2009 Acura RL

[Deanh]

Its the people that post it that rarely read it. No need to quote it again either, that's as annoying as someone quoting the same photos over and over again.... Still does not list the split during inclement weather, which is not 100% to any one wheel, only if you are driving it very hard, which is not as fun as it sounds. I've driven plenty of them. I used to take them, including type-s models, home all the time. Funny enough, I still think any BMW handles better, even a base 525. Don't read too much into long winded sales hype. Its a fucking press release. Drive one sometime. This is also the 'upgraded' version that is not available yet, not the curent RL that has soured on the market. It's still going to do nothing to boost sales in it's market segment, the market wants BMW's and MB's and the Infinity M which is seeing a major boost in sales with its restyle. The rebadged Honda Legend is just not an attractive package to American luxury sport sedan buyers. They need to change to a V8 and a RWD platform, but Honda does not spend money on such things, only re-wrapping the same handful of platforms over and over. This is also a big PR response to criticism for all the reasons and that the SH-AWD still didn't make the car sporty enough before.

 

" This is part of the reason why traditional AWD systems typically lack the more nimble feel of the best two-wheel drive systems."

 

It's a lot of excuses used to distance itself from being a FWD platform as much as possible, yet the competitor's RWD products are still superior all said and done as far as driving satisfaction and overall handling ability, let alone sales.

 

How many SH-AWD Acura RL's have YOU driven?

I owned an Acura CL coupe with the hot rodded S engine....no need for a V8...engine was fantastic...as for the FWD it DID suck, IMO FWD just doesn't cut the mustard when HP gets over the 250ish mark, the CL was 300 I think ( been a while ) steering was numb, torque steer was not that bad but obvious, but the scream of the V6 when the Vtec kicked in was enough to make someone smile....as for AWD, easy answer...never...So Cal its really not a necessity...I see AWD cars as a band-aid ( albeit from what i read about Audi high performance cars ) to bring inherrant FWD like handling issues closer to that of RWD. ( Snow belts excluded of course....NO_ONE sane would be able to say a RWD handles in inclements as solidly as AWD )

[kevinb120]

Taurus/X uses the Ford system now.

[Deanh]

So, some claim that SH-AWD is simplistic. As is.....

 

Anyway, let's look at some reviews.

 

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/acura_awd.htm

 

"Super Handling All-Wheel Drive" is a noteworthy advance over competitive products.

 

Hailed in engineering circles as a breakthrough development in all-wheel drive systems, SH-AWD features what Acura chief engineer Shiyouji Tokushima calls "Direct Yaw Control," also known as Torque Vectoring. In fact, the term "torque vectoring" is gaining popularity when describing this kind of technology, and other manufacturers are now looking to develop similar systems.

Note their summation when compared to the Lexus, Audi, BWM, Mercedes....

 

All of the competitive vehicles performed acceptably well on the purpose-designed tracks, and better than a comparable front or rear-wheel drive vehicle would (except for the Lexus GS 300, which did not flatter itself on the circular ice track). However, the Acura vehicles were distinguished by the smoothness of their operation, and their ability to maintain steering response in several situations where the competition had lost control.

 

It was noted that the all-wheel drive and stability systems on the competitive vehicles tended to intervene more abruptly and severely than the Acura vehicles. In comparison, the operation of the SH-AWD system and VSA was barely perceptible (a good thing!), and enabled corners to be taken on very slick surfaces without drama. Furthermore, some of those corners could be taken comfortably at twice the speed of the competition, although driving experience was a factor in achieving this level of performance.

in everyday driving, on wet, dry and icy conditions, the torque vectoring properties of Acura's SH-AWD have discernable advantages in handling and performance.

Hey, I like the old car. ( clean understated and elegant )..but this thread seems to have become a bitch session about something OTHER than what I consider regressive styling...and FYI...all of the superiority quotes you are posting sure haven't help sales........Acura makes a great car....but their stylistic design has been leaviing a lot to be desired lately....

[kevinb120]

I owned an Acura CL coupe with the hot rodded S engine....no need for a V8...engine was fantastic...as for the FWD it DID suck, IMO FWD just doesn't cut the mustard when HP gets over the 250ish mark, the CL was 300 I think ( been a while ) steering was numb, torque steer was not that bad but obvious, but the scream of the V6 when the Vtec kicked in was enough to make someone smile....as for AWD, easy answer...never...So Cal its really not a necessity...I see AWD cars as a band-aid ( albeit from what i read about Audi high performance cars ) to bring inherrant FWD like handling issues closer to that of RWD. ( Snow belts excluded of course....NO_ONE sane would be able to say a RWD handles in inclements as solidly as AWD )

 

The older TL/CL and RL were some of Acuras best cars. In its time in the market, were much better then the curent re-badges from the Euro Accord, Honda Legend, and the US Accord. When the Accord was slightly revised in 06, the only reason to buy a TL is if you wanted it to say TL on the back for $9000 extra. I am still dumbfounded as to why they never continued the CL on the Accord coupe, Honda's best automobile. Its shape is conductive to an easy reskin to something pretty sharp looking, also missing from Lexus altogether and only having the G to compete with. Not sure how well it would work with the new styling of the Accord though.

