Tundra 2007 Sales numbers??

[rmc523]

Ford-LOL, --- why are you even on this site? You are so Ford-negative and pro-Import then go join their forums. Toyota Tundra is a high volume first year model and the problems with it are too numerous to mention here. If you really truly believe Ford will lose the full size truck sales crown to Toyota in our lifetime then I got a bridge for you....cheap. Sooner or later when enough manufacturing jobs are lost in this country then somewhere somehow a politician with some nads on him will start playing the way all the friggin other countries play and protect their own before giving away everything to others. Our trade policies are a disgrace to the working man and if you think otherwise I hope you don't work in manufacturing.

 

Well look at his login name, do you think he's a legitimate poster?

[jpd80]

Doesn't mean anything when it comes to F-150 vs Tundra sales, Tundra rebates are still in the 6K range and the F-150 is only at $3500. Also lets not forget that that the F-150 is now the oldest fullsized pick up on the market with a refresh due this year. Do you really think they will be able to sustain those sales levels with 6K rebates on them for a length of time? all they are doing is pulling sales and dropping the resale value of their product.

So they are going to fix the flexible flyer frame or the tail gate that gets damaged when it has more then 200lbs on it?

If Toyota sells 200K Tundras, all with $6,000 incentive, that's $1.2 billion.

If Ford sells 650K F Trucks, all with $3,500 incentive, that's $2.275 billion.

 

Toyota has made world wide profit seven years in a row, last year's being $13.6 billion.

They can afford to give back $1.2 billion if it strengthens their foot hold against Ford and GM Trucks.

 

Can Ford rely on the American customer's loyalty to American products?

Edited January 5, 2008 by jpd80

[rmc523]

If Toyota sells 200K Tundras, all with $6,000 incentive, that's $1.2 billion.

If Ford sells 650K F Trucks, all with $3,500 incentive, that's $2.275 billion.

 

Toyota has made world wide profit seven years in a row, last year's being $13.6 billion.

They can afford to give back $1.2 billion if it strengthens their foot hold against Ford and GM Trucks.

 

Can Ford rely on the American customer's loyalty to American products?

 

With trucks, I think they're able to. Does that mean they should solely rely on that? NO, absolutely not, and I don't believe they are or will.

[chevys]

If Toyota sells 200K Tundras, all with $6,000 incentive, that's $1.2 billion.

If Ford sells 650K F Trucks, all with $3,500 incentive, that's $2.275 billion.

 

Toyota has made world wide profit seven years in a row, last year's being $13.6 billion.

They can afford to give back $1.2 billion if it strengthens their foot hold against Ford and GM Trucks.

 

Can Ford rely on the American customer's loyalty to American products?

 

I agree. Incentives mean very little in terms of dollars due to msrp pricing differences and the fact that we dont know the true cost to the manufacturer. Dodge loves to jack the msrp out of site and then comeback with 8K off incentives. It only puts them inline with everybody else.

 

Toyo is not held hostage by the labor unions either. Common sense tells me that their cost is probably less than the big three all things being equal. I see people screaming all over the internet about toyo having to offer big incentives to be competitive. Big deal. The big three started that trend and you know what they say. Live by the sword and die by the sword and toyo has the cash to do it with.

[TomServo92]

Big deal. The big three started that trend and you know what they say. Live by the sword and die by the sword and toyo has the cash to do it with.

 

That's correct. There was a time when Ford was flush with cash and they used it in an attempt to buy market share and look where it got them. Are you familiar with the phrase "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? IMO, Toyota has veered from the course that got them where they are today. They have sacrificed quality on the alter of market share and it WILL come back to bite them.

[Bored of Pisteon]

That's correct. There was a time when Ford was flush with cash and they used it in an attempt to buy market share and look where it got them. Are you familiar with the phrase "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? IMO, Toyota has veered from the course that got them where they are today. They have sacrificed quality on the alter of market share and it WILL come back to bite them.

 

2008 will definitely be Toyota's year... YEAR for most recalls and defects disclosed by any one auto manufacturer EVER!

 

Anyone want to place their bets? "I'M ALL IN!"

