Do Something About The Quality!

[96 Pony]

O.K. - my blood has run Ford Blue since I was in high school. So much so that I ignored the rusting problems and continued oil guzzling with my '77 Ranger: perpetual problems with the air conditioner and alternater on my '87 Cougar: the substandard pleather on my '96 Mustang GT that had to be replaced twice under warranty with under 60k miles, not to mention the air conditioner problem on it as well: and the bad fit and finish of the body panels and interior on my '01 Mustang GT, not to mention the fact that the top never went up and down evenly (I was told this was "normal" by my dealer). But now I may be at the end with Ford unless there is a significant increase in the quality of the crap that is coming off the line!

 

I am referring to my '02, $40k Thunderbird with 21k miles on it. In that 21k miles the alarm system has failed: the hard top scratched the hell out of the body so much that I have not put it back on in 2 years: and now, the horn has stopped working! Now if this had been any other $40k car, I would have had a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty and it would have been covered. But since I only get Ford's crappy 3 year/36,000 warranty I have to pay for these repairs. Oh, and did I mention - THE AIR CONDITIONER DOESN'T WORK ON THIS ONE EITHER! :angry:

 

I thought after the TBird I would move on to a Lincoln or Jaguar but now I think that would be foolish since the 'Bird shared everything with the Lincoln LS and Jag, so I have to assume that a lot of the current and future problems I have with the 'Bird are also happening on the Lincoln and Jag.

 

Not to mention the crappy service I have always gotton at the Ford dealers. Never want to take responsibility for anything that is wrong with the car and are rude at the same time. And half of those overpaid Ford service reps can't fix the damn thing right the first time! Although I will say that since I have started taking the 'Bird to a Lincoln dealership for service that aspect has gotton much better.

 

So Ford - I will probably be spending about $50-$60k max on my next car within a year or so. I would like for it to be a Lincoln or a Jag. You have 1-2 years to do something about your crappy quality. Otherwise, I may be doing something I never thought I would - considering some German model.

[J-150]

So Ford - I will probably be spending about $50-$60k max on my next car within a year or so. I would like for it to be a Lincoln or a Jag. You have 1-2 years to do something about your crappy quality. Otherwise, I may be doing something I never thought I would - considering some German model.

 

 

 

perhaps you should just vote with your wallet. Come back when quality is there.

[kevinb120]

Did you use the poly strips under the edge of the hard top?

 

Could be worse though, you could of bought an Acura RL. :blink:

[96 Pony]

Did you use the poly strips under the edge of the hard top?

 

Could be worse though, you could of bought an Acura RL. :blink:

 

No. They didn't have the strips in '02. But I did go in in '04 to get those strips and the dealer was going to charge me for them and said I would have to buy new ones every year

 

What's wrong with the Acura RL? Just curious - I'm not THAT mad at Ford that I would buy a ricer! :blink:

[ford-boy]

Ok. Lets see. Car and Driver long term test- In a nutshell eight (8) trips to the dealer for UNSCHEDULED repairs to :

sunroof (twice), side view mirrors, head rest, power outlets, power window. In addition, 3 or 4 recalls were taken care of as well!!!! Shifting problem, acuralink reprogramming, etc.

 

Stick with your Fords.

[J-150]

Ok. Lets see. Car and Driver long term test- In a nutshell eight (8) trips to the dealer for UNSCHEDULED repairs to :

sunroof (twice), side view mirrors, head rest, power outlets, power window. In addition, 3 or 4 recalls were taken care of as well!!!! Shifting problem, acuralink reprogramming, etc.

 

Stick with your Fords.

 

 

he could always go with a Lexus. A probelme free car. ANd should something happen, they seriously kiss your ass. Unlike Ford service guys that treat you like youre stupid and an inconvenience.

[Ron W.]

If you're taking your Ford to a dealership that treats you like an inconvience i hope you only make that mistake once. There are alot of Ford dealerships bending over backward to increase customer traffic, discounts, free oil changes, some even have the luxury of being able to do warranty repairs without having to jump thru all the corporate hoops.

