suv_guy_19 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) Toyota Motor Corp. is winning the battle for full-sized pickup buyers in Texas, the biggest market for the trucks that are Detroit automakers' best-selling models. Promoting the redesigned 2007 Tundra, Toyota forced General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC to match incentive spending estimated at about $6,000 per truck. While Tundra's Texas market share soared 79 percent, competitors' shrank by 5 percent, said market-research firm R.L. Polk & Co. Bloomberg.com Edited January 11, 2008 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) I don't think there is any doubt Tundra will overtake the F-150. It's only a matter of time. If there is one thing Toyota has demonstrated, it's that they are committed, patient, and stable. Ford F-150 is tied to survicing an existing customer and has little opportunity to grow and change. Edited January 11, 2008 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 I don't think there is any doubt Tundra will overtake the F-150. It's only a matter of time. If there is one thing Toyota has demonstrated, it's that they are committed, patient, and stable. I think there is quite a great deal of doubt about that. This is not the car market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think there is quite a great deal of doubt about that. This is not the car market. Toyota didn't become number one by making nothing but Camrys and Corollas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Toyota didn't become number one by making nothing but Camrys and Corollas. It will be a great deal of time from now if it ever happens. Toyota does not get the truck market. The huge majority of these sales are not from previous truck buyers. Truck buyers are a very loyal bunch. They aren't as convinced by the T on the front. Toyota also did not become number one by letting quality drop so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I think there is quite a great deal of doubt about that. This is not the car market. How many segments does Toyota have to dominate before people actually consider them a threat, it would be very dumb to have your philosophy of "This isn't the car market"....................Well The Domestics used to dominate the car market, now the only segment they dominate is the Full size pick up market, the japanese pretty much took over about every other segment...........either the took it over by strict commitment to segment leading products or in many cases GM and Ford handed the segments over on silver platters..............hence what just happened to the Compact SUV market that ford dominated justa few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Toyota will get a sizeable share eventually, but the days of Ford being its own worst enemy are over, so the Tundra is never going to be a Camry-gorilla, as well, GM may have problems, but they are not going to surrender their share easily, either. Both are in the marketplace with totally-competitive product to face the Tundra, instead of Contours and GrandAms to face the Camry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 How many segments does Toyota have to dominate before people actually consider them a threat, it would be very dumb to have your philosophy of "This isn't the car market"....................Well The Domestics used to dominate the car market, now the only segment they dominate is the Full size pick up market, the japanese pretty much took over about every other segment...........either the took it over by strict commitment to segment leading products or in many cases GM and Ford handed the segments over on silver platters..............hence what just happened to the Compact SUV market that ford dominated justa few years ago. I never said that Toyota wasn't a threat. I said that the truck market is different. Year they are a threat. Of course they are, but they have a long way to go before they passed Ford. You don't actually expect them to grow at this amount every year do you. Also, if their quality continues to fall (even Motortrend mentioned it in regard to the Camry). Fords brand perception, quality, and product is improving. I see Toyota as a threat, but I don't see the Tundra passing the F150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) It will be a great deal of time from now if it ever happens. Toyota does not get the truck market. The huge majority of these sales are not from previous truck buyers. Truck buyers are a very loyal bunch. They aren't as convinced by the T on the front. Toyota also did not become number one by letting quality drop so much. Tundra sales ``are coming from traditionally Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge'' buyers, said dealer Sam Pack, who owns three Ford stores in the Dallas area. ``Have they negatively affected Ford? No question they have.'' An interesting 12 months ahead. A revitalised F150 takes on a dubious but popular Tundra. I do know that offering $6,000 incentives on 200,000 Tundras is less expensive than Ford offering the same deal on 650,000 F Trucks, About $2.7 Billion dearer for Ford. Edited January 11, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Both are in the marketplace with totally-competitive product to face the Tundra, instead of Contours and GrandAms to face the Camry. Another good point. I don't see Ford handing this segment over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Talk about a BS article, yea,the only way the Turdra could destroy Detroit is if one was flown over the city at high speed and it's TripleFlex frame launched the Flex-a-bed into downtown and caused a spontaneous collapse of all downtown high rises... