What's good for Toyota is good for Japan

[Joe771476]

There was the old saying back in the 50's/60's, "What's good for GM is good for America." Remember? What it meant was what was good for the auto industry was good for all the parts suppliers, tire makers, steel suppliers etc. in America, so it was good for our economy. Of course back then GM had 60 percent of the market and all the components were made here in the US. But today is a sad day, a day when Toyota has edged out Ford for the Number 2 spot in the US. It's time for real Americans to fight back! You see as the topic title implies, when someone buys a Japanese brand, most of the profit goes to Japan. The biggest purchasers of bonds that our govt. sells to fund our national debt are India, China and yes, Japan. Japan is using money they receive from Toyota et al to buy these bonds. The percentage of foreign ownership of our debt is increasing every day! Search the internet if you don't believe it. When they call in the markers someday, we, or most likely our kids/grandkids will owe 10, 20, $50,000 or more per head! Will we/they pay it? Hell no! We won't be able to or want to! Some kind of chaos will result, be it civil or maybe world war. Is this what we want to leave our heirs? And don't forget now, we can't build an entire war machine ('copter, plane, tank, sub, etc.) with American made parts! Most of the parts are made in Asia (and Europe). So if they cut off our parts supply chain, we're cooked! Some people feel that the next world war will be China, India and Japan fighting over how to slice up the United States. But I digress. The American car companies have caught up to and in some categories surpassed the Japanese in quality. Toyota has recalled over 2 milllion vehicles in the last few years! We must start buying American branded or brands owned by American companies NOW! We've already handed over Hawaii real estate, our movie studios and libraries, and our electronics industry to the Japanese. World War II was a battle. The Japanese are winning the war! After all, why do you fight wars? It's usually for economic gain, isn't it? Well they own most of our economy now! Do we really want to hand over the auto industry too? But before you ask John Q. Public to buy American, we have to start in-house: Every car/truck in the Ford and GM employee parking lots must be Ford or GM! No Toyotas, no Nissans, no BMWs......just Fords, Chevies, Lincolns, Volvos etc.! And don't worry about the American workers losing their jobs in the Japanese transplants in the Sun Belt! Ford and GM will gladly move into those factories! Anyone who wants to pick apart my rant is welcome to do so! But that's my story and I'm st-st-stickin' to it! Now it's up to you to tell your friends, co-workers, neighbors and relatives!

[Noah Harbinger]

You can't "call in" federal securities. They are paid according to whatever schedule is on the bond, and we will live up to that obligation. The worst they could do is try to sell them at a steep discount, choking off the government from deficit spending.

 

We made the rules, Japan is playing by them. Remember their disadvantages, too: All their resources - oil, steel - must be imported. Their workers have suffered a lot from outsourcing, too - they're much closer to cheaper labor markets. I bet what you say about being unable to manufacture war machines without imported materials is just as true for them. Besides, they make such great cartoons!

 

India has never seemed particularly belligerent, except about Kashmir.

 

China will probably be the next world superpower, but they'll be dealing with their vast uneducated rural population for decades before they can really start to expand their muscle. I just hope the free flow of information on the Internet will help topple their fascist-in-communist-clothing government.

[FordBuyer]

The next President may have to make the decision if it's in America's best interest to save the Domestic industry or let it go and see what the Japanese do to us. It seems to me we will lose a lot of our economic independance if we let the Domstic Indsustry go down in flames. I realize we could always Nationalize ALL Japanese and German plants in the U.S. if we declared war, but it sure would be different that's for sure. I guess the next President will have to decide if U.S. based manufacturing is important to America and it's future as a Democracy. It doesn't seem to matter to most Americans, but maybe it will matter to next President. The Japanese companies make an extra 10% profit or more just from currency manipulation and much more because their home market is protected. It is still unfair to Domestics in many ways.

[RaZor]

The church of global free trade, which rules American politics with infallible pretensions, may have finally met its Martin Luther. An unlikely dissenter has come forward with a revised understanding of globalization that argues for thorough reformation. This man knows the global trading system from the inside because he is a respected veteran of multinational business. His ideas contain an explosive message: that what established authorities teach Americans about global trade is simply wrong--disastrously wrong for the United States.

 

Martin Luther was a rebellious priest challenging the dictates of a corrupt church hierarchy. Ralph Gomory, on the other hand, is a gentle-spoken technologist, trained as a mathematician and largely apolitical. He does not set out to overthrow the establishment but to correct its deeper fallacies. For many years Gomory was a senior vice president at IBM. He helped manage IBM's expanding global presence as jobs and high-tech production were being dispersed around the world.