Take it someplace you trust, be a repeat customer the service personel at the dealer you choose will help in any way they can.

[96 Pony]

I guess it is unfair to make a blanket statement that all Ford service departments are bad. I may have just been unlucky. And like I say, the Lincoln dealership I took the 'Bird to just for general maintenance did kiss ass very well. :P

 

My rant is that I should not even have to worry about taking a car that was expensive and shared a lot of elements with a Lincoln and a Jag to the dealership at all with only 21k miles. If I owned a Lexus or a BMW, I seriously doubt I would be having a lot of these problems or worry as much about problems down the road. Which is another thing - these are minor problems that I have had. What should I expect when I put another 20-40k miles on it?

 

I honestly did not mind that much with the Mustangs having to take it in because I know when I bought them that they were cheaply built cars with a big engine and that was fine at the time. But now that I am entering the stage of my life that I can afford luxury and performance, I guess I am expecting more.

 

BTW - I love the 'Bird and it is not a lemon by any means. Had it been priced in the $30k range I might not be so pissed about this situation.

[ebritt]

Ok. Lets see. Car and Driver long term test- In a nutshell eight (8) trips to the dealer for UNSCHEDULED repairs to :

sunroof (twice), side view mirrors, head rest, power outlets, power window. In addition, 3 or 4 recalls were taken care of as well!!!! Shifting problem, acuralink reprogramming, etc.

 

Stick with your Fords.

 

2004 explorer xlt 4WD

 

$600 rebuild tranny (21000 miles)

$3000 replace tranny (40000 miles)

$1500 replace rear diff. (60000 miles)

 

Stick with my Ford????

[ilovemoney]

O.K. - my blood has run Ford Blue since I was in high school. So much so that I ignored the rusting problems and continued oil guzzling with my '77 Ranger: perpetual problems with the air conditioner and alternater on my '87 Cougar: the substandard pleather on my '96 Mustang GT that had to be replaced twice under warranty with under 60k miles, not to mention the air conditioner problem on it as well: and the bad fit and finish of the body panels and interior on my '01 Mustang GT, not to mention the fact that the top never went up and down evenly (I was told this was "normal" by my dealer). But now I may be at the end with Ford unless there is a significant increase in the quality of the crap that is coming off the line!

 

I am referring to my '02, $40k Thunderbird with 21k miles on it. In that 21k miles the alarm system has failed: the hard top scratched the hell out of the body so much that I have not put it back on in 2 years: and now, the horn has stopped working! Now if this had been any other $40k car, I would have had a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty and it would have been covered. But since I only get Ford's crappy 3 year/36,000 warranty I have to pay for these repairs. Oh, and did I mention - THE AIR CONDITIONER DOESN'T WORK ON THIS ONE EITHER! :angry:

 

I thought after the TBird I would move on to a Lincoln or Jaguar but now I think that would be foolish since the 'Bird shared everything with the Lincoln LS and Jag, so I have to assume that a lot of the current and future problems I have with the 'Bird are also happening on the Lincoln and Jag.

 

Not to mention the crappy service I have always gotton at the Ford dealers. Never want to take responsibility for anything that is wrong with the car and are rude at the same time. And half of those overpaid Ford service reps can't fix the damn thing right the first time! Although I will say that since I have started taking the 'Bird to a Lincoln dealership for service that aspect has gotton much better.

 

 

maybe this will cheer you up just a little:

 

Return to Top Stories

 

Update: Ford Links Compensation To Initial Vehicle Quality

Dow Jones 03/10/06

by John D. Stoll

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co.'s (F) board of directors has significantly tightened a performance measurement for top-level executives to better tie certain stock-related incentives to initial vehicle quality.

 

The change, made Wednesday and outlined in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Thursday, is part of Ford's effort to improve customer satisfaction. The auto maker's Performance Stock Rights (PSR) incentive plan now links executive incentives to how cars perform in the first three months of service, from the previous benchmark of the first three years after purchase.