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) I don't think there is any doubt Tundra will overtake the F-150. It's only a matter of time. If there is one thing Toyota has demonstrated, it's that they are committed, patient, and stable. Ford F-150 is tied to survicing an existing customer and has little opportunity to grow and change. Are you serious? They can't even build a truck! This Tundra might have to be bought back by Toyota and crushed due to be a faulty, dangerous vehicle. There's no way in hell it's going to overtake the F-150, especially considering the new engines/tranny's coming out that will kill the tin can Turdra in anything a truck needs to do. You'll never go by a construction site and see it filled with Turdra's, no matter what they do Ford will always have an advantage over them.. Edited January 11, 2008 by Blueblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I don't see Toyota touching GM or Ford. They may threaten the Dodge Ram, but even it I believe is secure for the time being. Factor in the black eyes they received with initial quality control problems and notable recalls and Tundra has sullied what could have been a much more formidable entry into the realm of serious half-tons. We've been talking perception in recent days and the perception of the F-150 is the best half-ton on the market. Nevermind the Super Duties. Furthering Toyota's plight will be taking on the Silverado. It is my belief that even Chrysler will retain its third place safely unless the company fails. The same would be the case for the F-Series. Only a terribly slumping Ford Motor Company would lose their truck title to Toyota. Roll out the Camrys and Corollas all you want, but the domestics know their truck customers and their customers are among the most loyal. If Dodge were to completely fold, I feel confident that most would walk into Ford or GM showrooms before Toyota. Its the nature of the client. When you want a truck, you want reputation; not a drag race. Even before I had even heard of the TwinForce/Ecoboost engine programs, I had a hunch that Ford would be the auto manufacturer to watch in the next decade. I think you're going to see Ford resemble itself from the eighties in their success. Ford looks prepared. Their quality is up, their cars are more respectable and can stand toe to toe with the Japanese models they compete against. I do believe the EcoBoost will be the turning point...for better or for worse...and I believe it will be for the better. I also think that Ford will revolutionize the truck market. I think people are ready for light duty diesel and I think that program will be another success for Ford. Ford is having to undo some damage that was done to its reputation, but I see that coming back quickly. I think Taurus will eventually come out of the sales slump and I think a redesigned Fusion will only enhance its success. Edge is a winner. Lincoln is poised for a major turn around. While a couple of Ford models I have doubts about (Flex and Fusion to name a few) I think the health of the company will make drastic improvements, especially at a time where Toyota's quality has taken a few hits...even in their car production. It may be that Honda could play a part in slowing down the Toyota juggernaut. I think Ford will be ready for the next decade and you'll see the Blue Oval gleaming again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I don't think there is any doubt Tundra will overtake the F-150. It's only a matter of time. If there is one thing Toyota has demonstrated, it's that they are committed, patient, and stable. Ford F-150 is tied to survicing an existing customer and has little opportunity to grow and change. $6,000 to push an all new truck? Yeah that's dominance. Give me a freaking break. Back when Ford was selling tons of Tauri did Toyota have to stoop down to Ford's level and plop a ton of incentives on the Camry? No. This is all about Toyota trying to come off as being dominate in a market that they STILL don't understand. If this were Ford you would have a flock of people claiming that Ford sucks because they dumped all those incentives on a new truck. All of that and they still missed a sales target. Making trucks at an all new plant that has a ton of capacity. What are they going to do with the new Ram, F-150 and the domestics introduction of diesels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 the 6k in incentives must be from the 0% financing they are offering, otherwise it 2k in cash. Its either or not both. The Tundra has been proven itself before and still continues to, that it is a extremely light duty truck that is going to appeal to similar consumer of the ridgeline. A guy who is driving a F-350 with a 6.4 to haul his 12' camper and pull his 4 horse trailer is not going to be buying a Tundra anytime soon. The weekend warrior who did not want a cramped ranger/s10/dakota/tacoma to haul his yard clippings to the recycle center who bought a f-150 will probably get a Tundra so he can get the same paint to match his cramery. So yes ford will loose sales to the me-too crowed but true truck buyers who actually haul things with there truck are laughing at the silly new toy rolling down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Nissan's share of the fullsize truck market went from zilch to something like 5%, that's an ... what's 5 divided by zero? .... impossible improvement in market share..... In fact, with Toyo's share going UP 79% while the dominant players LOST 5% should tell you where most of those sales were coming from---marginal marketplace expansion and the poor pathetic Nissan Titan. Another factor: how many of those sales are permanently lost? It's not as though the Tundra is 'every bit as good as' the F150; it's not. As buyers discover they've been sold a bill of goods, out comes the "Yeah, I had a Toyota once. It was a PIECE OF CRAP. I'll never make that mistake again," stories that once upon a time sunk the domestic auto makers. There is no magic pixie looking out for Toyota. They don't have a fair godmother. They are subject to the same payback for the same STUPID moves as any Detroit auto maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) Oh they have a magic fairy all right, called the lazy journalist society. Ford should offer an amnesty on Tundras under 3 months old for disillusioned Tundra buyers. Edited January 13, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 As for comparing Full-sized truck sales to what happened in the car market, its totally different ball game...all the Detroit makes are very competitive with one another and even Toyota's vaunted quality they are know