Captain723 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hey I am not the one saying I hear this from Rouge or about Monroe or Tulsa.... you do...so unless you only have these talks with youself, you must have another person(s) somewhere...... I said I got the info from WHQ not Monroe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster6969 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 i know that the drivelines in monroe are working a butt load of overtime. maybe its for the float, but they have been working alot since that shit has been here. as for skill trades, they work all the time ( welder fixture repair 12 16 hours), boy im glad that i work in the driveline area. just last sunday, i got to work 16 hours because they needed parts. i think something was broke from the night before, and the trades could not fix it. this shit happens all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster6969 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I said I got the info from WHQ not Monroe dont worry Capt, u are right. what you read was true. the only people that get pissed at monroe are trades that dont get to work MORE overtime. they all get it. i know some of them that are knocking down 150,00+ a year. but if the company schedules one shift over another, well lets just say THEMS SOME FIGHTIN WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shades: :shades: :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 dont worry Capt, u are right. what you read was true. the only people that get pissed at monroe are trades that dont get to work MORE overtime. they all get it. i know some of them that are knocking down 150,00+ a year. but if the company schedules one shift over another, well lets just say THEMS SOME FIGHTIN WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shades: :shades: :shades: They let production work over 12 hrs per day?? What trade works and knocks down over 150k? Electrician? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 You wouldn't if it was in the contract and your brothers agreed to it, and because it was in the language you would have no case for age discrimination. I think that the "Majority" share the opinion that people that are eligable to retire and refuse are a problem when thinking of their own job security. It is the same premise as what was used to sell out ACH and trades. People are selfish and worry about their selves first. The people that sign up this time and don't change their minds before the window closes will be taken off rolls regardless, if it was in the contract the same could happen to those with 30 years. If it was proposed see if your brothers won't sell you out for $3,000, if it was in the contract we just settled it would already be law! I did vote against it but you see how that went! LOL... yer kidding, right? No case for age discrimination as long as the Majority agreed to it and got it in the contract... it would be law? Heck, after we get rid of the old farts, let's start on the wimmens, then we can go after any other group of folk... as long as they aren't in "OUR MAJORITY." Mebbe that is why our forefathers looked hard at Republic versus Democracy and opted for a Republic. To give you a heads up, Republic means to govern by rules of law for all. Democracy means to rule by majority. Wisely, our country runs as a Republic... where sexism, religion, racism, majorities and facism cannot rule as they have in other countries. "When they came for the old farts, I did nothing... because I'm not an old fart. When they came for those with bucked teeth, I did nothing... because my teeth are straight. Now they are coming for those with an IQ of a box of rocks, I won't d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 LOL... yer kidding, right? No case for age discrimination as long as the Majority agreed to it and got it in the contract... it would be law? Heck, after we get rid of the old farts, let's start on the wimmens, then we can go after any other group of folk... as long as they aren't in "OUR MAJORITY." Mebbe that is why our forefathers looked hard at Republic versus Democracy and opted for a Republic. To give you a heads up, Republic means to govern by rules of law for all. Democracy means to rule by majority. Wisely, our country runs as a Republic... where sexism, religion, racism, majorities and facism cannot rule as they have in other countries. "When they came for the old farts, I did nothing... because I'm not an old fart. When they came for those with bucked teeth, I did nothing... because my teeth are straight. Now they are coming for those with an IQ of a box of rocks, I won't d My initial reaction when suggesting it was one of sarcasim, and then Twincam Harley made the comment it will always be as it is, and so I replied to show him and now you that nothing is set in stone! I posted this quote just before we were asked for a ratification vote n the national contract, and it still holds true! It is still true that the Majority will shape our contract and our future, so it is imortant that the senior members don't mistreat the new hires because some day they will make up a sigificant number of members. Our majority did let them get dragged away and there was nothing that I could do to stop it. Just another way to segregate employees. Every time I see one of these deals, I remember an old story that goes something like this------>We are defeated by concessions, and as the management go down the list of employees, they call out for the New hires to show themselves so as they can take away their compensation. They cry for help, but all ignore them and and go about their business. Since I am not a new hire, I too hide!!!! A week later, they call for the ACH plants. Everyone who is not of an ACH employee decent again ignores it hoping they will just go away including me, they drag them away while I just watch and hide; and the world continues going like it always does. Anyway, within the next 6 months, they come for the the skilled trades, and finally attacking further benefits, pensions, and of course wages for active employee's. I did not fit any of those descriptions, so I continue to hide!!!! Finally, they walk down the road and call for management!!!!!! I scream for help, but guess what!!! Nobody is left, I let them all be taken away without uttering a sound, hoping they would never get to me. In essence, I have allowed my myself no help, because I gave no help. This is exactly why I resist