SAME OLD BUYOUTS WILL GET FEW TAKERS

[skeptic]

How many of you think Ford will get large numbers to take the same buyout offers as before.My guess is there will be few takers.Ford negotiates a new contract that allows it to hire 20 percent of workers at reduced wages and benifits and yet is too stupid to offer buyouts people would want to take.

[The Unforgiven]

How many of you think Ford will get large numbers to take the same buyout offers as before.My guess is there will be few takers.Ford negotiates a new contract that allows it to hire 20 percent of workers at reduced wages and benifits and yet is too stupid to offer buyouts people would want to take.

 

Just curious...what kind of buyout would it take YOU to go? Enlighten us please. Perhaps someone in corporate HQ will see it and realize what they have been doing wrong.

[cobra8]

How many of you think Ford will get large numbers to take the same buyout offers as before.My guess is there will be few takers.Ford negotiates a new contract that allows it to hire 20 percent of workers at reduced wages and benifits and yet is too stupid to offer buyouts people would want to take.

 

In this article about 2/3's down Chuck Moore ( a director at the Detroit restructuring firm - Conway) agrees - few takers

 

 

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?

[whereswaldo]

How many of you think Ford will get large numbers to take the same buyout offers as before.My guess is there will be few takers.Ford negotiates a new contract that allows it to hire 20 percent of workers at reduced wages and benifits and yet is too stupid to offer buyouts people would want to take.

Ford will get those that are ready but werent a yr ago.AT ACH's... Trades...you may get some of the 35-45 yr guys for the 70K. High sen. cleaners/oilers/whatever else that have high sen. and will be quickly transferred to prod jobs, will also likely take it. My "guess" is that any buyouts at ACH will be of the 70K kind and a few 50/10. Nothing else appeals to those that are left. How many signed for reloads at Monroe ?? I think Dark said 3.... Since most of ACH is concentrated in SE Mich and N. Ohio, even Indy, I doubt the "horror" of moving will get many there to take a buyout for this reason alone. I will take a shot and say 15-20% take something,leaving what ? 4400-4900 left over ?? Then Ford will need to push buyouts at Ford facilities or a ton of $$ will be going to JSP. And you thought GEN was bad b-4 ?? Dont think people in Ford facilitites arent sweating over taking higher sen. people in.....and dont plan on going to Sterling/Raws as they are future IPS and Ford will want to take as few Ford ee's as possible so they can get those lower tier started there.

[skeptic]

Just curious...what kind of buyout would it take YOU to go? Enlighten us please. Perhaps someone in corporate HQ will see it and realize what they have been doing wrong.

Let me take the 140,000 offered to those 55 with 10 years service and keep my medical till Medicare kicks in at 65.Give me this and I'm gone.Hope some of you asses at the Glass House read this.What they would save by replacing me with a lower paid employee would more than pay my medical benifits till 65.Once Medicare begins drop all my Ford medical.Many people I've spoken to who are 55 with 10 years would leave if medical were included till 65.To give up your medical at the age you most need it is suicide.

Edited January 26, 2008 by skeptic

[Captain723]

Let me take the 140,000 offered to those 55 with 10 years service and keep my medical till Medicare kicks in at 65.Give me this and I'm gone.Hope some of you asses at the Glass House read this.

They read it and !! There were only 3 he said signed, I thoght it was buster...either way they have 30 days to decide if they want to go. I am guessing 40 will go!!

Ford motor does not care if ACH Ford employees leave. They will be happy with Ford employees leaving!! They will shove these Ford employees at ACH into Ford facilities.

Ford will get 10,000 employees take a package!! I think that it may be even bigger than that. Maybe 12000!! :shades:

[Brian502]

Let me take the 140,000 offered to those 55 with 10 years service and keep my medical till Medicare kicks in at 65.Give me this and I'm gone.Hope some of you asses at the Glass House read this.

 

I'd jump on that as well. Hell,I'd go for $100,000 if medical were included.