 

The sucess of the G(as when the original TL/RL were around Infinity's looked outright bizzare), and Lexus having 3 sedans on the same radar as TL shoppers have really wrung the model's neck. Not to mention BMW's with free maintainence and great options in the 3 series, and MB cleaning up the C-class from 05 up didn't help either. A CL coupe at say 36k/38k nav would of probably sold quite well. Acura is stuck in the expensive-honda perception. Even though simillar MB/BMW/Lexus products are more expensive, most are leased and with low residuals on luxury imports, people will pay the extra $100/month for the percieved status of the TL's competitiors.

 

The TL is the bread an butter car for Acura. Most buyers are ones that stretch into the car heavilly discounted to get basically the cheapest 'psudo-luxury' car they can afford. Cross-shopping customers often bump themselves into BMW/Lexus products, and enthusiasts that have the G on the list dollar-for-dollar(although an AWD G35 is less then a TL), and go drive it never come back. The RL at $50k simply has too many competitors that are better, both in perception and actuality.

Edited February 7, 2008 by kevinb120

[CarShark]

Not even the Honda fanboys like this car. I went to vtec.net. Anarchy. Threads about the new RL include titles such as "My Eyes Are Soiled!", and "*Urp* Sorry, just threw up in my mouth a little bit...". Those are the nicer ones. Between this and the Pilot concept, I've never seen such vitriol directed towards a fansite's designers. Not even at BMW's. You wanna talk about "The end is nigh"'? The Hyundai Genesis has come up, too. And after seeing those photos, so has my lunch.

[Deanh]

The older TL/CL and RL were some of Acuras best cars. In its time in the market, were much better then the curent re-badges from the Euro Accord, Honda Legend, and the US Accord. When the Accord was slightly revised in 06, the only reason to buy a TL is if you wanted it to say TL on the back for $9000 extra. I am still dumbfounded as to why they never continued the CL on the Accord coupe, Honda's best automobile. Its shape is conductive to an easy reskin to something pretty sharp looking, also missing from Lexus altogether and only having the G to compete with. Not sure how well it would work with the new styling of the Accord though.

 

The sucess of the G(as when the original TL/RL were around Infinity's looked outright bizzare), and Lexus having 3 sedans on the same radar as TL shoppers have really wrung the model's neck. Not to mention BMW's with free maintainence and great options in the 3 series, and MB cleaning up the C-class from 05 up didn't help either. A CL coupe at say 36k/38k nav would of probably sold quite well. Acura is stuck in the expensive-honda perception. Even though simillar MB/BMW/Lexus products are more expensive, most are leased and with low residuals on luxury imports, people will pay the extra $100/month for the percieved status of the TL's competitiors.

I see the CL coupes on the road all the time...styling STILL looks good...a true sign of good design is aging well....MOST cars don't........

[macattak1]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/acura-rl.html

 

Looks more like a 1998 Grand Prix than anything that should be wearing an Acura badge. WTF is wrong with Acura these days?

 

Accura sure has lost its way.

They must be kicking themselves.

 

Peace and Blessings

[kevinb120]

I see the CL coupes on the road all the time...styling STILL looks good...a true sign of good design is aging well....MOST cars don't........

 

 

FWD or not, I still like them alot. It's an intangible overall presentation that can not be explained by cut-and-pasting sales literature or saying it has some dumb shit like LED headlights so it MUST be great. I am not one to bash Honda car for car as there ARE ones I like, just like any other maker. I see and drive a lot of stuff and in context as to where my theoretical dollars would be going each 'type' of car at a price point has one that shines. Same reason I really liked the original RL, FWD or not. At the time look at other Ifinitis like the quirky Q, goofy looking Lexus products and completely unreliable German cars of the late 90's. The RL had that kinda copycat but not quite look to it that had just the right touch of Jaguar to separate it from the pack.

 

There was no G35/37 at the time, the CL was a cool friggin car, and came in Type S trim in colors like metalic blue and copper. The TL right now is an also-ran deluxe. Right now the mid 30's Japanese luxury car is the G for those who want sport and the ES for those that want cush(the IS is for the how-fucking-dumb-can-I-be for buying a 40k 4cyl compact crowd)...

Edited February 7, 2008 by kevinb120

[Sixt9coug]

In its time in the market, were much better then the curent re-badges from the Euro Accord, Honda Legend, and the US Accord.

