SAME OLD BUYOUTS WILL GET FEW TAKERS

[CSMJ]

OK, but what's "decent?" If you ask 10 people, you'll probably get 8 different answers.

 

Here's a suggestion: give the people from the 70's their lost time back, on condition that if they get it, they must retire.

 

How many people would that get, company-wide? I think that's a number the company could count on to go.

Ford owes you guys nothing you were LAIDOFF Why would Ford give you 10+ years of free credits when they owe yu nothing!!NOTHING Laidoff is not employed at ford so sory stop dreaming cause it aint happenin ever

Besides if ford gave you 10 free years then te ones that worked those years would want 10 free credit years also so they could get a bigger pension.

So someone who worked from 77-07 retireed and someone who was off from 79-94 gets free time.

Edited January 26, 2008 by CSMJ

[Pumpmaster]

Boo-Yeah!

Truer words were never spoken. Give us our time back, but just for retirement purposes, and we are GONE!

All I want is what I've got coming to me. All I want is my fair share. Ha Ha!

 

Seriously though, just throw us a freakin' bone. I've got 20 years in; If Ford would give us credit for our 20 plus years, with a "2/3 of 30" retirement offer, including healthcare until Medicare kicks in, then that would make it easy enough to go. Otherwise, you'd have to be crazy to go. It will be our jobs to stay and make Ford Motor pay for their transgressions. And pay, and pay, and pay...

 

So it's a REAL 20 year retirement offer, or nothing for me. There you go Ford, and I've already given you the snappy little acronym;-) REAL: Restitution Enabled And Liberated program.

 

Now, put that in your Pinto four-banger and smoke it.

 

:hysterical:

 

I had a GF who had a '79 Bobcat; it wuz actually a decent little car!

[whereswaldo]

Nice cheery half smile. He's NOT talking to employee's.

THIS MAN DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST'S AT STAKE!

You dont have to tell me twice.

[Critic]

I've got 20 years in; If Ford would give us credit for our 20 plus years, with a "2/3 of 30" retirement offer, including healthcare until Medicare kicks in, then that would make it easy enough to go. Otherwise, you'd have to be crazy to go. It will be our jobs to stay and make Ford Motor pay for their transgressions. And pay, and pay, and pay...

Can I sell you a car?

 

2/3's? How about 1/3? I'm paying people with 30+ years from 50K to 70K, just to go with full retirement. I did a pretty good deal with people that can go with just 85 points too.

 

Those 30+ people got $5,000 to 7000 for 10 years. But meanwhile for the 10 potential years you lost, you want just $693 extra a year for the lost time. I'll give you 1/3 of that or $228 a year extra, 1/2? .... well OK $346. If I had given you a year for each one you were off, I'm just out $1260 extra a year.

 

Even if every person that got each year back that lost time from 79-89 received a full credit for each year, and the potential buyouts, it still wouldn't achieve 10K hourly leaving now. Ford needs to get rid of as many 20+ year employee's as possible so they can start to implement the 20% clause. Time to be proactive and move while they can shrink ASAP. Those lost time employee people did what was asked, went thru a hell of a lot more than these new buyout people get and would be more than grateful if Ford stepped up to the plate and just gave a credit for each year lost. These people are still young enough to purchase multiple future cars too. Perhaps that might end up in Phase II of the buyout program. but otherwise, Phase I is not going to move but a handful out.

[cecilmeyer]

The UAW has to pay for your benefits so wake the fk up not going to happen! What kind of Drugs are you on??

Are you always such a crude person?I did not curse at you.I just put my opinion out there.I did not say you had to like it.Obviously you do not like people who do not agree with you.You make America a great place to live.It is a shame people with your mindset are not in charge,OOPS, they are!

[Captain723]

Captain, I would be willing to bet a quarter, there is a new offer by shutdown.

For those with 30 yrs? Either way I will bet you, with the exception of those who lost seniority in 79,80!!

[CSMJ]

For those with 30 yrs? Either way I will bet you, with the exception of those who lost seniority in 79,80!!

You didnt loose seniority you got laidoff let the past be just that the past.

