Tundra 2007 Sales numbers??

[F250]

http://www.fordvehicles.com/thetruthabouttrucks/

 

One look at the cost-cutting and short cuts Toyota took with the Tundra's frame pretty much sums up what's so wrong with the Tundra.

 

Its the same cost-cutting and short cuts that are showing up in the Tundra's tailgate.

 

Take a look at the video on the Tundra frame, its an unbelievably poor design, not only is it significantly weaker than the F-150s, but the Tundra's design actually traps road salt and debris in the frame rail.

 

Exactly!

Yet Toyota had the balls to price the Tundra higher than every other truck in the class!

That is before they started offering the highest rebates when they failed to meet their own sales objectives.

[the_spaniard]

Your last sentance is the point.

The vast majority of Tundras are loaded personal luxury trucks. Except for the ones that Toyota dumped on their dealer's parts departments as delivery vehicles I have yet to see a regular cab long bed Tundra at work earning a living being driven by employees that beat the hell out of them because they are company vehicles. But that is exactly where the Ford trucks are every day, and the point is if the Fords are built to take that kind of abuse as work trucks then they will make outstanding, durable personal trucks as well.

 

I do agree with that. A truck proven on the jobsite should be that much more dependable for light everyday applications. I'm certainly not questioning the F150's capabilities as a truck. Shy of the power-train (which should be remedied with the six-speed auto), I don't have many complaints about my F150. I just consider this generation Tundra a serious competitor when they get the kinks out of the system.

 

The buying public on the other hand (particularly the personal luxury buyers you mention) may not care if the F150 has a proven, professional reputation. Again, for the average joe, they believe anything with a Toyota badge HAS to be proven quality. I mean, after all, it did get TOTY right? Think of how many Toyo salesman use that in their pitch.

[suv_guy_19]

The buying public on the other hand (particularly the personal luxury buyers you mention) may not care if the F150 has a proven, professional reputation. Again, for the average joe, they believe anything with a Toyota badge HAS to be proven quality. I mean, after all, it did get TOTY right? Think of how many Toyo salesman use that in their pitch.

 

I keep hearing this on a dealer advertisement here. More millionaires own F150s than any other truck.

[TomServo92]

I mean, after all, it did get TOTY right?

 

So did the F-150 in 2004 and it's still a better truck 4 years later.

[the_spaniard]

Again, I ask the question that nobody has answered: Why has every light truck manufacturer except Toyota gone to a fully boxed frame if isn't that important?

 

Come one, someone tell me why all the other manufacturers are wrong....

 

Again, I'm not saying it isn't a mistake. I have no idea why they didn't go to a fully boxed frame. At the same time, has that decision significantly impacted Tundra sales?

 

What I am saying is that I don't think the average joe truck buyer who doesn't use his/her vehicle for anything other than going to Blockbuster and Safeway doesn't care if the truck rides on a fully boxed frame. IMO there are more people out there that don't care than do care. Honestly, what percentage of Tundra drivers are really going to be pushing those trucks to the limits? Does anyone have any numbers on how many F150 drivers use their trucks like a real truck?

 

Honestly, how many 4WD vehicles actually make it off-road? 9%? How many half-tons actually see real-work? I'm not asking for personal experiences from people on an enthusiast site, but hard numbers? I'd guess it's more than 9% but isn't as high as 30%. Perception is everything. Again, for the average person, it doesn't have to be as strong as what's on the construction site. It just has to look like it does, and have that perceived reliability of a Toyota.

[TomServo92]

At the same time, has that decision significantly impacted Tundra sales?

 

Who knows, maybe it has. Maybe 200K is about where they'd be with a truck that is marginally competitive. If they had really gone all out and one-upped everyone else, they might have sold even more. As it is, I don't see this iteration of the Tundra selling much higher in 2008.

[Bagrah01]

Who knows, maybe it has. Maybe 200K is about where they'd be with a truck that is marginally competitive. If they had really gone all out and one-upped everyone else, they might have sold even more. As it is, I don't see this iteration of the Tundra selling much higher in 2008.