 

 

But it will work for Ford!!!!!!!

 

[kevinb120]

But it will work for Ford!!!!!!!

 

 

Ford doesn't sell a rebadge of the Honda Legend that I know of?? Plus, this is the literal version of a re-badge. At at the $50K mark, you're talking an entirely different clientele.

 

 

 

Remember, I sold them(I didn't tell people the G was better when I was working there, duh), shoppers of the RL(as most luxury buyers will drive EVERYTHING in the same price range) were the ones that bitched about it the most. When I went there I thought it would be gravy, but the luster wears off of those cars completely in the first week you spend all day around them. And after a few months of managers who just give them away under invoice every fucking time(most were internet shoppers who never even started negotiating above invoice), it was time to leave the whorehouse. The Lexus dealer next door didn't help either, they make a killing there.

Edited February 7, 2008 by kevinb120

[Sixt9coug]

I know i know. its just Fords luck that Honda already attempted and failed at importing a European model for a US mid luxury brand at a price premium.

 

Thanks for saving Ford the money Honda. We owe you a Coke.

[timmm55]

Man....that's UGLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kevinb120]

Man....that's UGLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well I hate the the Bangle styled 5-series, but customers will take even the most basic 530 every time. And the new Infiniti M is outstanding, even with just the 6-cyl. The boringness of the new GS interior is actually giving the M a boost as well. It went from fugly to gorgeous as fast as the Avalanche did with one restyle(the Infiniti M).

Edited February 9, 2008 by kevinb120

[Michael Reynolds]

Copying and pasting a press release doesn't do much of anything to further your credibility around here. Of course it's going to sound all warm and fuzzy, Acura released it. That blurb did nothing to further SH-AWDs credibility.

 

Speaking of AWD systems etc, judging from instrumented testing AWD may/may not be a match for a properly engineered RWD chassis. Especially when you are dealing with a system that is reactive. Unless these vehicles are being tracked, which I doubt someone would do with an RL, these differences are virtually imperceptible to the novice driver. Even if the RL were taken out on a track, judging from very soundly engineered RWD cars (i.e. BMW), it would seem that the handling threshold would be much lower having to slow the vehicle due to the on demand AWD system.

[guesswhoscomingtodinner]

Copying and pasting a press release doesn't do much of anything to further your credibility around here. Of course it's going to sound all warm and fuzzy, Acura released it. That blurb did nothing to further SH-AWDs credibility.

 

Speaking of AWD systems etc, judging from instrumented testing AWD may/may not be a match for a properly engineered RWD chassis. Especially when you are dealing with a system that is reactive. Unless these vehicles are being tracked, which I doubt someone would do with an RL, these differences are virtually imperceptible to the novice driver. Even if the RL were taken out on a track, judging from very soundly engineered RWD cars (i.e. BMW), it would seem that the handling threshold would be much lower having to slow the vehicle due to the on demand AWD system.

 

 

First, the Acura AWD is not "on demand" as you say, and I guess you missed this little tid bit.

 

It was noted that the all-wheel drive and stability systems on the competitive vehicles tended to intervene more abruptly and severely than the Acura vehicles. In comparison, the operation of the SH-AWD system and VSA was barely perceptible (a good thing!), and enabled corners to be taken on very slick surfaces without drama. Furthermore, some of those corners could be taken comfortably at twice the speed of the competition, although driving experience was a factor in achieving this level of performance.

[LincolnFan]

So why are they still selling Acuras? They have been nothing but massive flops and ugly shit for a long while.

 

Honda, seriously, shutdown the brand.

[Michael Reynolds]

First, the Acura AWD is not "on demand" as you say, and I guess you missed this little tid bit.

 

It was noted that the all-wheel drive and stability systems on the competitive vehicles tended to intervene more abruptly and severely than the Acura vehicles. In comparison, the operation of the SH-AWD system and VSA was barely perceptible (a good thing!), and enabled corners to be taken on very slick surfaces without drama. Furthermore, some of those corners could be taken comfortably at twice the speed of the competition, although driving experience was a factor in achieving this level of performance.

 

Umm, yeah. That doesn't indicate that the AWD system isn't on demand. In fact if you re-read this snippet:

 

all-wheel drive and stability systems on the competitive vehicles tended to intervene more abruptly and severely than the Acura vehicles

 

Key word being intervene.

[guesswhoscomingtodinner]

Umm, yeah. That doesn't indicate that the AWD system isn't on demand. In fact if you re-read this snippet:

 

all-wheel drive and stability systems on the competitive vehicles tended to intervene more abruptly and severely than the Acura vehicles

 

Key word being intervene.

 

 

What Luxury cars don't have for instance ABS systems that intervene?

