Escape vs CRV March Sales

[range]

Good job range! 1 point answered, now get working on the rest!

 

ARE YOU ADMITTING THAT YOU WERE W-R-O-N-G?

 

Let the RECORD clearly show

 

pcsario's claim:

 

"The one where the Escape, Marineer, and Tribute combined can't outsell the CR-V + its Acura platform mate?"

 

IS BOGUS

 

IS WRONG

Edited April 2, 2008 by range

[pcsario]

Here range, you forgot these, let me lend you a hand:

 

"The one where the Escape still can't outsell the CR-V?

 

The one where you keep playing dumb about high fleet sales?

 

The one where the Escape failed to recover the sales crowns lost to the CR-V, as predicted?"

 

You keep ignoring them.

Edited April 2, 2008 by pcsario

[Sixt9coug]

STILL WAITING ON THOSE RAV4 NUMBERS.

 

YOU KNOW, THE RAV4 WITH THE I4 and V6 engines, just like the Escape.......

 

 

Ok ill bite.

 

Rav4 - 12,955 (had to correct)

 

Esape - 18,517

 

 

 

Rav4 is selling about 30% less than the Ford. Factor in the other two and the Ford triplets are around 10K more units last month. even if the Ford is being dumped into fleets at 30%, retail is still at Rav4 levels. got links for the fleet sales? Im curious. (not busting balls, i actually agree with 'sario sometimes)

Edited April 2, 2008 by Sixt9coug

[pcsario]

RANK VEHICLE 2008 2007 '07 RANK %Chng

 

10 Honda CR-V 50,684 47,572 12 +6.5

.

.

.

.

15 Ford Escape 43,900 39,317 21 +11.7

18 Toyota Tundra 40,784 29,186 n/a +39.7

 

<range>I thought the new Escape was supposed to revert the trend? That it would be good enough to recover the two key sales crowns lost to the same competitor? I thought we would no longer need to inflate figures by dumping ~30% to fleets to save face?

 

Oh well, another failed BONer prediction</range>

 

/thread

Edited April 2, 2008 by pcsario

[mustang_sallad]

I never really saw it for myself before, but this guy's a real waste of time.

[pcsario]

PC, not to take sides here but

I believe a lot of the hybrids are going to fleet sales and Ford saying little or no discount on them.

CD2 is pretty long in the tooth, we would prefer the Kuga but Aus is stuck with Asian Escape - twice as ugly!!!!

 

That's good to hear I guess. I always thought it was a mistake to ditch retail sales for the Hybrids, just to fulfill fleet orders, precisely because of all the lost profits involved. Once the Transit Connect arrives, Ford should stop catering so much to taxi fleets and the like for the Escape.

 

And boy you're right about the Asian Escape... makes ours a little more palatable I guess. :P

 

 

That being said, the Kuga needs a lot of work. As it is, it's more of a Vue competitor.

Edited April 2, 2008 by pcsario

[elkarlo]

LOL

 

I4 Escape + V6 Escape + Hybrid Escape + fleet sales

 

Vs.

 

Only 1 CR-V + Strong RETAIL demand

 

=

 

CR-V outsold the Escape YET AGAIN despite the massive disadvantage.

 

Very impressive indeed Range, keep grasping at straws.

 

 

Do you even have the fleet numbers?

I dunno but it seems like you talk out of your ass at a near constant rate.

 

OH NOES!!!!! We didn't factor in Hybrid sales!!!!! Are you retarded? Hybrids cost more $, therefore have a chance at a higher a better mark up. Really man, you really never have an actual argument, ever.

[range]

pcsario really walked into it this time.

 

 

1) pcsario caught lying about total Ford Motor vs Honda + Acura March compact SUV sales

 

His claim that Honda Corp is #1 is wrong.

 

 

and

 

2) pcsario claims the only reason Ford Motor is #1 is because they offer 4 cylinder and V6 models.

 

Well, so does the RAV4 and Ford blew past the RAV.

 

 

oh, and his claim that 30% of March sales were to fleets? Wrong again, big time. Not even close.

 

Sorry pcsario, some of us actually do check the facts. Perhaps you should too.

[range]

I never really saw it for myself before, but this guy's a real waste of time.

 

You are so correct.