 

 

Please, please, please, remember this statement when people talk about the Fusion, Focus, Edge, Taurus, All Lincolns, All Mercuries. :shades:

[TomServo92]

Please, please, please, remember this statement when people talk about the Fusion, Focus, Edge, Taurus, All Lincolns, All Mercuries. :shades:

 

Sure, OK. If it makes you feel better or somthing. IMO, ALL of Ford's lineup could stand some improvement.

[suv_guy_19]

Sure, OK. If it makes you feel better or somthing. IMO, ALL of Ford's lineup could stand some improvement.

 

IMO, almost everyones (if not everyones) lineup could use improvement.

[F250]

Please, please, please, remember this statement when people talk about the Fusion, Focus, Edge, Taurus, All Lincolns, All Mercuries. :shades:

 

Please, please, please, remember this topic is about the Toyota Tundra's latest failure.

It's failure to meet Toyota's own consertive sales goals even with the highest cash rebates in it's class.

Like I said the old Tundra was 5th in this class and this new one is still 5th in it's class.

Edited January 7, 2008 by F250

[Bagrah01]

Towing is not all about acceleration, its about stability, braking, cooling, and durability. The Truth About Trucks video gets into all of that.

 

Watch the Truth About Trucks videos and see the comparison in cooling systems between the F-150 and the Tundra. Note how significantly larger the F-Series system is.

 

Also note the transmission cooler on the F-150 vs the Silverado, the Ford is in a totally different league.

 

For braking, note the F-150 comes with vented disc all the way around, with Electronics BrakeForce Distribution - standard. The Silverado has rear drums standard.

 

For stability, note the upper front end structure of the F-150 vs the stucture that is lacking in the Silverado. The F-150 gets wider leaf springs, better mounting position of the rear shocks, better lower a-arm design and on and on.

 

Its not about hooking up a trailier and seeing if a truck will move.

 

At the end of the day, your last sentence is all most buyers care about. Everthing else is a bit esoteric. Toyota dumps it down into real world results everyone, buyers included, can see. The F-series may be the work horse of the bunch, unfortunately only real truck buyers and automobile enthusiast know this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uH_qnCCBY0...feature=related

[Bagrah01]

Please, please, please, remember this topic is about the Toyota Tundra's latest failure.

It's faiure to meet Toyota's own consertive sales goals even with the highest cash rebates in it's class.

Like I said the old Tundra was 5th in this class and this new one is too.

 

Hit a nerve I see.

[TomServo92]

At the end of the day, your last sentence is all most buyers care about. Everthing else is a bit esoteric. Toyota dumps it down into real world results everyone, buyers included, can see. The F-series may be the work horse of the bunch, unfortunately only real truck buyers and automobile enthusiast know this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uH_qnCCBY0...feature=related

 

I work in a very large industrial facility and we have a large fleet of work trucks. That fleet is roughly split between evenly between Ford and Chevy. They beat the living HELL out of those trucks in the field. Guess what? 99% of the trucks in the employee parking lot are....you guessed it: Ford and Chevy. Most of those employee trucks will never see the type of abuse the work trucks get. But people buy what they know is good, even if they don't intend to use to its full potential. THAT my friend is real world results that truck buyers can see and I've no doubt they pass it along to their friends and families.

[chevys]

I work in a very large industrial facility and we have a large fleet of work trucks. That fleet is roughly split between evenly between Ford and Chevy. They beat the living HELL out of those trucks in the field. Guess what? 99% of the trucks in the employee parking lot are....you guessed it: Ford and Chevy. Most of those employee trucks will never see the type of abuse the work trucks get. But people buy what they know is good, even if they don't intend to use to its full potential. THAT my friend is real world results that truck buyers can see and I've no doubt they pass it along to their friends and families.

 

Ahh, that goes both ways. The guy that bought a toyota xzy back in the early 80's because he got tired of the trash that GM and FMC was selling happened to have excellent luck with his new toyo. They swore they would never own any jap junk but they got tired of trips to the repair shop. Maybe now they want or need a new pickup. Most of them will flock to the yota dealer because they have had good luck that company in the past.