[cecilmeyer]

Just curious...what kind of buyout would it take YOU to go? Enlighten us please. Perhaps someone in corporate HQ will see it and realize what they have been doing wrong.

What do you mean by enlighten?You make it sound like The coporate leadership is doing something right?The person who made the comment about buyouts is correct.Offer something decent for people who have got some time but not 30.Maybe say whatever senority you have say 20 years you start collecting a 20 year pension right away.Then they could give you a much smaller lump sum.The money they would save by hiring someone at half the current top wage would be substantial.I know many people who jump on this offer including myself.My guess is Ford wants to offer something like this but the union would not okay it.Remember all buyouts have to be agreed upon buy both the Company and the Union.I have read many articles on how the union fights early retirements because of the loss of union dues.Just my opinion!

[sista]

I'd jump on that as well. Hell,I'd go for $100,000 if medical were included.

 

 

I like 5-10K per year of service, pension and medical

[fordsterling]

They read it and !! There were only 3 he said signed, I thoght it was buster...either way they have 30 days to decide if they want to go. I am guessing 40 will go!!

Ford motor does not care if ACH Ford employees leave. They will be happy with Ford employees leaving!! They will shove these Ford employees at ACH into Ford facilities.

Ford will get 10,000 employees take a package!! I think that it may be even bigger than that. Maybe 12000!! :shades:

 

 

Captain, usually when I read your posts I agree with your assessments(?) but in this case I do not see 10,000 people taking this buyout. I see JSP getting filled up and Ford being in the same mess with a bunch of employees getting paid to do nothing. Could you please explain your reasoning behind this?

[skeptic]

Captain, usually when I read your posts I agree with your assessments(?) but in this case I do not see 10,000 people taking this buyout. I see JSP getting filled up and Ford being in the same mess with a bunch of employees getting paid to do nothing. Could you please explain your reasoning behind this?

My estimate is 3000 to 4000 company wide will take this regurgitated buyout offer.The only improvement was to those with 30 years or more of service.What was offered to them amounts to 10 weeks of working pay.Why leave for 10 weeks of pay if you are in a good job and in good health.If Ford wants to hire new low wage employees they will have to do much better than these current buyouts.No bold thinking here.Just closer to bankruptcy.

Edited January 26, 2008 by skeptic

[justwishing]

Captain, usually when I read your posts I agree with your assessments(?) but in this case I do not see 10,000 people taking this buyout. I see JSP getting filled up and Ford being in the same mess with a bunch of employees getting paid to do nothing. Could you please explain your reasoning behind this?

Ford did not offer all the same packages at each plant. For instance, the Monroe plant has not been offered the 140,00 E-STEP buyout. Tulsa was offered the 7-7 program. Monroe has the TRIP program that obviously is not at the Ford plants themselves. I think that 50-60 people will take the buyout at Monroe, and they will probably get 10,000 people to sign up nationally. This will be enough to get all Ford employees out of ACH plants, moving them to Ford locations. Those at Edison, Wixom, and Atlanta will have to make a decision shortly or they will be in JSP, but drawing nothing. Ford does not care if they are in there drawing nothing. Last I checked on Friday, 21 employees had signed up for packages at the Monroe plant. They do still have the option of pulling their package though. Window doesn't close until 2/13. I have heard that the employees that sign up at the Ford facilities can't withdraw their applications once submitted. Does anyone know if this is true?

[Captain723]

What do you mean by enlighten?You make it sound like The coporate leadership is doing something right?The person who made the comment about buyouts is correct.Offer something decent for people who have got some time but not 30.Maybe say whatever senority you have say 20 years you start collecting a 20 year pension right away.Then they could give you a much smaller lump sum.The money they would save by hiring someone at half the current top wage would be substantial.I know many people who jump on this offer including myself.My guess is Ford wants to offer something like this but the union would not okay it.Remember all buyouts have to be agreed upon buy both the Company and the Union.I have read many articles on how the union fights early retirements because of the loss of union dues.Just my opinion!