 

Just to remind everyone how accurate pcsario is:

 

===================================================

 

PCSARIO CLAIM "the Escape, Marineer, and Tribute combined can't outsell the CR-V + its Acura platform mate?"

 

THE FACTS 23,869 (Ford Motor) > 20731 (Honda+Acura)

 

THE CONCLUSION pcsario continues to post bogus information

 

==================================================

Edited April 2, 2008 by range

[NickF1011]

Rav4 is selling about 30% less than the Ford. Factor in the other two and the Ford triplets are around 10K more units last month. even if the Ford is being dumped into fleets at 30%, retail is still at Rav4 levels. got links for the fleet sales? Im curious. (not busting balls, i actually agree with 'sario sometimes)

 

Most recent fleet numbers released are damn near a year old now. With Ford's CONTINUED reduction in fleet sales, I doubt any of those numbers are worth a hill of beans anymore.

[range]

Ok ill bite.

 

Rav4 - 12,955 (had to correct)

 

Escape - 18,517

 

 

You got it.

 

You just blew up pcsario's other argument

[battyr]

It's hard to beat the CR-V. They aren't selling at max because they are way over priced and don't offer a V-6. But boy, they must be making a big profit.

 

The Escapes is priced right, and has a huge ground clearance which makes it look more like an off roader.

 

When the Kuga comes to USA, I thing they should keep the Escape and make it more of an off roader. Keep the Kuga for going to the malls in the snow. Use the Escape to go fishing off road.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

ARE YOU ADMITTING THAT YOU WERE W-R-O-N-G?

 

Let the RECORD clearly show

 

pcsario's claim:

 

"The one where the Escape, Marineer, and Tribute combined can't outsell the CR-V + its Acura platform mate?"

 

IS BOGUS

 

IS WRONG

 

Ford's Kuga will kick Honda & Toyota sales out of game it should be fun watching it happen in Europe.

[NLPRacing]

LOL

 

I4 Escape + V6 Escape + Hybrid Escape + fleet sales

 

Vs.

 

Only 1 CR-V + Strong RETAIL demand

 

=

 

CR-V outsold the Escape YET AGAIN despite the massive disadvantage.

 

Very impressive indeed Range, keep grasping at straws.

 

 

 

Fuck it gets worse when you add the sales from all the platform mates

 

I4 Escape

+

V6 Escape

+

Hybrid Escape

+

I4 Mariner

+

V6 Mariner

+

I4 Tribute

+

V6 Tribute

 

23,869

 

 

 

 

CR-V

 

18,974

 

 

 

7 Vs. 1, didn't even include the Acura platform mate, and he could only make up a ~4k difference.

 

So Ford offers their customer's more drivetrain options on the Escape (Vanilla, Chocolate, Strawberry, etc.) and Honda only offers one on their CRV (Vanilla) and that's somehow a bad thing for Ford and a good thing for Honda? Please explain that.

 

Does ignoring the reality where Ford dumps ~30% Escapes to fleets, where you have to remove the Acura platform mate numbers, make the truth somehow go away range?

 

I thought the "new" Escape was supposed to recover Ford's lost sales crowns away from the CR-V?

 

Oh you're projecting yet again with that failed predictions thing, silly me.

 

Let me guess, once the MKS is out you'll pull the same crap again and say people were wrong about the 500, because after all, when you add up the sales from all platform mates it outsells the 300.

 

How do you know that Ford is "dumping" Escapes into fleets? I think we can all agree that Ford used to "dump" vehicles into daily rental fleet sales to artificially inflate sales numbers. But, it's hard to believe they are still doing that. If they were "dumping" the Escapes into fleets, the re-sale values would be plummeting. Have you checked out used Escape prices lately? They seem to be holding their value very well.

 

Do you think that just maybe Ford is selling Escapes, maybe even at a profit, to fleet customers? Like they do with F150, E-Series, etc. The company I work for buys Expeditions for our salesmen from the Ford dealer's fleet department. Does that make the Expedition a fleet queen? Is Ford "dumping" Expeditions into fleets too?

 

You must be the smartest man alive.

[twintornados]

I was reading an article a while back that Ford was hiring overtime at the plant that makes Escape/Mariner/Tribute...why would they hire overtime if they were dumping excess inventory into fleet sales.....