Again, maybe they dont know about the frame and tailgate ect................... Perceived quality can take years and years to change.

 

This is a true story about someone I know and I counted 7 new toyos they have bought and never had the first issue with any of them. These were loyal gm/ford buyers thier entire lives. Never again will they darken the door of a gm/ford dealership and price is not an issue to them. Im not that closed minded but I understand how it could happen.

[TomServo92]

Ahh, that goes both ways.

 

Sure it does. I also believe there are those that tried to haul a load in their previous gen Tundra and found it lacking and decided to trade it for a REAL truck.

[F250]

Hit a nerve I see.

 

Typical response from a person that just got bitch slapped.

[F250]

Amazing, all of these Toyota apologist trying to defend the Tundra. "No matter how many problems it has it's still a major threat" what a load of crap.

 

For those that say Toyota will work out all of this Tundra's weaknesses, starting from the frame up. I'll remind you this is Toyota's third attempt at breaking into the full size American truck market so Toyota has already been working on their weakness for 15 years. Remember the laughable T-100 (original name there) then the not-quite-a-big-truck first generation Tundra? Toyota made the same claim when they launched each of those failures. And now after years of R&D and having the best trucks in the world to take apart and copy Japanese style this is the best they could do?! How could Toyota have blown this Tundra when they said this was the most important and expensive launch in Toyota's history?! All of the might of the worlds richest car company produced this failure. If any American company would have brought a failure like this to market they would have been eaten alive.

 

For those that point to Tundra's acceleration (it's only advantage) Toyota compromised the structure of both the critical frame and cab to lighten the vehicle which improved acceleration and, incidentally made it much cheaper to build. Wrap it all up in a Jap-ugly copy of Dodge styling and you have the truck that was supposed to change it all.

[Bagrah01]

Amazing, all of these Toyota apologist trying to defend the Tundra. "No matter how many problems it has it's still a major threat" what a load of crap.

 

For those that say Toyota will work out all of this Tundra's weaknesses, starting from the frame up. I'll remind you this is Toyota's third attempt at breaking into the full size American truck market so Toyota has already been working on their weakness for 15 years. Remember the laughable T-100 (original name there) then the not-quite-a-big-truck first generation Tundra? Toyota made the same claim when they launched each of those failures. And now after years of R&D and having the best trucks in the world to take apart and copy Japanese style this is the best they could do?! How could Toyota have blown this Tundra when they said this was the most important and expensive launch in Toyota's history?! All of the might of the worlds richest car company produced this failure. If any American company would have brought a failure like this to market they would have been eaten alive.

 

For those that point to Tundra's acceleration (it's only advantage) Toyota compromised the structure of both the critical frame and cab to lighten the vehicle which improved acceleration and, incidentally made it much cheaper to build. Wrap it all up in a Jap-ugly copy of Dodge styling and you have the truck that was supposed to change it all.

 

Full of venom, dude we aren't Toyota apologist, we all acknowlege Toyota has performed to their usual Toyota standard, but it had to happen at some point in time. Nobody is perfect. Why can't you acknowledge Toyota, gaining market share, at any cost (again because they can afford to do it) is a threat to a very crucial segment for a cash strapped Ford that needs every F-series sale it can smuster. Furthermore big HP and accerlation brings buyers to your showrun, especially buyers you didn't have before. You bought the best truck, maybe the slowest, but arguably the best. BTW it must really stick in your crawl that you line of logic follows could be applied to the majority of FoMoCo core brands? :reading:

[suv_guy_19]

Full of venom, dude we aren't Toyota apologist, we all acknowlege Toyota has performed to their usual Toyota standard, but it had to happen at some point in time. Nobody is perfect. Why can't you acknowledge Toyota, gaining market share, at any cost (again because they can afford to do it) is a threat to a very crucial segment for a cash strapped Ford that needs every F-series sale it can smuster. Furthermore big HP and accerlation brings buyers to your showrun, especially buyers you didn't have before. You bought the best truck, maybe the slowest, but arguably the best. BTW it must really stick in your crawl that you line of logic follows could be applied to the majority of FoMoCo core brands? :reading:

 

 

It could also be said then, that the Fusion is a threat to the Camry....