The UAW has to pay for your benefits so wake the fk up not going to happen! What kind of Drugs are you on??

[Captain723]

Ford did not offer all the same packages at each plant. For instance, the Monroe plant has not been offered the 140,00 E-STEP buyout. Tulsa was offered the 7-7 program. Monroe has the TRIP program that obviously is not at the Ford plants themselves. I think that 50-60 people will take the buyout at Monroe, and they will probably get 10,000 people to sign up nationally. This will be enough to get all Ford employees out of ACH plants, moving them to Ford locations. Those at Edison, Wixom, and Atlanta will have to make a decision shortly or they will be in JSP, but drawing nothing. Ford does not care if they are in there drawing nothing. Last I checked on Friday, 21 employees had signed up for packages at the Monroe plant. They do still have the option of pulling their package though. Window doesn't close until 2/13. I have heard that the employees that sign up at the Ford facilities can't withdraw their applications once submitted. Does anyone know if this is true?

There will probably have more at Monroe sign....guessing 150 people. They can not force anyone to take a package. You have until the last day before you retire date to pull your name. That has not changed!!

[cobra8]

The UAW has to pay for your benefits so wake the fk up not going to happen! What kind of Drugs are you on??

 

Captain, I would be willing to bet a quarter, there is a new offer by shutdown.

[Critic]

They read it and !! There were only 3 he said signed, I thoght it was buster...either way they have 30 days to decide if they want to go. I am guessing 40 will go!!

Ford motor does not care if ACH Ford employees leave. They will be happy with Ford employees leaving!! They will shove these Ford employees at ACH into Ford facilities.

Ford will get 10,000 employees take a package!! I think that it may be even bigger than that. Maybe 12000!! :shades:

 

Ford is DOWNSIZING shrinking! The economy is going into the toilet as we speak, Inflation is rising.

Right now til Feb 13, Buyout offers are only for closed plants (4) / 1000 people. Then Company wide. IF your not sitting in a plant slated for closure this year, your not going anywhere.

 

No one wants to look at the possibility that "NO ONE will get placed INTO a Ford plant", certainly NOT trades. Ford wants 10000 hourly, 2000 Salary people gone now. There is not going to be a great migration of people into or out of Michigan. People like where they live, the thought of living in Michigan where those plants are is not a pretty thought. Every plant is running at <80% capacity now with the people they have. Ford sales will not return to even 2005 levels.

 

Your in an assy. plant; very very few will leave. Real Question is how many TEMP's are in an assy. plant? How long will they allow them to work there? They already screwed up by not showing the FORD workers they are Temp and clearing them out so potential JSP people see that there are opening's. So not taking a package means nothing to you. ACH options are this, Either take a package OR go to JSP. (5600 total Ford workers in ACH now). You end up in JSP you've given up the option of a package and now it's a dice roll. You will collect SUB money, but probably only for a few months if those plants show a need for workers. Then they will come to you with a job offer, you turn one down, you start sweating, because you will feel the next one you HAVE to take. You don't take the offer, no big deal, it was just a job and you wouldn't move to Michigan anyways. Stay in JSP until the money stops, get a job, with the chance of still going to FORD with each new offer they come to you with.

 

I think Ford will only let a temp go, when they have a committed person WILLING to transfer. Come April when they see that they had a take rate of just a few thousand, it will be another round again this year. Then that equals bad publicity, they can't shrink fast enough. Ford will not be getting Tier2 workers anytime soon with this package and that is what they want. Apr. they will not have commitments to leave. They will still have a lot of temps in the assy. plants and an over abundance of people to go into JSP. Even if Ford had no Temp's and every ACH person would move they still will have to many people on the roll's. Place every ACH person and then the low senority people in the assy. plants will be in JSP, and drawing a check for a long long time.