 

The move covers the period spanning 2006 through 2008 and comes as the company looks to execute its sprawling Way Forward turnaround plan. The plan aims to stabilize the company's falling U.S. market share, return North American operations to profitability by 2008, and cut 30,000 jobs and 14 plants from its manufacturing base.

 

Way Forward architect Mark Fields, Ford's recently appointed Americas president, has stressed management accountability as Ford attempts a recovery.

 

The No. 2 U.S. auto maker bled more than $1.5 billion in 2005 and continued its decade-long market share slide. In third-party quality testing done by California research firm J.D. Power & Associates, Ford's domestic brands performed notably better than competitors on long-term dependability tests than they performed on its benchmark Initial Quality Survey.

 

Ford officially dubs the new performance guideline the Things Gone Wrong at Three Months in Service metric, which replaces the High Time in Service Improvement metric. Ford spokeswoman Becky Sanch said the metric is one of five measurements that factor into the PSR incentive equation. She noted that the PSR is one of a variety of incentives available to Ford management.

 

Additional incentive metrics include global market share, shareholder return, cost performance and vehicle launch performance.

 

 

So Ford - I will probably be spending about $50-$60k max on my next car within a year or so. I would like for it to be a Lincoln or a Jag. You have 1-2 years to do something about your crappy quality. Otherwise, I may be doing something I never thought I would - considering some German model.

 

 

perhaps you should just vote with your wallet. Come back when quality is there.

 

check this out:

 

Return to Top Stories

 

Update: Ford Links Compensation To Initial Vehicle Quality

Dow Jones 03/10/06

by John D. Stoll

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co.'s (F) board of directors has significantly tightened a performance measurement for top-level executives to better tie certain stock-related incentives to initial vehicle quality.

 

The change, made Wednesday and outlined in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Thursday, is part of Ford's effort to improve customer satisfaction. The auto maker's Performance Stock Rights (PSR) incentive plan now links executive incentives to how cars perform in the first three months of service, from the previous benchmark of the first three years after purchase.

 

The move covers the period spanning 2006 through 2008 and comes as the company looks to execute its sprawling Way Forward turnaround plan. The plan aims to stabilize the company's falling U.S. market share, return North American operations to profitability by 2008, and cut 30,000 jobs and 14 plants from its manufacturing base.

 

Way Forward architect Mark Fields, Ford's recently appointed Americas president, has stressed management accountability as Ford attempts a recovery.

 

The No. 2 U.S. auto maker bled more than $1.5 billion in 2005 and continued its decade-long market share slide. In third-party quality testing done by California research firm J.D. Power & Associates, Ford's domestic brands performed notably better than competitors on long-term dependability tests than they performed on its benchmark Initial Quality Survey.

 

Ford officially dubs the new performance guideline the Things Gone Wrong at Three Months in Service metric, which replaces the High Time in Service Improvement metric. Ford spokeswoman Becky Sanch said the metric is one of five measurements that factor into the PSR incentive equation. She noted that the PSR is one of a variety of incentives available to Ford management.

 

Additional incentive metrics include global market share, shareholder return, cost performance and vehicle launch performance.

[jamscal]

be a repeat customer

 

I think the idea is to not be a repeat customer to any service dept.

 

-James

[mr_blue_twisted_steel]

Honda cleans up in Consumer Reports picks

All 10 of the magazine's 2006 Top Picks are Japanese nameplates, but half are U.S.-made Hondas.

March 1, 2006; Posted: 6:14 p.m. EST (2314 GMT)

 

By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney staff writer

 

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Japanese carmakers -- or, more specifically, Honda followed by Toyota and Subaru -- took all ten spots in this year's Consumer Reports magazine top picks.

 

No American or European nameplates are represented in this year's list, which is published in the April issue of Consumer Reports magazine.