[DCK]

Oh yes lets bash toyota for only increasing sales by 57%. This coming from the same people praising the shitastic "New" 08 Escape and Focus for treading water and losing market share with fleet dumping and bargain bin prices. If ford had the mindset of the bandwagoners here they would be out of business.

Edited January 5, 2008 by DCK

[TomServo92]

Oh yes lets bash toyota for only increasing sales by 57%. This coming from the same people praising the shitastic "New" 08 Escape and Focus for treading water and losing market share with fleet dumping and bargain bin prices. If ford had the mindset of the bandwagoners here they would be out of business.

 

To borrow a phrase from all the Lincoln critics "They had nowhere else to go but up". The previous gen Tundra was a joke. The new one is better but very much flawed as the recall record indicates. We'll see if Toyota can continue to increase sales or if it's topped out.

[Bagrah01]

That's correct. There was a time when Ford was flush with cash and they used it in an attempt to buy market share and look where it got them. Are you familiar with the phrase "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? IMO, Toyota has veered from the course that got them where they are today. They have sacrificed quality on the alter of market share and it WILL come back to bite them.

 

Jeez. Toyota has deep pockets because there core business, automobiles remain profitable. They aren't trying to be the truck sales leader, if it happens great, but the Tundra is not going to be their undoing. Yes they have had their share of quality gaffs as of late, but they also have had decades of stellar build quality and reliability. You can wish really really hard but they're not going to disappear because of a few recent missteps. All the more reason for Ford to build quality vehicles that people really want i.e. 1990-1994 Explorer, 1996 Expedition, 1997 Navigator, 1986 Taurus, Ford GT, etc. viable alternatives to competive products of the time that actually targeted the benchmark and went above and beyond or created an entirely new segment. Like Nissan did with the Altima, Lexus did with RX, and Toyota did with the Prius. I think the Flex is the first vehicle in with Ford executive have had that mindset in quite sometime.

[TomServo92]

Jeez. Toyota has deep pockets because there core business, automobiles remain profitable. They aren't trying to be the truck sales leader, if it happens great, but the Tundra is not going to be their undoing. Yes they have had their share of quality gaffs as of late, but they also have had decades of stellar build quality and reliability. You can wish really really hard but they're not going to disappear because of a few recent missteps. All the more reason for Ford to build quality vehicles that people really want i.e. 1990-1994 Explorer, 1996 Expedition, 1997 Navigator, 1986 Taurus, Ford GT, etc. viable alternatives to competive products of the time that actually targeted the benchmark and went above and beyond or created an entirely new segment. Like Nissan did with the Altima, Lexus did with RX, and Toyota did with the Prius. I think the Flex is the first vehicle in with Ford executive have had that mindset in quite sometime.

 

I wasn't talking about just trucks. Toyota wants to eclipse GM so bad they can taste it. I never said they'd disapear nor do I think they're incapable of being #1. I believe they're going about it the wrong way just as Ford did in the 90s. You too can wish all you want that it's not so but the Tundra is a very clear sign that Toyota is making mistakes that will hurt them (so is the FJ Cruiser). Will they "go away" as you so naively put it? No but if they stumble (which I believe they're doing), it leaves an opening for their competitors to exploit.

Edited January 5, 2008 by TomServo92

[FordFanForEver]

My dad used to own a 2001 toyota tundra, it was not a real work horse. He evenually bought a 2004 F-150 5.4 and loves it to death. Now he wants the 4.4 Diesel that ford is going to put in the F-150.

[Bagrah01]

I wasn't talking about just trucks. Toyota wants to eclipse GM so bad they can taste it. I never said they'd disapear nor do I think they're incapable of being #1. I believe they're going about it the wrong way just as Ford did in the 90s. You too can wish all you want that it's not so but the Tundra is a very clear sign that Toyota is making mistakes that will hurt them (so is the FJ Cruiser). Will they "go away" as you so naively put it? No but if they stumble (which I believe they're doing), it leaves an opening for their competitors to exploit.