 

The experience still haunts him. He decided, in retirement, that he would dig deeper into the contradictions. Now president of the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, he knew something was missing in the "pure trade theory" taught by economists. If free trade is a win-win proposition, Gomory asked himself, then why did America keep losing?

 

. . . The implication is this: If nothing changes in how globalization currently works, Americans will be increasingly exposed to downward pressure on incomes and living standards. "Yes," says Gomory. "There are many ways to look at it, all of which reach the same conclusion."

 

Find out what he says that we better do, or else LINK

 

This year is a voting year. We will have the opportunity to tell our candidates (politicians) what we want to happen in (or to) our country, traditional leanings may have to give way to smarter decisions for some.

 

OF course, we can just stick with the status quo

[jpd80]

Japan is not the problem.

Americans love the free market until a bigger and better capitolist nation comes along.

China is the lion set loose upon the world by the WTO foolishly thinking they cold control it.

[Keyser Soze]

Sorry, but as long as GM, Ford and Chrysler continue to load their cars up with foreign made parts and fill their plants with foreign equipment I'll continue to purchase the vehicle that is the best for MY needs. How does the big three support US companies by using parts from Omron, Clarion, NGK, Bosch, Bridgestone, Kumho, etc? Let's not even get into all the Chinese, Indian and Pakistani parts (like stamped brakets) that are not even labeled. How about the Kuka and Motoman robots in the plants? How about the foreign contractors like Henkel? How was the Fusion plant in Mexico "good for America?" I could go on for days.

 

I bought both my current Fords because they best met my total needs. I bought my Subaru for the same reason. Origin of the corporation no longer has much impact on my decision. Years ago it did, but not anymore. If the domestics change their ways, I'll not only give them priority in my car buying decisions, I'll pay a reasonable premium. When the big 3 walk the walk, I'll listen when someone talks the talk.

[retro-man]

Excellent links RaZor. I'm glad to see that there are others out there who get it. Like Gomory, I have worked on both sides. The author is right - it is like a religion. The supposed benefits are always an article of faith. It's always "Oh, it will all work out - you'll see." Adjusted for inflation, Americans make no more per hour worked, and we work 20% more hours per capita than we did 40 years ago (if you listen to the Bureau of Labor Statistics that is, and not the Heritage Foundation). This increase through slightly creeping work hours and a huge increase in double income families, has kept alive the illusion of prosperity, even as the foundation has been steadily eroding away. I despise those who accept uncritically what they are told by the puppet masters, and I am sorry for my children for what we have left them in this mindless obedience to laissez faire. Mercifully, they don't really know any different - save for the grumbling stories of an old man.

Edited January 6, 2008 by retro-man

[Ralph Greene]

What is so American about Ford and GM? Do they make all the cars they sell in the US in the US? Does Toyota and Honda make most of the cars they sell in the US in the US? I bet Toyota and Honda make a higher percentage of the vehicles they sell here with US labor than does Ford and GM?

 

And about the ownership and taxes thing. All these business are International companies. Paying taxes, sourcing labor and parts, and manufactoring all over the world. You think they are loyal to the US? Or Japan?

 

Shares of all these companies are held by investors all over the world, and to the investors ultimately go the profits. I would not be surprised if the UAW/CAW didn't own shares of Honda and Toyota in the pension fund.

 

I'm a Ford man, and buy Ford cars, but don't pull the "Buy US" stuff on me. When Ford, GM, and Chrysler buy all their parts in US and make all their cars in US, I will do the same. You do no business any good when you buy their product without them being deserving of your business. ECON 101.

 

BTW....I happen to think Ford will make it. Things go in cycles, and I think the cycle is turing in their favor. They have good products and their back is to the wall. I just ordered a new Mustang and will probably replace wife's Montego next year. Probably will replace daughter's Honda with Milan soon also. But I'm not doing this out of Patriatism, but because of the good products and the improving dealerships. They are deserving of my business.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[chevys]

Im with you Ralph. By the way, what kind of Mustang did you order? Im an old mach 1 guy here by the way and still have mine.

[CarShark]

Excellent links RaZor. I'm glad to see that there are others out there who get it. Like Gomory, I have worked on both sides. The author is right - it is like a religion. The supposed benefits are always an article of faith. It's always "Oh, it will all work out - you'll see."

