I have yet to see a regular cab long bed Tundra at work earning a living being driven by employees that beat the hell out of them because they are company vehicles. But that is exactly where the Ford trucks are every day, and the point is if the Fords are built to take that kind of abuse as work trucks then they will make outstanding, durable personal trucks as well.

[range]

http://www.fordvehicles.com/thetruthabouttrucks/

 

One look at the cost-cutting and short cuts Toyota took with the Tundra's frame pretty much sums up what's so wrong with the Tundra.

 

Its the same cost-cutting and short cuts that are showing up in the Tundra's tailgate.

 

Take a look at the video on the Tundra frame, its an unbelievably poor design, not only is it significantly weaker than the F-150s, but the Tundra's design actually traps road salt and debris in the frame rail.

[chevys]

Well the average truck buyer should notice the F-150 beats the Tundra in actual work capability like Ford's superior towing, payload capacity and payload volume.

 

I dont know what the numbers say. I seem to remember Ford having to increase their towing capacity (on paper) after the Tundra came out. I say hook them all up to 10K lbs and lets see what the verdict is. Anybody that tows that much with a half ton is a few frys short of a happy meal anyway. It means nothing in the real world. I would bet a dollar the Ford would be at the bottom of the pile on acceleration.

[chevys]

Again, I ask the question that nobody has answered: Why has every light truck manufacturer except Toyota gone to a fully boxed frame if isn't that important?

 

Come one, someone tell me why all the other manufacturers are wrong....

 

Thats a dang good question and one I would like to ask the engineers at yota myself. I have no answer. Is it cheaper to make a frame thats not fully boxed??

[TomServo92]

Is it cheaper to make a frame thats not fully boxed??

 

That's a good question as well. I would say yes but I'm not 100% on it. What a boxed frame does give you is a better strength to weight ratio.

[range]

I dont know what the numbers say. I seem to remember Ford having to increase their towing capacity (on paper) after the Tundra came out. I say hook them all up to 10K lbs and lets see what the verdict is. Anybody that tows that much with a half ton is a few frys short of a happy meal anyway. It means nothing in the real world. I would bet a dollar the Ford would be at the bottom of the pile on acceleration.

 

Towing is not all about acceleration, its about stability, braking, cooling, and durability. The Truth About Trucks video gets into all of that.

 

Watch the Truth About Trucks videos and see the comparison in cooling systems between the F-150 and the Tundra. Note how significantly larger the F-Series system is.

 

Also note the transmission cooler on the F-150 vs the Silverado, the Ford is in a totally different league.

 

For braking, note the F-150 comes with vented disc all the way around, with Electronics BrakeForce Distribution - standard. The Silverado has rear drums standard.

 

For stability, note the upper front end structure of the F-150 vs the stucture that is lacking in the Silverado. The F-150 gets wider leaf springs, better mounting position of the rear shocks, better lower a-arm design and on and on.

 

Its not about hooking up a trailier and seeing if a truck will move.

[chevys]

Towing is not all about acceleration, its about stability, braking, cooling, and durability. The Truth About Trucks video gets into all of that.

 

Watch the Truth About Trucks videos and see the comparison in cooling systems between the F-150 and the Tundra. Note how significantly larger the F-Series system is.

 

Also note the transmission cooler on the F-150 vs the Silverado, the Ford is in a totally different league.

 

For braking, note the F-150 comes with vented disc all the way around, with Electronics BrakeForce Distribution - standard. The Silverado has rear drums standard.

 

For stability, note the upper front end structure of the F-150 vs the stucture that is lacking in the Silverado. The F-150 gets wider leaf springs, better mounting position of the rear shocks, better lower a-arm design and on and on.

 

Its not about hooking up a trailier and seeing if a truck will move.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said. The 150 is a engine and a bullet proof 6 speed tranny away from getting back on top of the heap. The tow ratings on paper mean very little to me. Lets see some real world tests and I mean torture the crap out of all of them and lets see whos standing at the end. I know this is a Ford site so I accept a lot of the bias. Im not afraid to see the tundra snap a camshaft or a 150 struggle up a hill at max load. I want the unbiased truth. Heck, the yota might have a tailgate fall off or something. Pray to God the 150 doesnt spit a spark plug out either.

 

I see the tundra bashed on every site nearly and that tells me they are making some noise whether it be good or bad. There here and likely not going away anytime soon. I hope Ford can really step things up and make the next truck a big hit.

 

Now, how many of you are confident enough in Ford to spend your hard earned dollars on a redesign with a new engine be it the diesel or boss series? Not me at least for a year or so to see what shakes out. Im pretty much that way with anyone though so I dont count.