[Captain723]

Ford is DOWNSIZING shrinking! The economy is going into the toilet as we speak, Inflation is rising.

Right now til Feb 13, Buyout offers are only for closed plants (4) / 1000 people. Then Company wide. IF your not sitting in a plant slated for closure this year, your not going anywhere.

 

No one wants to look at the possibility that "NO ONE will get placed INTO a Ford plant", certainly NOT trades. Ford wants 10000 hourly, 2000 Salary people gone now. There is not going to be a great migration of people into or out of Michigan. People like where they live, the thought of living in Michigan where those plants are is not a pretty thought. Every plant is running at <80% capacity now with the people they have. Ford sales will not return to even 2005 levels.

 

Your in an assy. plant; very very few will leave. Real Question is how many TEMP's are in an assy. plant? How long will they allow them to work there? They already screwed up by not showing the FORD workers they are Temp and clearing them out so potential JSP people see that there are opening's. So not taking a package means nothing to you. ACH options are this, Either take a package OR go to JSP. (5600 total Ford workers in ACH now). You end up in JSP you've given up the option of a package and now it's a dice roll. You will collect SUB money, but probably only for a few months if those plants show a need for workers. Then they will come to you with a job offer, you turn one down, you start sweating, because you will feel the next one you HAVE to take. You don't take the offer, no big deal, it was just a job and you wouldn't move to Michigan anyways. Stay in JSP until the money stops, get a job, with the chance of still going to FORD with each new offer they come to you with.

 

I think Ford will only let a temp go, when they have a committed person WILLING to transfer. Come April when they see that they had a take rate of just a few thousand, it will be another round again this year. Then that equals bad publicity, they can't shrink fast enough. Ford will not be getting Tier2 workers anytime soon with this package and that is what they want. Apr. they will not have commitments to leave. They will still have a lot of temps in the assy. plants and an over abundance of people to go into JSP. Even if Ford had no Temp's and every ACH person would move they still will have to many people on the roll's. Place every ACH person and then the low senority people in the assy. plants will be in JSP, and drawing a check for a long long time.

 

IT's just a rehash of old ideas once again. Take rate will probably be less than 4000 total this year. They really need to get rid of people aged 40-60 and 20-30 years service. Ford wants 20% Tier2 workers then they need to clear out over 20000+ people as soon as May. Then the stock price will go up, and they will just be at a size for 'potential' growth in the future, but that growth will only be at assy. plants. They will have gotten rid of all parts plants by the end of the year except for a couple that will just have 4 more years to live.

 

No, not many will be jumping on this offer this time. This isn't the roaring 90's, anymore. However once everything stabilizes, I sure would like one of those profit sharing checks! Let's hope I'm wrong.

This was a great movie...sometimes I think that I am in history class with a bunch of stoners!!

[Critic]

Ford owes you guys nothing you were LAIDOFF Why would Ford give you 10+ years of free credits when they owe yu nothing!!NOTHING Laidoff is not employed at ford so sory stop dreaming cause it aint happenin ever

Besides if ford gave you 10 free years then te ones that worked those years would want 10 free credit years also so they could get a bigger pension.

So someone who worked from 77-07 retireed and someone who was off from 79-94 gets free time.

 

Ford trimmed the roll's drastically in '79. Almost 40% if not more. Anyone that was there knows what it was like, Today's GEN or JSP pays a full wage whether you work or not, there is no fear of no income. Back then SUB paid 80% of take home pay and lasted about 2-3 months on the 'average'. Some of those same lucky workers had to RE-Hire when they came back. Some lucky people were hired in at a few plants in '82, but got to transfer in '84 to other plants and never had a break in seniority. They effectively have more retirement time than anyone that got caught up in the massive layoff's from the 70's.

 

What is your stake in this? If you took a buyout before, you made a decision that everyone else in Ford had to make. Right now NO FORD employee has to go anywhere, they can wait for Ford to find them a job, PERIOD! Ford's stake is to get rid of 20K employee's so the company stabilises and starts to show a profit. You think Ford can stand to lose another 3-5 BILLION for '08? A recession will be extremely bad for Ford unless they are running lean and mean. Then the plants can crank up to 100% with the lower workforce numbers and profit returns. They know exactly how much a 20% tier will save vs. retirement for any 30 credit year employee. They still make profit vs. having 1 Ford employee on the roll.