[Ford??-LOL!]

Here is my take on the Tundra: It is a threat. This incarnation represents a capable entry. Not great, but capable. The next gen could be even more so, so yes, it is a threat.

 

I think we can all see that it had a bad launch. I think that we can all see that it has quality issues and a few questionable design issues. And I also think we can all see despite all that, they almost moved 200K of these things in the first, short year. That in itself is very scary.

 

For everyone pointing to the rebates on the hoods to move these things, they are absolutely right. It's not hard to see they are probably losing money on these trucks. Guess what? They can afford to lose money. How long did it take, and how many iterations of the Camry did they go through to hit #1? They posted a profit this year despite the Tundra (and some other vehicles), and still managed to surpass Ford to the number 2 spot. That is also scary.

 

For everyone pointing to the videos of the breakdancing Tundra beds, etc I would guess that few people considering buying this thing would actually care anyway. People who use their trucks for serious work should be concerned. The average person who runs to the grocery store, and rarely tows anything bigger that a 21' boat? They probably don't care. What percentage of people who buy an F150 actually load and use that vehicle to it's limits? IMO, if I was routinely hauling to the upper end of my towing capacity in my F150 (or pushing other limits), I would probably trade it in for a SD anyway.

 

Truck purists will cry foul over these videos, but the average person probably won't care. What they will remember is all of those Tundra commercials during the Superbowl last year, Motor Trend's TOTY award and Toyatas perception of building a quality product.

 

There are a ton of new Tundras here in NorCal, and everytime I see one I can't help thinking "Not a bad looking truck, but oh man all those problems." It's the first year of a new design, every vehicle will have problems. It's why a lot of people wait until the second or third year to buy a new design while they shake out the gremlins. How many of you don't think Toyota will shake out the gremlins? How many of you think Toyota will just stop making them and abandon the market? How many don't think they will spend money to make this truck better? Let's face it, at this moment, this will probably be the worst press Toyota will receive for the Tundra, and they are selling well.

 

When it's time to replace my F150, every major manufacturer will get a fair shake, even Toyota (if they shake out the gremlins). I have a lot of confidence in Ford (when it comes to the F150), but I won't be excluding any manufacturer that is a contender for my hard-earned dollar. I come from a previously Ford-only family, and I never thought Toyota (or Nissan for that matter) would be in that list.

 

For the average joe truck buyer that doesn't haul much, doesn't go off-road, etc the Tundra is a contender.

 

 

Spaniard, you hit some good points in that post. I am sure that in meeting rooms in Detroit, Ford, GM and Chrysler execs are in panic mode. They may put a brave face on it and spew garbage like some on this thread but they know the damage the Tundra has done and will continue to do to them. The Tundra already outsold the GMC Sierra 1500 in 2007. Below is the breakdown:

 

GMC Sierra

208,243 -1.2% YTD

Dec 2007: 19,782

Dec 2006: 17,541

 

Toyota Tundra

196,555 +57.4% YTD

Dec 2007: 19,219

Dec 2006: 12,468

 

Roughly 66% of Sierras sold are the half-ton model (Source ). All Tundras are half-ton. That means that about 138000 Sierra half tons were sold last year. The Tundra beat it by about 50000 trucks. Next up is Dodge. Below are its numbers:

 

Dodge Ram

358,295 -2.0% YTD

Dec 2007: 32,118

Dec 2006: 32,875

 

Using the same 66% breakdown, the RAM 1500 sold about 237000 units. The Tundra will no doubt eat the dodge for lunch in 2008. Now here are the figures for the current sales champion.