[kevinb120]

Profit to Honda is enormous per unit, regardless of what the dealer sells them for. Look at the price of a TL versus the same-equipped Accord. Take Lincoln sales #'s and imagine if they were all Excursions. The RSX was a popular seller but at low margin. In lieu of upgrading it they simply axed it as it didn't make money. Just band aid it enough as needed and continue to make products, not innovate. Lexus has re-invented itself and its products(its ironic to look at the development dolars in Lexus when Toy just dumps the same old stuff on the market) multiple times (as well as Infiniti) and the brand makes money hand over fist with both aproaches. Honda treats Acura like it's re-badged Hondas and the market has taken notice.

 

Being that some people will buy Hondas no matter what they look like or what else is out there, Acura will always have customers, they just aren't getting conquest ones with the current line. Honda does take a Mercury-esque aproach to Acura. Problem is timing now. Infinity and Lexus had invested in new RWD(or other heavilly reworked) platforms years ago and the legacy costs are now absorbed, leaving them with products that can lure customers away from European cars. Honda never spent the bucks.

[timmm55]

Well I hate the the Bangle styled 5-series, but customers will take even the most basic 530 every time.

 

I prefer the previous BMWs too. It looks like Acura (and the new Honda Accord) are aping the new uglier BMWs.....but manage to look even worse. Thankfully the Lincoln MKS is more traditional Lincoln/Lexus looking.

[Michael Reynolds]

What Luxury cars don't have for instance ABS systems that intervene?

 

 

We are talking about AWD systems not ABS. Did you or did you not mention that SH-AWD was on demand?

 

Furthermore, where in any of my posts did I mention anything about other systems not being re-active. I merely stated that unless you are dealing with weather conditions that are less than ideal, an aggressively engineered RWD vehicle should handle a bit better than an AWD system that has to sense slippage (causing the driver to attack driving conditions slower). Where are you pulling this ABS BS from.

 

Furthermore Torsen based Quattro systems work pretty damn well. Hence the reason behind my statements a few pages back that SH-AWD and how it was over-hyped to a degree.

Edited February 7, 2008 by Michael Reynolds

[Watchdevil]

The RL looks like it is getting fucked by a BMW in the rear..

[range]

What do they say that it can do that it can't do?

 

 

You ask what did Honda say about the Ridgeling? Glad you asked.

 

From the horse's mouth ...

 

HONDA: "The Ridgeline is built to take punishment. The 5,000-lb. towing capacity and 1,550-lb. total payload capacity make small work of big jobs. Its strength comes from an integrated closed-box frame with unit-body construction and powerful, 247-hp, V-6 engine. The Ridgeline also lays claim to heavy-duty agility, efficiency and a big dose of durability. It's all truck, and all Honda."

 

 

HONDA CLAIM "It's all truck, and all Honda."

 

REALITY CHECK All truck? Really? Which part of the minivan platform is ALL TRUCK?

 

 

HONDA CLAIM "The Ridgeline is built to take punishment."

HONDA CLAIM "The Ridgeline also lays claim to heavy-duty agility, efficiency and a big dose of durability."

 

REALITY CHECK - Yea right, we've all read about this "heavy-duty agility"and seen the pictures of how well the Ridgeline "takes punishment".

 

For further info see below*

 

 

===============================

 

 

 

*Honda's definition of "ability to handle punishment"

 

Edmunds Senior Editor: "One incident that has called into question our affinity for the Ridgeline is its ability to withstand off-road use. Senior Consumer Advice Editor Phil Reed took the truck on a family campout in Death Valley, California, figuring the Ridgeline was the perfect vehicle to get him, his wife and two sons to a remote campsite.

 

The road was a long, but relatively flat stretch that seemed well within the Ridgeline's capabilities. Its surface was rough washboard but certainly nothing that couldn't be handled at modest speeds by a modern truck. "I adjusted my speed to minimize vibration and eventually settled between 10 and 15 mph. I held my speed down and steered around the worst of the holes and ruts."

 

His tame driving wasn't enough apparently, as he returned to L.A. noting that the Ridgeline seemed to be handling a bit strange. A check by the dealer revealed that all four struts were blown out and needed to be replaced. The dealer initially signaled that it might not replace them under warranty, but in a subsequent phone call agreed to replace them as a "one time good faith" gesture."

 

Yep, that's what you call BUILT HONDA TOUGH

 

====================================

Edited February 8, 2008 by range

[range]

Ford doesn't sell a rebadge of the Honda Legend that I know of?? Plus, this is the literal version of a re-badge. At at the $50K mark, you're talking an entirely different clientele.

 

 

 

LOL

 

Funny how the Honda fanboys ignore this FACT.

[range]

and more wonderful Acura differentiation