Yeesh. The Nation? You might as well have raised the red flag replete with hammer and sickle. EDIT-After actually reading it, I've discovered that I'm agreeing with a good chunk of it down below. I'm going to start calling everyone "comrade".

 

EDIT 2-After actually reading the entire article, I've finally found the heavy-handed buttinski government aspect I know and despise greatly.

 

Gomory's proposed solution would change two big things (and many lesser ones). First, the US government must intervene unilaterally to cap the nation's swollen trade deficit and force it to shrink until balanced trade is achieved with our trading partners...Capping US trade deficits would have wrenching consequences at home and abroad but could force other nations to consider reforms in how the trading system now functions.

 

Second, government must impose national policy direction on the behavior of US multinationals, directly influencing their investment decisions. Gomory thinks this can be done most effectively through the TAX code.

All the red flags, sirens, klaxons and other warning systems went berzerk at the last few paragraphs. Complete lunacy. Notwithstanding the oxymoronic label "US multinational"

 

 

*sigh* That said, I must admit that I have seen evidence of the near-deification of free trade. On some conservative-hosted shows. On some pro-business websites. Pretty much anything connected with CNBC's Larry Kudlow. It's like they don't recognize that there is a dark side to "free trade" that involves actual human beings.

 

Ugh. I hate contradicting myself. The thing is...to me, at least, is "free trade" is a sham. Or at least a misnomer. It's really more of an economic theory than a reality. Truthfully, it's not so much about American goods ending up everywhere and everyone else's goods ending up here so much as breaking into a new market and gaining access to more cheap labor and consumers. If it was about free trade, we wouldn't let other countries have barriers or other fees on our products, and we wouldn't have any ourselves. We allow it because it's more convenient than not getting more buyers or labor, or pissing off a powerful lobby. There are enough success stories (McDonald's, Microsoft) that people don't realize that not everything is as rosy as it seems. China is taking the brunt of the anti-import sentiment this year, because of the recalls, but more things are getting made in Malaysia and South Africa and Mexico and other countries. Just as under regulated, just as many human rights violations, but nowhere near the heat of a national spotlight.

 

Even though the system is broken, I still like free market, free trade capitalism more than any other system. I think it truly rewards effort and courage and innovation and everything that America is supposed to be about. The government keeping its hands off of business matters is a good thing to me. It's just too bad that other bad people can mess around with it.

 

Back to cars: Once again, I have never let trade policy dictate my purchases, and I doubt I ever will. "Buy American" is not the American way to me. I agree with Ralph and others in saying that the domestics draping themselves in the U.S. flag is a ludicrous strategy when you are a global company. A Korean-made Aveo. A Mexican-made Fusion. A Canadian-made Charger. All with who knows how many foreign transmissions and suspensions and other parts. It's just disingenuous selective memory at work for the people who follow it, the same as "free trade" followers. Amazing how things connect when you think about it. (and actually read everything!!!)

Edited January 6, 2008 by CarShark

[bondo007]

Many good points made by all who have responded to this topic. One very important aspect has not been brought up which is unique to this country, Tort litigation. All of our domestic automobile manufacturers spend more in legal expenses defending lawsuits brought against them than they do on research and development. As a nation we must now rely on "Yankee Enginuity" to develop technologies in automotive design which will greatly reduce our reliance on foreign oil. Until meaniful Tort Reform is achieved in this country, this enginuity will be stiffled.

 

China sets back and laughs at our multitude of Trial Lawyers. Our free system of Government is the best in the world, let it not be ruined by over litigation!

 

Got to run, got hot clay in the oven.

[Joe771476]

I have to wonder if the Big 3 were told they could go back to the 70's and be guauranteed whatever marketshare they had in the US which was GM at around 57 percent, Ford 29 percent, and Chrysler 14 percent, and keep whatever marketshare they had in other countries back then, but withdraw from all new markets they've entered in the last say, 5 to 10 years like China for example, would they accept those conditions. Any thoughts? I think they'd jump on it!

[suv_guy_19]

I have to wonder if the Big 3 were told they could go back to the 70's and be guauranteed whatever marketshare they had in the US which was GM at around 57 percent, Ford 29 percent, and Chrysler 14 percent, and keep whatever marketshare they had in other countries back then, but withdraw from all new markets they've entered in the last say, 5 to 10 years like China for example, would they accept those conditions. Any thoughts? I think they'd jump on it!

 

I hope not. They should have learned by now not to put all their eggs in one basket.