 

Ford F-Series

690,589 -13.2% YTD

Dec 2007: 55,069

Dec 2006: 70,580

 

Someone earlier in this thread guessed that the F-150 accounted for 60% of sales. That means that last year, the F-150 sold about 415000 units. Only a retard will look at these numbers and NOT deem the Tundra a threat!! Its okay for people on this forum who are nothing but dumb consumers to be stupid. However, for Ford's sake, i hope no one that thinks like these guys works at the upper level at Ford! Also, remember that it cost Toyota a lot less to make a Tundra than it cost Ford to make an F-150. They don't have to deal with all these union crap with sky rocking health care costs adding thousands to the price of a vehicle. They can afford to increase the rebates and still make a profit while Ford keeps on losing money by the truck load. I am actually willing to make a bold prediction. In 2008, Toyota will move upwards of 250000 Tundras. Ford will sell less than 400K F-150s in 2008. Remember, the all new 2009 F-150 will not be in showrooms until Sept 2009. The current model is a joke in terms of safety and Toyota winning the safest truck award ( Source )as well as Motor trend's TOTY award are what the average consumer cares about. This is what they see in commercials rolled out by Toyota as well as the local and national news (Yes, i saw these things mentioned in local AND national news broadcasts). The vast majority of people do not give a rat's ass about boxed frames that some clown in this thread keeps on mentioning every 5 secs :rolleyes:

[GreyPony]

This is a true story about someone I know and I counted 7 new toyos they have bought and never had the first issue with any of them. These were loyal gm/ford buyers thier entire lives. Never again will they darken the door of a gm/ford dealership and price is not an issue to them. Im not that closed minded but I understand how it could happen.

 

 

The pendulum can go the other way just as fast. After being burned, they may say, no more Japanese trucks, they don't know how to build them.

[Bagrah01]

It could also be said then, that the Fusion is a threat to the Camry....

 

Yes and no. There are many many players in this segment and the Fusion isn't offering anything the Camry doesn't have.

[suv_guy_19]

Yes and no. There are many many players in this segment and the Fusion isn't offering anything the Camry doesn't have.

 

 

What was that? Then I guess the Tundra is a yes and no too. There are 4 other players and it really offers nothing new. Dodge was already powerful and Ford beats it in almost every other way. Talk about a double standard....

[F250]

BLA...BLA...BLA

 

Twist numbers all you like but the bottom line is...

1. Ford F-Series

2. Chevy

3. Dodge

4. GMC

5. Toyota Tundra

Still, just like last year, and the year before that, and the year before that...

 

And the F-150 is 5 years old now.

The new F-150 is just months away.

The loyal American truck buyers will be at Ford dealers checking out the latest of the greatest!

 

But sales facts aside, the true problem with the Tundra is it's inferiority to the American competition.

What exactly do you think the Tundra offers that makes it superior?

Lets start with Quality. Everyone, not just me, admits Ford and GM build a superior quality truck. Hell even Toyota's own executive admitted it publicly.

Durability. Well look at the backbone of the trucks, their frames. Toyota thought they could cut corners and hide it where no one would look. What's that flopping around in the mirror? Oh that's the Tundra's bed. Speaking of the bed, don't sit on the tailgate!!

Driveline. Shuddering transmissions aside Toyota just announced Tundra's first safety recall due to weak drive shafts that break and fall out of the truck.

Engine. If you order the 5.7L and if you can keep the camshafts from snaping it makes 381 horsepower at the expense of low RPM torque. That's very good high RPM horsepower...but Ford offers 450 HP in the Harley Edition F-150. And dirty little Toyota does not offer Flex-fuel E-85 capable engines like Ford does. You could always get the 4.7L Tundra V8 complete with a cheap rubber band timing belt.

Styling. The F-150 is beautiful and the Tundra looks like a Jap-ugly modern art masterpiece.

 

Like I said it's not about how many of these ugly trucks Toyota can sell it's the fact the damn things are inferior.

[guesswhoscomingtodinner]

Twist numbers all you like but the bottom line is......... the Tundra looks like a.... modern art masterpiece.

 

 

Finally, you said something I can agree with.