 

The lone American nameplate model on last year's list, the Ford Focus, was replaced this year by the new, redesigned Honda Civic

 

Of the five Honda vehicles on Consumer Reports' Top Picks, four are manufactured in the U.S. The remaining vehicle, the Honda Ridgeline, was designed and engineered in the U.S. but is built in Canada.

 

Of the five other vehicles in the list, two are Toyotas, two are Subarus and one is from Nissan's Infiniti luxury division. The remaining five are all are produced in Japan.

 

Consumers Reports buys vehicles anonymously for its test fleet through ordinary retail dealerships and tests them at a specially built facility in Connecticut. Among the tests performed are acceleration, handling, braking, ride quality and visibility.

 

In addition to track tests, test engineers also drive the vehicle in ordinary day-to-day situations.

 

To gauge reliability, the magazine surveys subscribers to both the magazine and its related Web site. Each respondent can supply data on up to two vehicles and the magazine has received survey data on about a million individual vehicles, Consumer Reports said.

 

In order to be considered for a Top Pick a vehicle must have at least average predicted reliability, based on survey results, and good scores in crash tests by the government and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

[WingBender]

Members of my family have owned four Fords over the years; we probably won't be coming back.

 

The way that Ford cuts corners becomes glaringly obvious after a few years of ownership. Parts of the car start to fail prematurely. To someone like me who purchases a car with the intention of keeping it long past warranty expiration, this is not good.

 

In the past, quality problems seemed to have their root in manufacturing defects. That is, something wasn't built or installed right. Now, we see more quality problems due to poor design. A prime example is the water pump Ford built into my Contour. They designed it with a plastic impeller wheel. Now, every engineer who stayed awake in his or her materials science class knows that plastic will embrittle and break when subjected to cycled heating and cooling. Yet, some genius at Ford was able to show that the company could save X-number of dollars by putting plastic in the water pumps. Cost-cutting triumphed over engineering. And the owner takes the shaft.

 

My overall impression of Ford products leads me to believe that when they call for bids from parts suppliers, they always take the low bid. And their eternal complaint that they are at a permanent price disadvantage because of their labor contracts and pension obligations only goes so far. Their corporate culture says, "Make it cheap, regardless."

 

I look at the new Fusion and think, what a great design. Too bad it's a Ford. I would consider it if I had some assurance that after a few years of ownership, the check engine light won't go one every couple of months.

 

Ford needs to recognize that most people will make several new car purchases in their lifetime. For many of them, their first new Ford will be their last. The cheaper Ford makes its cars, the more it erodes brand loyalty.

 

Regards, WingBender

[sparks will fly]

 

 

 

My overall impression of Ford products leads me to believe that when they call for bids from parts suppliers, they always take the low bid. And their eternal complaint that they are at a permanent price disadvantage because of their labor contracts and pension obligations only goes so far. Their corporate culture says, "Make it cheap, regardless."

 

 

 

Well talking to a contractor freind of mine he says Ford is worse than that. They put out a job for bid, get the lowest price, then start bidding over not to exceed the prior lowest price. Hows that for cheap? He says that is the way all Ford's operations are currently run, thats why more and more parts, gloves, supplies, ect are from China, Mexico and so on. Ford wants its employee's to support Ford but they do not want to support U.S.A. themselves.

 

HYPOCRITES

[Hellcat_F6F]

Our '04 Explorer XLT 4X4 hasn't given us a lick of trouble in 24,000 miles, not a damn thing. I still say it rides like a buckboard and is slow, but no problems.

[WingBender]

Our '04 Explorer XLT 4X4 hasn't given us a lick of trouble in 24,000 miles, not a damn thing. I still say it rides like a buckboard and is slow, but no problems.

Make sure you sell it before the warranty expires!

[J-150]

Our '04 Explorer XLT 4X4 hasn't given us a lick of trouble in 24,000 miles, not a damn thing. I still say it rides like a buckboard and is slow, but no problems.

 

 

call us when it needs a new tranny at 50k.