consessions, that are aimed at things that I do not believe in myself. If we allow them to do it just cause we do not fit the bill, they will eventually get to us!!!!!!!!!!!! Just as the government separates us to fight amongst ourselves, so does Ford. You must learn, then inform everyone you can of what it is. Sooner or later, the employees will wake up. Let us all hope they wake up, BEFORE everyone is pulled away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbldbxorntnap Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hang on there, chief. Where did I say I can't work with a lower paid worker? I just said that the ACH employees will bump out the TFT's because they are permanent employees. The first "T" in TFT stands for Temp. And, technically, all production workers are lower paid than me (and most of the tradesmen to boot). I have no problem working with them. I have a problem when their stupidity is what caused the machine to break, then lying about it. Your right about us line people, most of the time doing something stupid then trying to cover it up lol, but what about the rest of the time where logic wasn't programmed right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I won't !! If you think the take rate will be 70 % as you have said, all I can do is laugh. First,you'll be lucky to get 20% from ACH's. Like Cobra8 said, there could be another round of buyouts later this year. Remember last year when the argument for 35k was that this was it and likely wouldnt be another chance ? Ford NEEDS to have enough buyouts cuz layoffs arent going to change a thing. They'll just dump tons of $$ in JSP and still wont be able to hire newbies. Alan if your poop boys are listening, add VEBA to the 140K + pension if you got 30 yrs or more and you will clear out so many that you will have to pick who goes and who stays. You were told MONTHS ago by me, that these "buyouts" were NOT going to be different from the "buyouts" that were offered b4. Why do you think you need to rehash this topic now and once again act like you are worth more than the people who took previous offers? Do you think we should go back and give all of those folks who took the previous offer an additional check because we have decided to give the current employees a sweeter deal? I dont think it would be fair to anyone to offer a different package today without the inclusion of the folks who were part of the original programs. You union people who are supposed to be all about solidarity, should be demanding equality rather than trying to tell management that you are somehow better than the people who previously accepted our packages, and you need more compensation than they got. I say, shame on the whole lot of you who think you are worth more than the people who took the previous "buyout". I also say, take the existing offer, if one is available to you, or stay where you are. It doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) You were told MONTHS ago by me, that these "buyouts" were NOT going to be different from the "buyouts" that were offered b4. Why do you think you need to rehash this topic now and once again act like you are worth more than the people who took previous offers? Do you think we should go back and give all of those folks who took the previous offer an additional check because we have decided to give the current employees a sweeter deal? I dont think it would be fair to anyone to offer a different package today without the inclusion of the folks who were part of the original programs. You union people who are supposed to be all about solidarity, should be demanding equality rather than trying to tell management that you are somehow better than the people who previously accepted our packages, and you need more compensation than they got. I say, shame on the whole lot of you who think you are worth more than the people who took the previous "buyout". I also say, take the existing offer, if one is available to you, or stay where you are. It doesn't really matter. Worth has nothing to do with why the offers remain the same, Ford is targeting the senior employees to retain a young work force. They have offered everyone the same as before to reduce critisism for targeted buyouts, while if they can get additional takers with the old offers it is a bonus on their part because it brings them closer to hiring low teir replacements. They are not expecting to, or do they want a mass exodus from the young guys who care about their job and want to make a difference. I think they have been very intelligent on reducing liabilities, and retaining their target employ to this point! Edited January 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennesseepowerstroke Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I know a perfect foolproof way to get people with 30+ years out the door. For every year past 30, deduct $50 from their monthly pension check. Watch the mass exodus. Be hard to call this foolproof. Looks like an age discrimation lawsuit to me. Edited January 28, 2008 by Tennesseepowerstroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 My initial reaction when suggesting it was one of sarcasim, and then Twincam Harley made the comment it will always be as it is, and so I replied to show him and now you that nothing is set in stone! I posted this quote just before we were asked for a ratification vote n the national contract, and it still holds true! It is still true that the Majority will shape our contract and our future, so it is imortant that the senior members don't mistreat the new hires because some day they will make up a sigificant number of members. Our majority did let them get dragged away and there was nothing that I could do to stop it. Twincam's comment was in reaction to your "change the wording to mandatory 30 and out" post. Twincam is right, not you or anyone else will dictate when someone "must" leave based solely on amount of years in. This is a federal law that neither you nor any 'majority' will change. It is set in stone and will always be so. There were many whom felt as you, and attempted to implant it into national negotiations. _ALL_ locals that were faced with this resolution laughed it out of committee. It never had a chance to even come to the local floor for a local vote, let alone making it to the national level. Does it not seem funny to you that while management was whispering into young hourly ears that 'the reason you will be laid-off is because the old