twintornados Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Guess so...didn't realize they needed three of the same model That makes sense. Why have one dirty sock when you can have three. So....a CR-V is a dirty sock?? I couldn't agree with you more!! :hysterical: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 One thing that I find incredibly humorous, is that the trolls seem to change their arguement, depending on the details. Now, choice is a bad thing. Yet, if Ford cancelled all but the 4cyl Escape, choice would be a good thing. Have cake, eat it too??? yea, the trolls try but fail to change the subject. They can't change the fact that Ford is #1 in this category and Ford has increased market share with this remodel. The fact that the Escape has done so well, is especially bitter medicine to some here when you consider the continued success of the Edge. The Escape has not stolen sales from the Edge. They both have grown in sales. Something that can not be said of CRV/Pilot. And those poor Rav4 sales speak for themselves. Its good to see Ford is not resting and is adding a class-leading 6 speed auto (something Honda still does not make for any vehicle) and new engines in 2 months. Now if Ford could just squeeze out more production from the Escape plant....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) There is also one bit very much true to PC's mindless ramblings in this thread: Honda ignores fleet sales. On the other hand, the Escape is very much a government-fleet vehicle. Retail sales only, the CR-V is no doubt well above Escape, just like the Accord is well above Camry. This is the same kind of good news as the 08 Focus - everyone online held hands and sang around a campfire how they will fail miserably on their face and end up next to the Aztec in the automotive history books. I myself was not too thrilled by the Escape when I was reviewing it. However, there seems to be a very well placed value proposition that has many real customers lining up to buy these cars - their sales are up not only compared to previous years (in this market that is expected of these small, efficient cars), but their sales are also up compared to the competition and Ford is gaining market share in these segments. That is great news for an automaker in as deep of a trouble as Ford - they do not need overnight stars a-la Acadia, that fizzle in 6 months - they need steady progress gaining back their footing in key markets. The Escape and the Focus are doing just that. Could the cars have been better? You bet! Could they have gained more ground faster, had they been better? D'oh! But the cars we have are not failures, not by a long shot. Igor Note that fleet sales to governments aren't the same as fleet sales to rental car companies. Governments tend not to dump a year-old vehicle on to the used-car market, which depresses resale value and destroys brand equity. (Also, if I recall correctly, the Camry still outsells the Accord at retail.) I'm glad these two vehicles are selling - Ford needs every sale it can get. One hopes that, with the new regime in charge, we've seen the last of these halfway makeovers. Edited April 3, 2008 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bri719 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) CR-V outsold the Escape YET AGAIN despite the massive disadvantage. Very impressive indeed Range, keep grasping at straws. nice spin, too bad it isn't true :reading: you can qualify the Escape sales all you want, saying they have the advantage of the hybrid. but look at it the same way: the new Highlander has a hybrid model and the Edge actually (not virtually) outsells it. thanks very much, drive thru, have a nice day. who cares if there is an (outdated, btw) i4 and V6. you call this an advantage? Ford's Escape drivetrain options are old and not by choice, therefore it's a wash at best. btw, it's not like Honda couldn't do this. saying they only have one engine option is not necessarily a disadvantage - and it's actually by choice. just like how the Edge has one engine available by design. Edited April 3, 2008 by bri719 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bri719 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Note that fleet sales to governments aren't the same as fleet sales to rental car companies. Governments tend not to dump a year-old vehicle on to the used-car market, which depresses resale value and destroys brand equity. (Also, if I recall correctly, the Camry still outsells the Accord at retail.) I'm glad these two vehicles are selling - Ford needs every sale it can get. One hopes that, with the new regime in charge, we've seen the last of these halfway makeovers. a few weeks back I saw for the first time a Camry taxicab. does this mean all Toyotas are now fleet vehicles and their sales are not legit? guess so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 a few weeks back I saw for the first time a Camry taxicab. does this mean all Toyotas are now fleet vehicles and their sales are not legit? guess so. Last I checked, fleet sales are still sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 nice spin, too bad it isn't true :reading: you can qualify the Escape sales all you want, saying they have the advantage of the hybrid. but look at it the same way: the new Highlander has a hybrid model and the Edge actually (not