[Ovaltine]

In the past, quality problems seemed to have their root in manufacturing defects. That is, something wasn't built or installed right. Now, we see more quality problems due to poor design. A prime example is the water pump Ford built into my Contour. They designed it with a plastic impeller wheel. Now, every engineer who stayed awake in his or her materials science class knows that plastic will embrittle and break when subjected to cycled heating and cooling. Yet, some genius at Ford was able to show that the company could save X-number of dollars by putting plastic in the water pumps. Cost-cutting triumphed over engineering. And the owner takes the shaft.

Hey Wingbender!

 

Your post about Ford's use of plastic(s) caught my eye.

 

I've been railing about their composite intake manifolds for quite awhile on here.

 

My neighbor just got the final word on whether Ford would reimburse him for the replacement of the composite intake manifold that cracked, emptied his cooling system, and almost fried his motor while driving down the highway in the Detroit area.

 

My neighbor ended fixing the manifold on his own dime, since it was long after the original warranty. Ironically, the new design composite manifold has a *metal* portion now where the radiator hose attaches.

 

When the class-action suit for getting repairs and reimbursements for repairs made was announced, my neighbor's hopes were raised that he'd get some of his repair costs back.

 

Guess what? *ZZZZZzzzzzzttttt* He's getting Zero, Zip, Zilch, Nada.

 

Ford worded the settlement so that they only had to fix or reimburse repairs that occurred *less than* seven years after the car's initial warranty period started. Since his car is a '96, that means that his 7 year warranty on the manifold ended in 2003.

 

What year did the failure and repair occur? 2004.

 

Mileage at the time of the repair? Approximately 80-85k. Totally average.

 

Now you tell me that Ford didn't have someone in statistics and engineering spin the service/repair database around a few times and crank THAT stat out. I would lay money down that engineering figured out that the manifolds were good for at best 7 years on average, so that's where they drew their line in the sand to minimize payouts.

 

So the $735 my neighbor deserved is down the crapper.

 

The irony is.... he works at Ford.

 

My years spent working for a small company that did dealership and marketing analysis for Ford definitely makes me feel that the data analysis scenario I describe above for determining the timeframe for repairs/reimbursements is plausible. Only the people in Dearborn really know for sure.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited March 17, 2006 by Ovaltine

[WingBender]

That plastic intake manifold story sounds familiar. In my case, the early V6 Contours (and maybe the later ones as well - who knows) had the water pumps with the plastic impellers. Like clockwork, they would snap right around 50k miles. You remove the water pump, and little bits and pieces of broken impeller wheel come falling out. Brilliant cost savings, Ford!

 

Rule of thumb: a cost saving for the manufacturer usually leads to higher costs for the owner.

Edited March 17, 2006 by WingBender

[96 Pony]

:angry: Just a little update on my $40k, former "halo car." with only 20,000 miles :angry:

 

So last Friday I had trouble starting it. Had the same intermintent problem off and on through today but it seemed to run fine once it got started.

 

Today I head out to the Dr.'s and all of the sudden - no fuel! Car was still running but the accelerator wasn't working. I pumped the accelerator a few times and it jerked and I had fuel flowing again.

 

So I go to the Dr. and decide I better head home and take it to the dealer. It did the same thing again as soon as I left the parking lot. So I am anxiously driving it back home when it just totally shut down on the Carquinez Bridge. :angry: So I sit there as I back traffic up and people are flipping me off as they pass, try to restart it and - voila - it starts. So I make it to the Ford dealer finally.

 

Attention Ford - my Ford Blue Blood is starting to quickly turn to another color . . .

Edited April 6, 2006 by 96 Pony

[ebritt]

Sounds like your Explorer has a loose nut behind the wheel.

 

While that may be true, that doesent account for the gremlins in the drive train!

 

:P :P :P :P

[rstang1999]

I just wanted to add my two cents to this thread. Serious quality problems got me out of Fords. Here is a list of the new fords I have bought and the problems:

 

1. 1987 Escort - Computers Computers - heater core problems.

