JW Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I really hope this thread doesn't get locked. It's not often you get to personally witness someone's total implosion online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Have you read any of his other threads? They're all like this I really hope this thread doesn't get locked. It's not often you get to personally witness someone's total implosion online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 A sociopathic obsessive-compulsive. Elusive, flawed logic, with epithets for those with whom he disagrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Have you read any of his other threads? They're all like this Yes, but this one's the fast-track, Reader's Digest version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 BMW won't buy Volvo I don't think. But what I did notice the other day was that BMW are exploring a link up with Daimler. Just as interesting was that Daimler have apparantly approached JLR about developing components with them. I guess there is a logic to all 3 working together as JLR/ Mercedes and BMW make up a large proportion of premium car sales. Mercedes could use the link up with Land Rover and Jag with Mercedes. Link up with BMW too and you can effectively use your purchasing power more effectively and shut the likes of Volvo out by combining resources...... It will be interesting to watch what Daimler, JLR and BMW do next. Daimler also has some kind of interest in TATA motors as I understand it so maybe somethings cooking there too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 BMW won't buy Volvo I don't think. But what I did notice the other day was that BMW are exploring a link up with Daimler. Just as interesting was that Daimler have apparantly approached JLR about developing components with them. I guess there is a logic to all 3 working together as JLR/ Mercedes and BMW make up a large proportion of premium car sales. Mercedes could use the link up with Land Rover and Jag with Mercedes. Link up with BMW too and you can effectively use your purchasing power more effectively and shut the likes of Volvo out by combining resources...... It will be interesting to watch what Daimler, JLR and BMW do next. Daimler also has some kind of interest in TATA motors as I understand it so maybe somethings cooking there too.... interesting... far more plausible than BMW buying Volvo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 BMW won't buy Volvo I don't think. But what I did notice the other day was that BMW are exploring a link up with Daimler. Just as interesting was that Daimler have apparantly approached JLR about developing components with them. I guess there is a logic to all 3 working together as JLR/ Mercedes and BMW make up a large proportion of premium car sales. Mercedes could use the link up with Land Rover and Jag with Mercedes. Link up with BMW too and you can effectively use your purchasing power more effectively and shut the likes of Volvo out by combining resources...... It will be interesting to watch what Daimler, JLR and BMW do next. Daimler also has some kind of interest in TATA motors as I understand it so maybe somethings cooking there too.... Oh goody a JLR spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomaro Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 (edited) BMW IS GOING TO BUY VOLVO FROM FORD MOTOR i just saw BMW financials and it made 4.8 billion dollars in 2007, and its finances are really strong meaning its debt to equity ratio of 4. in 2008, it is going to make much more than this. what surprised me is the FACT that bmw's factories are running at 100% capacity so it really needs additional capacity really bad. so just buy out volvo, and now it has the requisite capacity to expand, it will get more product line, eliminate a competitor, and make all kinds of money. it's a shame that ford didn't know how to empower volvo, and make it into a core brand. I hope none of your clients read this forum and your comments...you'll be out of business in 3 weeks. Edited May 5, 2008 by atomaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Oh goody a JLR spin. Yes OK fair enough. But I didn't want to start another thread. Having said that a 3 way deal between JLR, BMW and Daimler will make life much harder for everyone else including Volvo. A BMW purchase of Volvo would do more for Volvo than BMW it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yes OK fair enough. But I didn't want to start another thread. Having said that a 3 way deal between JLR, BMW and Daimler will make life much harder for everyone else including Volvo. A BMW purchase of Volvo would do more for Volvo than BMW it seems. I just don't see that working out, unless it has something to do with hybrids. Which the European car makers seem to have no interest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I just don't see that working out, unless it has something to do with hybrids. Which the European car makers seem to have no interest in. Apparantly JLR is also talking to Alfa Romeo about joint development of components. Over here Alfa Romeo is seen as serius competion for BMW and Mercedes. The last thing they want is JLR and Alfa working together. Bring JLR into the family and whilst you risk loosing sales to JLR you block Alfa and the likes of Volvo from easily competing. Had Daimler not come out of a messy divorce with Chrysler then I think they might have made Ford an offer for all of PAG a while back (just my opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I think the only reason Daimler would be talking to JLR, it to get the Daimler brand from them. It's the only thing JLR has that they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I think the only reason Daimler would be talking to JLR, it to get the Daimler brand from them. It's the only thing JLR has that they want. I think they have it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Joint