 

Sorry, pcsario....I believe you to be wrong here

[Devodev]

$20,700 CRV I4

 

$19,140 Escape I4

 

 

$28,400 CRV I4 (base MSRP top end)

 

$24,190 Escape V6 (base MSRP top end)

 

 

The only thing I see different between the CRV and the Escape is that the CRV doesn't offer a V6 and the CRV also doesn't offer a compelling reason to spend $28,400 on a 4wd top-of-the-line model.

 

What sort of engine it has doesn't figure into the equation.

 

Yes! As a former CR-V owner (2003), great vehicle but there is no way in the world it's worth that much money. I think Honda if figuring its favorite college graduate demographic can afford its huge price increases now-a-days. They better wake up and remember these college grads have a ton of student loan debt and families and can't afford their upper level pricing. Heck, at least with the Subaru pricing you get the traditional 4WD and "different" styling (until the new Impreza came out). I see more bad days coming for Honda.

[RAdams]

I see more bad days coming for Honda.

 

Honda is positioned as well or better than just about anyone in the market for gas price increases. Given their March sales results, what bad days have they already had and why do you predict more?

 

Oh, and as for the rest of you who like to fudge the math: The CR-V outsold the Escape, but just barely. Does adding sibling sales make you feel better? It certainly doesn't change any facts.

Edited April 2, 2008 by RAdams

[igor]

Honda is positioned as well or better than just about anyone in the market for gas price increases. Given their March sales results, what bad days have they already had and why do you predict more?

 

Oh, and as for the rest of you who like to fudge the math: The CR-V outsold the Escape, but just barely. Does adding sibling sales make you feel better? It certainly doesn't change any facts.

 

you are correct CR-V DID outsell the Escape - but the Escape used to be to 2/3 3/4 of the CR-V volume back in 2006 or so, when the CR-V started getting wings. The Escape is catching up again.

 

There is also one bit very much true to PC's mindless ramblings in this thread: Honda ignores fleet sales. On the other hand, the Escape is very much a government-fleet vehicle. Retail sales only, the CR-V is no doubt well above Escape, just like the Accord is well above Camry.

 

This is the same kind of good news as the 08 Focus - everyone online held hands and sang around a campfire how they will fail miserably on their face and end up next to the Aztec in the automotive history books. I myself was not too thrilled by the Escape when I was reviewing it. However, there seems to be a very well placed value proposition that has many real customers lining up to buy these cars - their sales are up not only compared to previous years (in this market that is expected of these small, efficient cars), but their sales are also up compared to the competition and Ford is gaining market share in these segments. That is great news for an automaker in as deep of a trouble as Ford - they do not need overnight stars a-la Acadia, that fizzle in 6 months - they need steady progress gaining back their footing in key markets. The Escape and the Focus are doing just that.

 

Could the cars have been better? You bet!

Could they have gained more ground faster, had they been better? D'oh!

But the cars we have are not failures, not by a long shot.

 

Igor

Edited April 2, 2008 by igor

[P71_CrownVic]

I4 Escape

+

V6 Escape

+

Hybrid Escape

+

I4 Mariner

+

V6 Mariner

+

I4 Tribute

+

V6 Tribute

 

23,869

 

 

 

 

CR-V

 

18,974

 

7 Vs. 1, didn't even include the Acura platform mate, and he could only make up a ~4k difference.

 

How's the Nile these days range? Oh I get it, this was your April Fool's joke.

 

Isn't there a hybrid Mariner in there too? That would make it 8 vs. 1.

[Devodev]

Honda is positioned as well or better than just about anyone in the market for gas price increases. Given their March sales results, what bad days have they already had and why do you predict more?

 

Oh, and as for the rest of you who like to fudge the math: The CR-V outsold the Escape, but just barely. Does adding sibling sales make you feel better? It certainly doesn't change any facts.

 

Not to make this completely a Honda thread...I do agree that they are still positioned and have a lot on their side in the current market as gas prices increase. My point is that they are getting away from the base that put them in this position in NA. Small, economical, quality cars at an affordable price. Sales are still good on their core models, but vehicles like the Pilot and Odyssey are slowing (they don't sell enough Elements or Ridgelines to care).