[Captain723]

I won't !! If you think the take rate will be 70 % as you have said, all I can do is laugh. First,you'll be lucky to get 20% from ACH's. Like Cobra8 said, there could be another round of buyouts later this year. Remember last year when the argument for 35k was that this was it and likely wouldnt be another chance ? Ford NEEDS to have enough buyouts cuz layoffs arent going to change a thing. They'll just dump tons of $$ in JSP and still wont be able to hire newbies. Alan if your poop boys are listening, add VEBA to the 140K + pension if you got 30 yrs or more and you will clear out so many that you will have to pick who goes and who stays.

Alan has no say so in the VEBA waldfk! The UAW wants everyone to stay!!! That means that the Veba will be safe. Especially when you guys croak in the plant. That is just less we have to pay for your health care and leaves more for me. :happy feet:

Edited January 26, 2008 by Captain723

[Captain723]

Why do you say "Ford Motor does not care if ACH Ford employees leave"? A Ford worker at ACH is as much of a Ford worker at let's say... KTP. Dosen't matter if you work at ACH or not, a Ford worker is a Ford worker.

Hey fat frank......what I was referring too was if ACH/Ford EE's do not take the buy out Ford Motor does not care because Ford EE's at Ford sites will and then they will force their asses to make a decision!!

[Captain723]

 

Nice cheery half smile. He's NOT talking to employee's.

1 year of AWESOME achievements. (only known accomplishment is renaming an existing car). Everything else was already in the pipeline before "he got $30 million for 1 year" from Ford Motor Co.

 

Every Lawyer will tell you:

 

THIS MAN DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST'S AT STAKE!

You can not give him credit for that....it was Bob King's idea!!

[Captain723]

OK, but what's "decent?" If you ask 10 people, you'll probably get 8 different answers.

 

Here's a suggestion: give the people from the 70's their lost time back, on condition that if they get it, they must retire.

 

How many people would that get, company-wide? I think that's a number the company could count on to go.

I agree with this.....can I get 14 yrs too. I would have worked at Ford but I was still in the womb...does that count? :shades:

Edited January 26, 2008 by Captain723

[Captain723]

Are you always such a crude person?I did not curse at you.I just put my opinion out there.I did not say you had to like it.Obviously you do not like people who do not agree with you.You make America a great place to live.It is a shame people with your mindset are not in charge,OOPS, they are!

I get that way when I havn't had a drink...if you don't like it you could sit at the round table with Waldfk, wake up and me and have a nice cup of STFU!! :beerchug:

[Hard-Drivin' Man]

Alan has no say so in the VEBA waldfk! The UAW wants everyone to stay!!! That means that the Veba will be safe. Especially when you guys croak in the plant. That is just less we have to pay for your health care and leaves more for me. :happy feet:

 

 

Ok, logically, where does Ford go next. I mean if they can't get the 10,000 buyouts this time around. Let's say they get less than 5,000. We all know that they've got to make room for the new-hires in order to save the company by raising the stock price.

So, what is the next logical step for Ford?

Which group gets targeted and what would be the parameters? Captain? Level? Anyone?

Just wonderin'... :reading:

[fantasyfrank]

Hey fat frank......what I was referring too was if ACH/Ford EE's do not take the buy out Ford Motor does not care because Ford EE's at Ford sites will and then they will force their asses to make a decision!!

I see what you are saying now. I personally don't think Ford will get alot of takers on this round but I could be wrong.

[Critic]

This was a great movie...sometimes I think that I am in history class with a bunch of stoners!!

Alan has no say so in the VEBA waldfk! The UAW wants everyone to stay!!! That means that the Veba will be safe. Especially when you guys croak in the plant. That is just less we have to pay for your health care and leaves more for me. :happy feet:

Hey fat frank......what I was referring too was if ACH/Ford EE's do not take the buy out Ford Motor does not care because Ford EE's at Ford sites will and then they will force their asses to make a decision!!