farts are selfish and won't retire', Ford tried to raise retirement eligibility from 30 to 35 years? Divide and conquer has always been Fords' mission. So sad the young are drinking the kool-aid. Agreed, the majority will shape contracts... limited only by those laws that are set in stone and will always be so. If these bedrock laws were to ever be changed, then this country has truly lost its' way on a degrading path to facism. Personally, I have faith this will never happen. Main reason being there is a national trend of encouraging people to forgo retirement and work longer. To retire early is a drain on the national fabric that is reflective of selfishness. Also agreed that senior members shouldn't mistreat new hires, although this is a pointless statement. I don't see where any senior member is mis-treating a new hire. In fact, I see where seniors are more than willing to talk and show the younger new hires what they have learned. If you were to survey the oldsters, you'll find that by a clear majority they were deadset against two-tier wages. What I do see more and more is where the new hires listen to management when they whisper that they 'shouldn't listen to the old farts because they will just get you into trouble.' So, the new hires drink the Ford kool-aid and ignore anything the learned tell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Twincam's comment was in reaction to your "change the wording to mandatory 30 and out" post. in. I was being sarcastic, maybe I should have been more clear! Agreed, the majority will shape contracts... limited only by those laws that are set in stone and will always be so. If these bedrock laws were to ever be changed, then this country has truly lost its' way on a degrading path to facism. Personally, I have faith this will never happen. Main reason being there is a national trend of encouraging people to forgo retirement and work longer. To retire early is a drain on the national fabric that is reflective of selfishness.Watch it now not even legislation is set in stone, don't you remember the RTW laws in some states to sidestep the National Labor Relation Act, or Bush's attempt to freeze pensions nationwide to allow companies to sidestep their contractual obligations to it's employees. Our company and the heads of all major industries have a powerful lobby, it's incumbent upon all of us as union members to be aware and stop this B.S. legislation by treatening our politicians with their office! I actually do respect seniority and fair is fair, but we all know what the company's agenda is. From this point it is up to us to make edjucated guesses as to what they are planning and stop what will be harmful to us as a company 1st, and as a union 2nd! Edited January 28, 2008 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 You were told MONTHS ago by me, that these "buyouts" were NOT going to be different from the "buyouts" that were offered b4. And you've been proven wrong, troll. The 30 and out HAVE been increased. And if you'd be able to digest more than what that little brain of yours can handle, you'd see my response to someone asking what it would take for us to go. Thats all. Now I know why your side has had their healthcare cut ....cuz there is no cure for what you got. Idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I was being sarcastic, maybe I should have been more clear! Perhaps, but I was responding to your second post that espoused the same theme. Perhaps you meant that post to be sarcastic as well. The problem is this mindset is very prevelant with younger folk. This kind of thinking needs to be confronted everytime it rears its' fascist head. The danger is that to say nothing will let it grow. Watch it now not even legislation is set in stone, don't you remember the RTW laws in some states to sidestep the National Labor Relation Act, or Bush's attempt to freeze pensions nationwide to allow companies to sidestep their contractual obligations to it's employees. Our company and the heads of all major industries have a powerful lobby, it's incumbent upon all of us as union members to be aware and stop this B.S. legislation by treatening our politicians with their office! I actually do respect seniority and fair is fair, but we all know what the company's agenda is. From this point it is up to us to make edjucated guesses as to what they are planning and stop what will be harmful to us as a company 1st, and as a union 2nd! True, legislation is not set in stone. Legislated laws are constantly tested as to their validity on their way to becoming bedrock law. RTW and NLRA are not bedrock law as of yet. They are being tested as we speak. Also, you see where Bushs' attempt has gone. Didn't even make it to second base. Age discrimination has been tested time and time again, many times all the way to the Supreme Court. It has stood the numerous attempts to to sully it. It is bedrock law. It is set in stone. Even if the majority of UAW members were to put on swastikas and worked hard to end this law or even to bypass it it in some way, they need to come to this obvious reality. At tops, say you have the entire UAW press it... what is that, about 300K? They'll be going up against a well informed electorate of at least 60 million old farts. I think you will be hard pressed to name a single legislator that will side with such a fascist UAW. Yep, I've seen a few of your other posts as to what you feel the company aganda is... target the old farts to keep the young ones whom care... blah, blah, blah. Just more of the same old old fart bashing. True, Ford is targeting the old farts to accept a buyout, but I highly doubt it is for the reasons your mindset dictates. Logically, they are targeting the old farts for the very simple fact that this is the group most likely to accept. Ford cares little to none for your prejudices and in fact, may well be rethinking the strategy they set in motion. A hint to you... is your plant _really_ running better since all the old farts left? Lastly for today, furious... I do believe very deeply that you are truly a man of honor and of great potential for strong UAW leadership. I've read many of your posts of the past that indicate so. My hope is that you further exhibit only those admirable characteristics you hold. Work hard to keep _all_ of us, the old..the young.. the different, as one strong union. That is where our strength will lay. Resist the temptation to denigrate and belittle thru prejudices. There