for has been going down the crapper that could be used as a wedge to make in-roads into the market isn't going to fly because of all the issues with the Tundra and other models. I don't see Tundra sales improving over last year, if anything they will shrink a bit due to the new F-150. Thats the reason the F-150 had the biggest drop this year..its the oldest pickup on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) I don't see Toyota touching GM or Ford. They may threaten the Dodge Ram, but even it I believe is secure for the time being. Factor in the black eyes they received with initial quality control problems and notable recalls and Tundra has sullied what could have been a much more formidable entry into the realm of serious half-tons. We've been talking perception in recent days and the perception of the F-150 is the best half-ton on the market. Nevermind the Super Duties. Furthering Toyota's plight will be taking on the Silverado. It is my belief that even Chrysler will retain its third place safely unless the company fails. The same would be the case for the F-Series. Only a terribly slumping Ford Motor Company would lose their truck title to Toyota. Roll out the Camrys and Corollas all you want, but the domestics know their truck customers and their customers are among the most loyal. If Dodge were to completely fold, I feel confident that most would walk into Ford or GM showrooms before Toyota. Its the nature of the client. When you want a truck, you want reputation; not a drag race. Even before I had even heard of the TwinForce/Ecoboost engine programs, I had a hunch that Ford would be the auto manufacturer to watch in the next decade. I think you're going to see Ford resemble itself from the eighties in their success. Ford looks prepared. Their quality is up, their cars are more respectable and can stand toe to toe with the Japanese models they compete against. I do believe the EcoBoost will be the turning point...for better or for worse...and I believe it will be for the better. I also think that Ford will revolutionize the truck market. I think people are ready for light duty diesel and I think that program will be another success for Ford. Ford is having to undo some damage that was done to its reputation, but I see that coming back quickly. I think Taurus will eventually come out of the sales slump and I think a redesigned Fusion will only enhance its success. Edge is a winner. Lincoln is poised for a major turn around. While a couple of Ford models I have doubts about (Flex and Fusion to name a few) I think the health of the company will make drastic improvements, especially at a time where Toyota's quality has taken a few hits...even in their car production. It may be that Honda could play a part in slowing down the Toyota juggernaut. I think Ford will be ready for the next decade and you'll see the Blue Oval gleaming again. Well said, Traveler. I agree with you about Ford's future. Edited January 13, 2008 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) I sent this guy an e-mail. I haven't received a response yet. If your idea of killing Detroit is slapping $6,000 of incentives on the hood, then sure, they killed Detroit. Yet you should know that this isn't killing Detroit. Clearly, placing large incentives on your vehicle doesn't kill anybody but yourself. Toyota is going to pay for this in resale value. Add to the resale value the fact that the Toyota Tundras are spitting camshafts, have slipshod reliability, and Toyota is dumping them on the market with huge incentives that erode profits, I hardly see how Toyota is killing Detroit. They didn't even meet their internal sales goals, and yet they're killing Detroit?! People who are buying the Tundra: 1) People who bought their "tough" Tundra ads (mistakenly based on reports of the truck) 2) People who don't really need a truck but want to go fast (so much for an environmentally responsible Toyota). Toyota only killed Detroit in your dreams. Detroit still RULES the truck market. It's highly unlikely that the Tundra's sales will increase next year with the introduction of the new F-150 and Dodge Ram this year. Dumping incentives on trucks might increase your market share at all costs, but that isn't how Toyota gained the car market. Toyota's claim to fame was slow and steady progress. They broke this trend with the Tundra. Toyota needs to stop the quick-fix games if it wants to keep its reputation. Even the Camry isn't the unblemished gold-star of the class it once was. Edited January 13, 2008 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Toyota didn't become number one by making nothing but Camrys and Corollas. Uh, hate to burst your bubble but yes they did. That's exactly how they became # 1. Actually # 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armadamaster Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Considering previous Texas Blundra sales were virtually nonexistent...you'll have to excuse for not wetting myself when they save they've gone up 79 percent. The most popular "new" bodystyle trucks I have seen in Texas' largest city has been the Sliverado/Sierra abortions...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Considering previous Texas Blundra sales were virtually nonexistent...you'll have to excuse for not wetting myself when they save they've gone up 79 percent. The most popular "new" bodystyle trucks I have seen in Texas' largest city has been the Sliverado/Sierra abortions...period. It's very easy to go up 79% when sales were nonexistent before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Toyota themselves are only budgeting for 200,000 Tundras - no increase over 2007. They know what they did pumping up sales with incentives and it will kick them this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Toyota themselves are only budgeting for 200,000 Tundras - no increase over 2007.They know what they did pumping up sales with incentives and it will kick them this year. I didn't know they released that yet. As you said, they couldn't continue w/ those sort of incentives forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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