 

IT's just a rehash of old ideas once again. Take rate will probably be less than 4000 total this year. They really need to get rid of people aged 40-60 and 20-30 years service. Ford wants 20% Tier2 workers then they need to clear out over 20000+ people as soon as May. Then the stock price will go up, and they will just be at a size for 'potential' growth in the future, but that growth will only be at assy. plants. They will have gotten rid of all parts plants by the end of the year except for a couple that will just have 4 more years to live.

 

No, not many will be jumping on this offer this time. This isn't the roaring 90's, anymore. However once everything stabilizes, I sure would like one of those profit sharing checks! Let's hope I'm wrong.

[whereswaldo]

Just curious...what kind of buyout would it take YOU to go? Enlighten us please. Perhaps someone in corporate HQ will see it and realize what they have been doing wrong.

Seriously , for me, give me my pension, and offer healthcare to go along with the 140K. Then, SEE YA !!...Oh yeah they gotta throw in a round table with Captain723(got it right) and Wakeup....ah thats my cup of java.....lol

[skeptic]

Ford is DOWNSIZING shrinking! The economy is going into the toilet as we speak, Inflation is rising.

Right now til Feb 13, Buyout offers are only for closed plants (4) / 1000 people. Then Company wide. IF your not sitting in a plant slated for closure this year, your not going anywhere.

 

No one wants to look at the possibility that "NO ONE will get placed INTO a Ford plant", certainly NOT trades. Ford wants 10000 hourly, 2000 Salary people gone now. There is not going to be a great migration of people into or out of Michigan. People like where they live, the thought of living in Michigan where those plants are is not a pretty thought. Every plant is running at <80% capacity now with the people they have. Ford sales will not return to even 2005 levels.

 

Your in an assy. plant; very very few will leave. Real Question is how many TEMP's are in an assy. plant? How long will they allow them to work there? They already screwed up by not showing the FORD workers they are Temp and clearing them out so potential JSP people see that there are opening's. So not taking a package means nothing to you. ACH options are this, Either take a package OR go to JSP. (5600 total Ford workers in ACH now). You end up in JSP you've given up the option of a package and now it's a dice roll. You will collect SUB money, but probably only for a few months if those plants show a need for workers. Then they will come to you with a job offer, you turn one down, you start sweating, because you will feel the next one you HAVE to take. You don't take the offer, no big deal, it was just a job and you wouldn't move to Michigan anyways. Stay in JSP until the money stops, get a job, with the chance of still going to FORD with each new offer they come to you with.

 

I think Ford will only let a temp go, when they have a committed person WILLING to transfer. Come April when they see that they had a take rate of just a few thousand, it will be another round again this year. Then that equals bad publicity, they can't shrink fast enough. Ford will not be getting Tier2 workers anytime soon with this package and that is what they want. Apr. they will not have commitments to leave. They will still have a lot of temps in the assy. plants and an over abundance of people to go into JSP. Even if Ford had no Temp's and every ACH person would move they still will have to many people on the roll's. Place every ACH person and then the low senority people in the assy. plants will be in JSP, and drawing a check for a long long time.

 

IT's just a rehash of old ideas once again. Take rate will probably be less than 4000 total this year. They really need to get rid of people aged 40-60 and 20-30 years service. Ford wants 20% Tier2 workers then they need to clear out over 20000+ people as soon as May. Then the stock price will go up, and they will just be at a size for 'potential' growth in the future, but that growth will only be at assy. plants. They will have gotten rid of all parts plants by the end of the year except for a couple that will just have 4 more years to live.

 

No, not many will be jumping on this offer this time. This isn't the roaring 90's, anymore. However once everything stabilizes, I sure would like one of those profit sharing checks! Let's hope I'm wrong.

You are so right take rate will be very low.To offer the same packages in a worsening economy shows the total lack of insightful leadership at the top.The only reason Ford stock rose in the last week is investors saw the buyouts as an opportunity to bring in lower wage workers.Unless you offer something better few will leave.