 

Only if competitors have products to compete. Fusion, Explorer, Focus, Escape, Taurus X, All Lincolns, All Mercuries, ain't cuttin it and currently "hot" products are looking old compared to newer competition. BTW Exactly how many FJ competitors are there and BTW didn't I acknowledge Toyota's mistakes in my previous post?

[TomServo92]

Only if competitors have products to compete. Fusion, Explorer, Focus, Escape, Taurus X, All Lincolns, All Mercuries, ain't cuttin it and currently "hot" products are looking old compared to newer competition. BTW Exactly how many FJ competitors are there and BTW didn't I acknowledge Toyota's mistakes in my previous post?

 

 

Of course they need to have competitive products. If Ford sits still, they'll blow the opportunity. I really don't think we've seen ANY products yet that are the result of Mulally's overhaul of Ford's corporate culture (and that includes the Flex).

 

BTW, it isn't about a competitor the FJ Cruiser. I was referring to the quality issues that are haunting it like the Tundra. It's another sign that Toyota is faltering.

[guesswhoscomingtodinner]

Ford-LOL, --- why are you even on this site? You are so Ford-negative and pro-Import then go join their forums. Toyota Tundra is a high volume first year model and the problems with it are too numerous to mention here. If you really truly believe Ford will lose the full size truck sales crown to Toyota in our lifetime then I got a bridge for you....cheap. Sooner or later when enough manufacturing jobs are lost in this country then somewhere somehow a politician with some nads on him will start playing the way all the friggin other countries play and protect their own before giving away everything to others. Our trade policies are a disgrace to the working man and if you think otherwise I hope you don't work in manufacturing.

 

 

First, you want to government to protect Ford?

Do you want to government to raise the protection tariff higher than the current 25% on trucks?

And your ramblings about manufacturing jobs:

You do know where Tundras are built don't you?

You do know the Tundra made the top 10 for domestic content vehicles don't you?

[Bagrah01]

 

Of course they need to have competitive products. If Ford sits still, they'll blow the opportunity. I really don't think we've seen ANY products yet that are the result of Mulally's overhaul of Ford's corporate culture (and that includes the Flex).

 

BTW, it isn't about a competitor the FJ Cruiser. I was referring to the quality issues that are haunting it like the Tundra. It's another sign that Toyota is faltering.

 

Yes I was quite aware of the fact you were using the FJ only as an example. My point missteps by Toyota aren't as disbilitating as missteps by Ford, especially in a hostile market. :shades: What if the F-series was in a similar situation as the Tundra? So again you can harp on the Tundra all you want its not going to be Toyota's undoing.

[TomServo92]

Yes I was quite aware of the fact you were using the FJ only as an example. My point missteps by Toyota aren't as disbilitating as missteps by Ford, especially in a hostile market. :shades: What if the F-series was in a similar situation as the Tundra? So again you can harp on the Tundra all you want its not going to be Toyota's undoing.

 

You aren't grasping this are you? It isn't about the Tundra specifically. It's about indications that Toyota is making mistakes in their quest to be #1.

[guesswhoscomingtodinner]

You aren't grasping this are you? It isn't about the Tundra specifically. It's about indications that Toyota is making mistakes in their quest to be #1.

 

 

Looks like Toyota achieved their goal. They are #1 in the world now.

[Bagrah01]

You aren't grasping this are you? It isn't about the Tundra specifically. It's about indications that Toyota is making mistakes in their quest to be #1.

 

Grasping? Just answer the question. The fact that Toyota was still able to sell that many vehicles even with quality gaffs and shrinking market share, put simply is disturbing. We all acknowledge Toyota is making mistakes, but they're also hitting homeruns and have boatloads of momentum. What is Ford doing to stop this, shrinking and producing stop gate products? Frankly its not good enough to get me or many other buyers back to their core brand vehicles. If Toyota, Honda, BMW, Subaru, Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai, etc. can build "cars" people want in the US, why can't Ford?