 

Usually you get those who can't express themselves without calling names or are stuck in a mindset that they truly care only for themselves. Thus the above.

 

VEBA doesn't kick in until 2010, and then not until the next contract fully. Since VEBA as sold to you by the UAW will last for 80 years, the UAW has a very vested interest in seeing no one touches it til they have to. As soon as you can get onto Mediciad you will be forced to. As this quoted shows, he has a vested interest. He just sees his own pocket book, is he sitting in a plant where he does not have to move or worry about his future wage earning years? He also is not going to take a package, because he doesn't qualify for it, and he doesn't have time to get back. Those are the ones that will say their is no smoke.

[Critic]

You can not give him credit for that....it was Bob King's idea!!

Really? Every quoted newspaper article seems to be giving the credit to the wrong man then.

[Captain723]

Ok, logically, where does Ford go next. I mean if they can't get the 10,000 buyouts this time around. Let's say they get less than 5,000. We all know that they've got to make room for the new-hires in order to save the company by raising the stock price.

So, what is the next logical step for Ford?

Which group gets targeted and what would be the parameters? Captain? Level? Anyone?

Just wonderin'... :reading:

They are working on something for those that were laid off in the 79/80. The buy outs isn't what is going to raise their stock the Ford worker only makes up 12% of the vehicle cost. That isn't going to get stock jumping. It is going to get them some instant cash, but not if they have to give cash for those they are buying out. The UAW agreed to the sell or close of ACH facilities to try and help the company out. We will not see any entry level employees for a few years....we will not see any investment or new product for a few years!! They will be done after these buy outs. If they do not get what they need they will work on another plan. If the cost of exporting/importing does not change in our country to level the playing field, we will not have to worry about JSP or anything else. The company will be in bankrupcy and will not worry about any CBA!!

[Captain723]

Usually you get those who can't express themselves without calling names or are stuck in a mindset that they truly care only for themselves. Thus the above.

 

VEBA doesn't kick in until 2010, and then not until the next contract fully. Since VEBA as sold to you by the UAW will last for 80 years, the UAW has a very vested interest in seeing no one touches it til they have to. As soon as you can get onto Mediciad you will be forced to. As this quoted shows, he has a vested interest. He just sees his own pocket book, is he sitting in a plant where he does not have to move or worry about his future wage earning years? He also is not going to take a package, because he doesn't qualify for it, and he doesn't have time to get back. Those are the ones that will say their is no smoke.

Hey critic...if I tell you to go fk yourself is that name calling???

I am a UAW member with a family and hell yes I have a vested interest to make sure my family has health care! If you are a UAW member then you should too!!!

[fantasyfrank]

They are working on something for those that were laid off in the 79/80. The buy outs isn't what is going to raise their stock the Ford worker only makes up 12% of the vehicle cost. That isn't going to get stock jumping. It is going to get them some instant cash, but not if they have to give cash for those they are buying out. The UAW agreed to the sell or close of ACH facilities to try and help the company out. We will not see any entry level employees for a few years....we will not see any investment or new product for a few years!! They will be done after these buy outs. If they do not get what they need they will work on another plan. If the cost of exporting/importing does not change in our country to level the playing field, we will not have to worry about JSP or anything else. The company will be in bankrupcy and will not worry about any CBA!!

Can you be more specific about people who were laid off in 79/80? I heard something today at our union meeting that I think goes along with what you are saying about 79/80 layoffs.

[Captain723]

Can you be more specific about people who were laid off in 79/80? I heard something today at our union meeting that I think goes along with what you are saying about 79/80 layoffs.

There are still some hang ups....if it isn't done I really can't talk about it. They are working on something!! Ask waldfk, he knows everything!! He also thinks he's getting 140k to retire and keep bennies!!