2. 1992 Escort - This was a good car - window regulator constantly went bad.

3. 1993 Escort - Ok car no real problems.

4. 1995 Thunderbird - Great car, soft paint. It scratched if you went within five foot of the car.

5. 1997 Taurus, Couldn't keep a front set of brakes on it without the rotors warping. Rattled like crazy going down the road.

6. 1998 F150 - Sliding window frame cracked, can't keep a set of rotors on it, rust, rust, rust at two years old. Tranfer case went south at 40k miles.

6. 1999 Cobra - Don't get me started- six month fight to lemon - the replacement car was worse. Bought a BMW and took a ten thousand dollar hit trading the second lemon in. Car of my dreams for twenty years was a steaming pile of crap. Want to give me a ten thousand dollar credit towards a new car?

7. Bought my daughter a 2000 focus. What was not wrong with this car? What a giant peace of junk. Headliner, carpet, engine, transmission. What wasn't wrong with this car? Three years old and 30k miles the dealership gave her 2k for the car on trade in and sent it to auction. This was a bigger lemon than my Cobras.

 

So now I sit here ready to buy a new truck and I'm wondering if I'm going to get another vehicle that's a lemon or has Ford focused on quality? Should I just buy a Honda or Toyota pickup?

 

Ron Thompson

Formerly a loyal, but screwed customer.

 

oops forgot another lemon,

 

97 f150 - bad transmission. rebuilt twice decided to trade it in on the 98 f150. And no they never fixed the transmission problem.

 

Ron Thompson

Formerly a loyal, but screwed customer.

[rstang1999]

Ford engineering and management: I want you to note the progression over time and the deteriation in quality of your vehicles. Starting in about the mid-nineties is when I noticed a real fall off in quality to the point of losing me as a customer. I have not bought a vehicle from you since 2000. I have bought a few BMWs. Give me a reason to come back. I want to buy American cars, but I don't have the time to deal with problem vehicles and really don't like wasting money.

 

Ron

[96 Pony]

So update on the repairs to my TBird -

 

So they thought they had fixed the problem - something to do with the idle. Oh, and they fixed the horn relay because, well, it had 20,000 miles on it so I guess with Ford, these things going out are normal. So the total cost for the repairs was $685, of which $500 of that was to pay for the union mechanic for a few hours work. I guess, since not every Ford mechanic knows how to work on a TBird that maybe he's more specialized or something and therefore more expensive?

 

So they go to get the car for me at the dealer and guess what - the thing wouldn't start! Same problem I brought it in with!

 

Now here is the part where I have something positive to say about the whole experience:

 

The service lady was very nice and very apologetic. She loaned me a Focus and promised to get to the bottom of the problem. I got a call the next day and apparently on the TBird there are 2 fuel pumps and one went out. Which is not anything that is just a Ford issue as my dad had the same problem on his Chrysler 300C at 30,000 miles.

 

So, since they had found 2 problems on the car that both had TSB's she convinced the dealer manager to give me a "good faith" warranty and they will fix the fuel pumps at no charge. Additionally, as I have to go out of town today, she offered to keep the 'Bird at the dealership until I got back. Now this is going way beyond the call of duty as I didn't buy the car at that dealership and haven't bought anything else there.

 

So long story short, because of this service manager's acts, I am not going to do what I threatened and go over to the imports - at least not right now. In the future I will lease a car on the 3 year/36,000 plan. Apparently I have stumbled on a good Ford dealer and they will get my business!

[napoleon]

call us when it needs a new tranny at 50k.

 

 

Should I be worried? Im at 40k on my '04 ranger. Come to think of it I have had a problem with my ranger, Ive noticed smoke pouring out the passenger rear tire. It seems to happen only when I hit the skinny pedal on the floor. Whos bright idea was it to use 4.10 gears, 4liter v6 and an open differential. Ill let ford slide on this but for the sake of the poor kid in the civic on my way to work that has to listen to my tire boil next to his drivers window at the light they better work on a fix.