[TomServo92]

Grasping? Just answer the question. The fact that Toyota was still able to sell that many vehicles even with quality gaffs and shrinking market share, put simply is disturbing. We all acknowledge Toyota is making mistakes, but they're also hitting homeruns and have boatloads of momentum. What is Ford doing to stop this, shrinking and producing stop gate products? Frankly its not good enough to get me or many other buyers back to their core brand vehicles. If Toyota, Honda, BMW, Subaru, Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai, etc. can build "cars" people want in the US, why can't Ford?

 

Yes, it is scary but can it continue? That "I'll buy it just because it says Toyota on it" buyer's mentality, which Toyota spent YEARS to build, is exactly what they're in danger of losing if they don't refocus.

 

As to your question, I've already answered several posts ago. I case you have trouble finding it, see the highlight below.

 

Of course they need to have competitive products. If Ford sits still, they'll blow the opportunity. I really don't think we've seen ANY products yet that are the result of Mulally's overhaul of Ford's corporate culture (and that includes the Flex).

 

BTW, it isn't about a competitor the FJ Cruiser. I was referring to the quality issues that are haunting it like the Tundra. It's another sign that Toyota is faltering.

[DCK]

To borrow a phrase from all the Lincoln critics "They had nowhere else to go but up". The previous gen Tundra was a joke. The new one is better but very much flawed as the recall record indicates. We'll see if Toyota can continue to increase sales or if it's topped out.

And up 57% is more than any lincoln did. I agree it is flawed but it is a serious threat, the Truck market tanked this year and people call the tundra a failure for selling 4k less than their goal...................How many sales did the F-150 lose this year? It is no question if the market was good the Tundra would have made the 200k goal, besides it wasn't even on the market for the full year and had to ramp up.

[TomServo92]

And up 57% is more than any lincoln did. I agree it is flawed but it is a serious threat, the Truck market tanked this year and people call the tundra a failure for selling 4k less than their goal...................How many sales did the F-150 lose this year? It is no question if the market was good the Tundra would have made the 200k goal, besides it wasn't even on the market for the full year and had to ramp up.

 

That 57% increase is the result of going from a complete turd to a product that's at least marginally on par with the rest of the market. Let's see how well they do this year.

Edited January 6, 2008 by TomServo92

[chevys]

That 57% increase is the result of going from a complete turd to a product that's at least marginally on par with the rest of the market. Let's see how well they do this year.

 

Yeah, and that so called turd was a pretty good product but just didnt meet what buyers wanted. So now we have a poor quality product (according to some) that sold twice as good. If they get the bugs worked out and get the quality better the big three will have their hands full.

[FordFanForEver]

For the 2008 model year, i think the tundra will not sell 200,000 units. my guess will be between 100,000 - 150,000 because toyota will finally understand that giving away those trucks at nearly $10,000 is not making a profit and loosing money, but then again, they are over priced.

[TomServo92]

Yeah, and that so called turd was a pretty good product but just didnt meet what buyers wanted.

 

In the truck market, that makes it a turd.

 

So now we have a poor quality product (according to some) that sold twice as good.

 

Have you seen the pics of the buckling tailgates and the video of the "limp noodle" frame bouncing all over the place? Those aren't just quality problems. They're design problems which is a far more serious issue and the reason I think Toyota is getting sloppy.

[chevys]

In the truck market, that makes it a turd.

Have you seen the pics of the buckling tailgates and the video of the "limp noodle" frame bouncing all over the place? Those aren't just quality problems. They're design problems which is a far more serious issue and the reason I think Toyota is getting sloppy.

 

Yep, Ive seen it all and Im sure a lot of others have too. Im not disputing that they have issues. What is scary is that people are buying them. Price being a factor or not nobody thought they would sell 200K units. Now that they have their foot in the door they are not just going to lay over and play dead.

 

What is so funny to me is that the hard core GM/Ford people say that acceleration is not important in a truck. Its so ironic that the Tundra will just blow the doors off what is out there right now but back in the day those same people liked to beat up on that turd (older tundras) for not having power, size, ect................ Talk about hypocrites.

 

I have to agree that toyo has gotten sloppy of late. It took years for it to catch up with Ford and Gm but it finally did. I think this is one lesson that toyo has learned and they know they have to fix it or else. Time will tell.......