[howie]

I won't !! If you think the take rate will be 70 % as you have said, all I can do is laugh. First,you'll be lucky to get 20% from ACH's. Like Cobra8 said, there could be another round of buyouts later this year. Remember last year when the argument for 35k was that this was it and likely wouldnt be another chance ? Ford NEEDS to have enough buyouts cuz layoffs arent going to change a thing. They'll just dump tons of $$ in JSP and still wont be able to hire newbies. Alan if your poop boys are listening, add VEBA to the 140K + pension if you got 30 yrs or more and you will clear out so many that you will have to pick who goes and who stays.

 

Finally, someone who has a clear perception of what it would take. Although VEBA doesn't kick in for another 2 years, I think Ford will be forced to terms you espouse, waldo. If this buyout offer goes into the toilet, and it will, Ford only has two alternatives. Open up more plants for jobs or begin the very costly layoffs. Ford is deadset against the alternatives and will be forced to create a real incentive to leave. Reasons that Ford will offer a better buyout: shareholders are anticipating Ford saving a huge amount of money with the half-price workers and other goodies the UAW gave up. The pressure from Wall Street and Ford Family has got to be tremendous for these savings to begin now. Another reason, Ford is beginning to get the message that the easy pickings are now gone. The hardcore that remain are becoming very disgruntled that Ford is offering similar crumbs as the 2006 buyout. The hardcore are realizing that Ford is set to save a humongous amount of money with this new contract of VEBA, half-price workers and little to no future pensions to new hires. Another reason, the hardcore that are left have seen what has happened to the majority of those whom took the crumbs last time. The horror stories are rampant. The hardcore are much more aware that similar fates may await them. Especially with the economy going into the crapper as it is. If we stand together and tell Ford to come back with a much better offer, it will happen. While we are holding Ford by the nuts, why not demand a little bit more? Why not 2 years of your best gross or 140K, whichever is greater, full benefits and pension also? If we squeeze a bit, maybe even a voucher for something like a F-350 King Ranch? Folks, let us not just shoot for the moon, let's own it.

[Critic]

Usually you get those who can't express themselves without calling names or are stuck in a mindset that they truly care only for themselves. Thus the above.

 

VEBA doesn't kick in until 2010, and then not until the next contract fully. Since VEBA as sold to you by the UAW will last for 80 years, the UAW has a very vested interest in seeing no one touches it til they have to. As soon as you can get onto Medicaid you will be forced to. As this quoted shows, he has a vested interest. He just sees his own pocket book, is he sitting in a plant where he does not have to move or worry about his future wage earning years? He also is not going to take a package, because he doesn't qualify for it, and he doesn't have time to get back. Those are the ones that will say their is no smoke.

Hey critic...if I tell you to go fk yourself is that name calling???

I am a UAW member with a family and hell yes I have a vested interest to make sure my family has health care! If you are a UAW member then you should too!!!

I rest my case. He is secure but emotionally insecure, he stands nothing to gain with getting time back. His plant will still be operating in 4 years.

 

In 4 years Ford will still be trying to trim rolls at this rate. Every Profit Statement for the last 2 years, Ford has written off what it has cost to trim the rolls, last quarter alone was in the million's for buyouts. Now that will never be shown again on the statements.

 

It's doesn't matter if I'm a UAW member or not. Nothing I've said makes a difference one way or another. As for you Captain723, when you talk to me in a civil manner I will address your replies. Then again, why should I start now?

[Captain723]

I rest my case. He is secure but emotionally insecure, he stands nothing to gain with getting time back. His plant will still be operating in 4 years.

 

In 4 years Ford will still be trying to trim rolls at this rate. Every Profit Statement for the last 2 years, Ford has written off what it has cost to trim the rolls, last quarter alone was in the million's for buyouts. Now that will never be shown again on the statements.

 

It's doesn't matter if I'm a UAW member or not. Nothing I've said makes a difference one way or another. As for you Captain723, when you talk to me in a civil manner I will address your replies. Then again, why should I start now?

Your right you don't matter salaried fk...fk you and your 12 posts!! We have enough people on this thread selling their bullshit, we don't need another!! You and your overpaid ass should take a buy out!! Better yet I heard Visteon is hiring over paid and under educated Ford salaried workers!!

Edited January 26, 2008 by Captain723