[CSMJ]

If you dont like the buyouts then dont take one. but when theres a permanent layoff which there will be if theres not enough buyouts well see how many buyouts they get then forced or unforced because 11,000 are deemed lower wage jobs and Ford will fill them one way or the other.

[whereswaldo]

If you dont like the buyouts then dont take one. but when theres a permanent layoff which there will be if theres not enough buyouts well see how many buyouts they get then forced or unforced because 11,000 are deemed lower wage jobs and Ford will fill them one way or the other.

I won't !! If you think the take rate will be 70 % as you have said, all I can do is laugh. First,you'll be lucky to get 20% from ACH's. Like Cobra8 said, there could be another round of buyouts later this year. Remember last year when the argument for 35k was that this was it and likely wouldnt be another chance ? Ford NEEDS to have enough buyouts cuz layoffs arent going to change a thing. They'll just dump tons of $$ in JSP and still wont be able to hire newbies. Alan if your poop boys are listening, add VEBA to the 140K + pension if you got 30 yrs or more and you will clear out so many that you will have to pick who goes and who stays.

[skeptic]

If you dont like the buyouts then dont take one. but when theres a permanent layoff which there will be if theres not enough buyouts well see how many buyouts they get then forced or unforced because 11,000 are deemed lower wage jobs and Ford will fill them one way or the other.

Ford can't hire new low wage employees if people are on layoff.Layoffs solve nothing for Ford.Ford needs people to leave.People won't leave without a decent offer.

[fantasyfrank]

They read it and !! There were only 3 he said signed, I thoght it was buster...either way they have 30 days to decide if they want to go. I am guessing 40 will go!!

Ford motor does not care if ACH Ford employees leave. They will be happy with Ford employees leaving!! They will shove these Ford employees at ACH into Ford facilities.

Ford will get 10,000 employees take a package!! I think that it may be even bigger than that. Maybe 12000!! :shades:

Why do you say "Ford Motor does not care if ACH Ford employees leave"? A Ford worker at ACH is as much of a Ford worker at let's say... KTP. Dosen't matter if you work at ACH or not, a Ford worker is a Ford worker.

[Critic]

 

Nice cheery half smile. He's NOT talking to employee's.

1 year of AWESOME achievements. (only known accomplishment is renaming an existing car). Everything else was already in the pipeline before "he got $30 million for 1 year" from Ford Motor Co.

 

Every Lawyer will tell you:

 

THIS MAN DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST'S AT STAKE!

[Pumpmaster]

Ford can't hire new low wage employees if people are on layoff.Layoffs solve nothing for Ford.Ford needs people to leave.People won't leave without a decent offer.

 

OK, but what's "decent?" If you ask 10 people, you'll probably get 8 different answers.

 

Here's a suggestion: give the people from the 70's their lost time back, on condition that if they get it, they must retire.

 

How many people would that get, company-wide? I think that's a number the company could count on to go.

[Hard-Drivin' Man]

OK, but what's "decent?" If you ask 10 people, you'll probably get 8 different answers.

 

Here's a suggestion: give the people from the 70's their lost time back, on condition that if they get it, they must retire.

 

How many people would that get, company-wide? I think that's a number the company could count on to go.

 

Boo-Yeah!

Truer words were never spoken. Give us our time back, but just for retirement purposes, and we are GONE!

All I want is what I've got coming to me. All I want is my fair share. Ha Ha!

 

Seriously though, just throw us a freakin' bone. I've got 20 years in; If Ford would give us credit for our 20 plus years, with a "2/3 of 30" retirement offer, including healthcare until Medicare kicks in, then that would make it easy enough to go. Otherwise, you'd have to be crazy to go. It will be our jobs to stay and make Ford Motor pay for their transgressions. And pay, and pay, and pay...

 

So it's a REAL 20 year retirement offer, or nothing for me. There you go Ford, and I've already given you the snappy little acronym;-) REAL: Restitution Enabled And Liberated program.

 

Now, put that in your Pinto four-banger and smoke it.