virtually) outsells it. thanks very much, drive thru, have a nice day. who cares if there is an (outdated, btw) i4 and V6. you call this an advantage? Ford's Escape drivetrain options are old and not by choice, therefore it's a wash at best. btw, it's not like Honda couldn't do this. saying they only have one engine option is not necessarily a disadvantage - and it's actually by choice. just like how the Edge has one engine available by design. It'd be spin if the facts didn't agree with him. Love him or hate him, the CR-V did outsell the Escape, just like the Edge outsold the Highlander. Why is this still being beaten to death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) a few weeks back I saw for the first time a Camry taxicab. does this mean all Toyotas are now fleet vehicles and their sales are not legit? guess so. Taxi cab companies don't dump their vehicles on to the used-car market after 1-2 years of use, unlike rental car companies. I never thought that being used as taxicabs (or police cars) hurt the reputation of the Crown Victoria. If anything, it is a testimony to its basic toughness. The problem with the Crown Victoria (and Grand Marquis) is the Ford didn't keep the interior and exterior styling up-to-date. Fleet sales are detrimental when 1/2 or more of production is dumped on to Avis, Hertz, Alamo, etc., as the old Taurus was. Edited April 4, 2008 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 It'd be spin if the facts didn't agree with him. Love him or hate him, the CR-V did outsell the Escape, just like the Edge outsold the Highlander. Why is this still being beaten to death? Why is this still being beaten to death? Probably because so many on here predicted the new Escape was going to be a "failure" and now when it is obvious that the Escape is a success, those same people have to think of lame excuses why the Escape has achieved this success. Not only was is the new Escape not a failure, but it wiped out the gap that used to exist with the CRV and now Ford is the #1 manufacturer in this category. What's more impressive is Ford achieved this status without having to cannibalize Edge sales (#1 in its segment). Its also good to see Ford investing further in the Escape with the introduction of two new/revised engines and a new 6 speed auto starting in just 2 months. Honda still does not offer a 6 speed auto on any of their vehicles, including the Acura line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas1022 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Hybrid fleet sales are going to the cab companies right? I'm thinking that they only have so many that they can choose from. And Honda isn't amoung the choices. Seems like the folks at Honda are making some boneheaded decisions, what with discontinueing the Accord Hybrid, one engine offering for the CR-V thingy... No, Honda was the strategy leader for years of automotive marketing. But the market has changed. Honda is remaining intrangent to the conditions. If they stay that way, the market will leave them. Just like the market it starting to move away from Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 Hybrid fleet sales are going to the cab companies right? I'm thinking that they only have so many that they can choose from. And Honda isn't amoung the choices. Seems like the folks at Honda are making some boneheaded decisions, what with discontinueing the Accord Hybrid, one engine offering for the CR-V thingy... No, Honda was the strategy leader for years of automotive marketing. But the market has changed. Honda is remaining intrangent to the conditions. If they stay that way, the market will leave them. Just like the market it starting to move away from Toyota. Good point. Honda does not even make any full-hybrid models. Whereas Ford only makes full-hybrid models. Honda is also AWOL in 6 speed autos. They produce zero 6 speed autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efy Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Very impressive run by the Escape. Wait until it gets new drivetrain in August and has Sync as option. It should be number one small ute by September. Throw in third generation hybrid model and you have formidable lineup. Maybe they will improve the brakes, too. I'm sure that would help sales at least a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 The point is it is not a failure, so get over it. And someone is not an expert. Also, Honda's other 'trucks' are bombs, especially the so called 'pick-up that is a Better Idea', and that ugly MOFO Element. No surfer dudes are buying them, only old ladies going to WalMart. Oh, and the Pilot? ick! BTW: Acura divsion is fading into nothing-ness, with slipping sales and bring prodcuts that are just Honda clones. So who really is doing greatly? Also, the Focus is exceeding expectations, and showing that Car & Driver's opinion is out of touch. They pick the 21 mpg Rabbit, with VW's questionable qualitty as 'the car for 35 mpg worls' in latest issue, WTF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Also, the Focus is exceeding expectations, and showing that Car & Driver's opinion is out of touch. They pick the 21 mpg Rabbit, with VW's questionable qualitty as 'the car for 35 mpg worls' in latest issue, WTF! Yeah i read that article and said to myself they must not have considered predicted future reliability