are too many company rats on these forums that do so already. Say only those things you are proud to say... and never regret later. Walk TALL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 True, legislation is not set in stone. Legislated laws are constantly tested as to their validity on their way to becoming bedrock law. RTW and NLRA are not bedrock law as of yet. They are being tested as we speak. Also, you see where Bushs' attempt has gone. Didn't even make it to second base. Age discrimination has been tested time and time again, many times all the way to the Supreme Court. It has stood the numerous attempts to to sully it. It is bedrock law. It is set in stone. Even if the majority of UAW members were to put on swastikas and worked hard to end this law or even to bypass it it in some way, they need to come to this obvious reality. At tops, say you have the entire UAW press it... what is that, about 300K? They'll be going up against a well informed electorate of at least 60 million old farts. I think you will be hard pressed to name a single legislator that will side with such a fascist UAW. Yep, I've seen a few of your other posts as to what you feel the company aganda is... target the old farts to keep the young ones whom care... blah, blah, blah. Just more of the same old old fart bashing. True, Ford is targeting the old farts to accept a buyout, but I highly doubt it is for the reasons your mindset dictates. Logically, they are targeting the old farts for the very simple fact that this is the group most likely to accept. Ford cares little to none for your prejudices and in fact, may well be rethinking the strategy they set in motion. A hint to you... is your plant _really_ running better since all the old farts left? Lastly for today, furious... I do believe very deeply that you are truly a man of honor and of great potential for strong UAW leadership. I've read many of your posts of the past that indicate so. My hope is that you further exhibit only those admirable characteristics you hold. Work hard to keep _all_ of us, the old..the young.. the different, as one strong union. That is where our strength will lay. Resist the temptation to denigrate and belittle thru prejudices. There are too many company rats on these forums that do so already. Say only those things you are proud to say... and never regret later. Walk TALL! I'm a work in progress and thanks for the pat on the back, although I'm just a consiensious observer and have no intention of running for anything. I just want reality to prevail. I also agree the company thinks the young are more plyable and easier to ccontrol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 ( welder fixture repair 12 16 hours) Welder Fixture Repair is not a trade. It's a bunch of scabs that cobble the machines back together to keep it running, thus creating more problems than they are trying to fix. By sucking the foreman's asses, they get overtime. You are correct about one thing, tho. Production in the drivelines get all the overtime they can handle. The core trades barely get any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Your right about us line people, most of the time doing something stupid then trying to cover it up lol, but what about the rest of the time where logic wasn't programmed right? You mean when we don't dummy-proof the line enough for the dummies that run them? Ever heard of common sense? Oh, your from Norfolk. Guess not. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 What trade works and knocks down over 150k? Electrician? The only "trade" that breaks 100k a year is Welder Repair. But, I refuse to get on my knees and scab for overtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpmaster Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 And you've been proven wrong, troll. The 30 and out HAVE been increased. And if you'd be able to digest more than what that little brain of yours can handle, you'd see my response to someone asking what it would take for us to go. Thats all. Now I know why your side has had their healthcare cut ....cuz there is no cure for what you got. Idiot. :hysterical: PWND! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbldbxorntnap Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 You mean when we don't dummy-proof the line enough for the dummies that run them? Ever heard of common sense? Oh, your from Norfolk. Guess not. :shades: No I'm talking about when the Kawasaki goes hay wired and the electricians stand around with deer in the headlamps look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANTASTICFORD Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 No I'm talking about when the Kawasaki goes hay wired and the electricians stand around with deer in the headlamps look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 No I'm talking about when the Kawasaki goes hay wired and the electricians stand around with deer in the headlamps look. Robots do the same motions every cycle of the program. If something messes up, look to the nearest operator and examine the part they put into the jig. You just found the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Welder Fixture Repair is not a trade. It's a bunch of scabs that cobble the machines back together to keep it running, thus creating more problems than they are trying to fix. By sucking the foreman's asses, they get overtime. You are correct about one thing, tho. Production in the drivelines get all the overtime they can handle. The core trades barely get any. Maybe instead of buying them christmas gifts you should have learned how to suck some ass!! I really do not see the difference....buying christmas gift...sucking ass?? Sounds like a :kissass: to me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 The only "trade" that breaks 100k a year is Welder Repair. But, I refuse to get on my knees and scab for overtime. You but a christmas gift for your supervisor and a non ford product instead....why don't you help Ford out an take a buy out you hypocrit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 You mean when we don't dummy-proof the line enough for the dummies that run them? Ever heard of common sense? Oh, your from Norfolk. Guess not. :shades: Were you hired off the street as a trades person?? You sound like you would make a good supervisor...you would fit right in buying a non ford!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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