 

When I purchased my CR-V, the winning push was price over the Escape at the time. Funny thing was, someone I tried to sell it to a couple years later bought an Escape! They weren't willing to pay the Honda premium and got a loaded Escape (that cost more than I was asking ), but they felt they were getting "more car". Wonder if all the 30K Honda's are effecting Acura sales which were down 16%?

[twintornados]

Isn't there a hybrid Mariner in there too? That would make it 8 vs. 1.

Did ya forget Tribute Hybrid??

 

Ford has a lot more to offer the customer that decides they want an SUV they way they want it....not the way Mother Honda says they have to take it.

Edited April 2, 2008 by twintornados

[Michael Reynolds]

you are correct CR-V DID outsell the Escape - but the Escape used to be to 2/3 3/4 of the CR-V volume back in 2006 or so, when the CR-V started getting wings. The Escape is catching up again.

 

There is also one bit very much true to PC's mindless ramblings in this thread: Honda ignores fleet sales. On the other hand, the Escape is very much a government-fleet vehicle. Retail sales only, the CR-V is no doubt well above Escape, just like the Accord is well above Camry.

 

This is the same kind of good news as the 08 Focus - everyone online held hands and sang around a campfire how they will fail miserably on their face and end up next to the Aztec in the automotive history books. I myself was not too thrilled by the Escape when I was reviewing it. However, there seems to be a very well placed value proposition that has many real customers lining up to buy these cars - their sales are up not only compared to previous years (in this market that is expected of these small, efficient cars), but their sales are also up compared to the competition and Ford is gaining market share in these segments. That is great news for an automaker in as deep of a trouble as Ford - they do not need overnight stars a-la Acadia, that fizzle in 6 months - they need steady progress gaining back their footing in key markets. The Escape and the Focus are doing just that.

 

Could the cars have been better? You bet!

Could they have gained more ground faster, had they been better? D'oh!

But the cars we have are not failures, not by a long shot.

 

Igor

 

Well put.

 

Even though it was a very boneheaded move to dump the D30 4 spd auto on the motoring public yet again, I find it promising that it was very quickly addressed. Ditto that with the Hybrid.

 

IMO, yes Ford still have a lot of things that they can't get done right the first time around. That said the little tweaks here and there are proves that someone gets it.

[RAdams]

Not to make this completely a Honda thread...I do agree that they are still positioned and have a lot on their side in the current market as gas prices increase. My point is that they are getting away from the base that put them in this position in NA. Small, economical, quality cars at an affordable price. Sales are still good on their core models, but vehicles like the Pilot and Odyssey are slowing (they don't sell enough Elements or Ridgelines to care).

 

When I purchased my CR-V, the winning push was price over the Escape at the time. Funny thing was, someone I tried to sell it to a couple years later bought an Escape! They weren't willing to pay the Honda premium and got a loaded Escape (that cost more than I was asking ), but they felt they were getting "more car". Wonder if all the 30K Honda's are effecting Acura sales which were down 16%?

 

I suspect Acura is affecting Acura's sales more than anything -- they really have let it go to pot as of late.

[P71_CrownVic]

Did ya forget Tribute Hybrid??

 

Guess so...didn't realize they needed three of the same model

 

Ford has a lot more to offer the customer that decides they want an SUV they way they want it....not the way Mother Honda says they have to take it.

 

That makes sense. Why have one dirty sock when you can have three.

[Extreme4x4]

The Escape has something that few new Fords have today.............. name equity. There are millions of happy Escape/Tribute/Mariner owners out there. All they needed was a compelling reason to buy a new one.

 

Completely new looks, and a completely new interior can easily cause many of them to take the plunge. With the engine/trans upgrade for '09, you can easily bank on many more of us taking the plunge.

 

P, as much as you like to act like an idiot.............. I do honestly believe that you actually have a good three brain cells to rub together. Thus, even you can fathom something like name equity. This is something that your vehicle of choice has in spades. This is something that the D3's do not have............... and will have to gain. Remember, the "Taurus" has only been back for a very short time, and has not been much in the retail sales world for quite a while. So, even though it has equity............. it is equity that is going to take time.

 

One thing that I find incredibly humorous, is that the trolls seem to change their arguement, depending on the details. Now, choice is a bad thing. Yet, if Ford cancelled all but the 4cyl Escape, choice would be a good thing. Have cake, eat it too???