for that award that was given to VW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Yeah i read that article and said to myself they must not have considered predicted future reliability for that award that was given to VW. On a related note, I saw two more VW's on the way into work this morning with only one functioning headlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 On a related note, I saw two more VW's on the way into work this morning with only one functioning headlight. Most Passats in the UK are laid up outside VW dealers awaiting parts for their latest recall. I notice your VW dealers have recalled every single Passat back to 1999 Nick. http://www.autoblog.com/category/volkswagen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Hybrid fleet sales are going to the cab companies right? I'm thinking that they only have so many that they can choose from. And Honda isn't amoung the choices. Seems like the folks at Honda are making some boneheaded decisions, what with discontinueing the Accord Hybrid, one engine offering for the CR-V thingy... No, Honda was the strategy leader for years of automotive marketing. But the market has changed. Honda is remaining intrangent to the conditions. If they stay that way, the market will leave them. Just like the market it starting to move away from Toyota. The one-engined CR-V is still the sales leader. Quite a boneheaded decision they made there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The one-engined CR-V is still the sales leader. Quite a boneheaded decision they made there. yes, the people that bought them were pretty stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 On a related note, I saw two more VW's on the way into work this morning with only one functioning headlight. My wife judges brand quality by how many cars she see on the side of the highway with burnt out head lights and flat tires. I have to tell her that the car manufacturer don't make the tires, nore the head lights. These are things that fail on all cars. She does not believe me. Maybe the headlight don't get fixed on the better cars because they never need to go into the shop for repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Maybe the headlight don't get fixed on the better cars because they never need to go into the shop for repairs. Or it could be that Volkswagen electronics are notoriously shitty. My explanation holds more water. I don't see other "better cars" with such a widespread problem with their lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Good point. Honda does not even make any full-hybrid models. Whereas Ford only makes full-hybrid models. Honda is also AWOL in 6 speed autos. They produce zero 6 speed autos. How does the Honda system work? They seem efficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 How does the Honda system work? They seem efficient? In the Honda system, I do believe, the gas engine runs at all times, if not to power the drive wheels, then to charge the batteries. I don't think they use regenerative braking like the Ford and Toyota setups either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Or it could be that Volkswagen electronics are notoriously shitty. My explanation holds more water. I don't see other "better cars" with such a widespread problem with their lights. I know volkswagen electonics are shitty. I can't see how that can cause a head light failure without buring out everything else in the electrical system. More likely the headlights fail because they are from a cheaper supplier, or the car has a harsher ride.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I know volkswagen electonics are shitty. I can't see how that can cause a head light failure without buring out everything else in the electrical system. More likely the headlights fail because they are from a cheaper supplier, or the car has a harsher ride.. Voltage spikes will mess up headlights pretty easily without causing any ill-effects elsewhere in the electronics. Lighting usually resides on its own circuit too. It could also go beyond the bulb itself. It could be the socket that is failing. It could be a cheap supplier, but then we'd assume that the problem would go away after the owner replaces the bulbs once, but that doesn't appear to be the case based on the wide age range of VW's I've seen with the problem. The harsher ride argument holds absolutely zero water. I'm sure my Mustang rides harsher than any production VW and I've yet to have to replace a headlight bulb on it in the 11 years I've owned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Voltage spikes will mess up headlights pretty easily without causing any ill-effects elsewhere in the electronics. Lighting usually resides on its own circuit too. It could also go beyond the bulb itself. It could be the socket that is failing. It could be a cheap supplier, but then we'd assume that the problem would go away after the owner replaces the bulbs once, but that doesn't appear to be the case based on the wide age range of VW's I've seen with the problem. The harsher ride argument holds absolutely zero water. I'm sure my Mustang rides harsher than any production VW and I've yet to have to replace a headlight bulb on it in the 11 years I've owned it. I bet head lights aren't covered under warrenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.