development really is nothing new among auto makers. I don't think it signals any type of alliance but rather a cost cutting measure. I don't think Daimler was interested in PAG... It would almost seem comical if they picked up JLR just as they managed to ditch Chrysler. What rationale would they have to ditch a money pit to pick up another money pit? JLR has a lot of future issues that has to be addressed, and I don't think Daimler would have the slightest interest in dealing with it long term. When it comes to Volvo, what would Daimler have to gain from it? It certainly wouldn't give them any new markets. Apparantly JLR is also talking to Alfa Romeo about joint development of components. Over here Alfa Romeo is seen as serius competion for BMW and Mercedes. The last thing they want is JLR and Alfa working together. Bring JLR into the family and whilst you risk loosing sales to JLR you block Alfa and the likes of Volvo from easily competing. Had Daimler not come out of a messy divorce with Chrysler then I think they might have made Ford an offer for all of PAG a while back (just my opinion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Joint development really is nothing new among auto makers. I don't think it signals any type of alliance but rather a cost cutting measure. I don't think Daimler was interested in PAG... It would almost seem comical if they picked up JLR just as they managed to ditch Chrysler. What rationale would they have to ditch a money pit to pick up another money pit? JLR has a lot of future issues that has to be addressed, and I don't think Daimler would have the slightest interest in dealing with it long term. When it comes to Volvo, what would Daimler have to gain from it? It certainly wouldn't give them any new markets. Those are my sentiments exactly. While the XF is doing well, I'd like to see some long term success with a vehicle line. It seems to me that Jaguar vehicles do fine the first year, but right after the sales start to ween big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalepsy Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Jags have followers that will buy the new vehicles, but there are only few of them. The problem with Jag ha always been that it isn't able to convert anyone to its brand. The same people buying Jags are the same people that already drive Jags. After the first year, you are out of buyers. It just cannot compare to the other makes in terms of technology. With LR, it'll definitely be interesting to see how a brand that only makes SUVs deal with the CAFE issue. Those are my sentiments exactly. While the XF is doing well, I'd like to see some long term success with a vehicle line. It seems to me that Jaguar vehicles do fine the first year, but right after the sales start to ween big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Apparently, M-B is talking with Aston-Martin, and thus any interest in JLR is probably non-existant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I think they have it already. It seems to be some convoluted agreement where both parents companies are allowed to use the moniker. There are a lot of stipulations about HOW it can be used though, but I'm unsure of the exact wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 It seems to be some convoluted agreement where both parents companies are allowed to use the moniker. There are a lot of stipulations about HOW it can be used though, but I'm unsure of the exact wording. Daimler Benz can use it for a company name, but can not put it on a car. JLR can put it on a car, but can not use it as a company name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Daimler Benz can use it for a company name, but can not put it on a car. JLR can put it on a car, but can not use it as a company name. Sounds about right, but I believe it's even a bit more complicated. You know how corporate lawyers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Volvo is not for sale http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/05/ford-st...s-not-for-sale/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Volvo is not for salehttp://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/05/ford-st...s-not-for-sale/ Too bad that article goes on and on about Ford's moving of Volvo around as the company's attempt to position it for sale. Why can't people just report facts without burying it in 'I think..' or 'maybe this will happen' nonsense. What I meant to include with the whole 'Daimler' name bit, is the fact that it went with Jaguar over to TATA. Bear in mind that Daimler AG owns a small percentage of TATA, so take it for what it is worth. The situation in terms of how Jaguar and LR will handle future powertrain development is unique to that of Aston Martin. It is my understanding that Ford did not retain stake in JLR, whereas it did with AM. Hence the need for JLR to come up with their own powertrains, etc. I pray to god that TATA guts future Range Rover products, because they are a mis-mash of Ford and BMW electronics (hence their lousy quality scores). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8A4RE Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 it is a shame that people like u don't know how to count; why don't u see how many posts i have made into a new thread. this is one reason why the us automakers are in such dire traits; it has employees who don't know how to count. worse, look at the present generation of high schoolers, their math levels are atrociously low. rmc, u, represent america at the highest level, see how and where it ends. And what level of education did you make it to? Your grammer sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsakingcpa Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 even cnbc says ford might sell volvo: Ford And Why I Think It Will Sell Volvo--Do You Agree? Posted By:Phil LeBeau Topics:CEOs and CFOs | Economy (U.S.) | Automobile Industry Sectors:Automobiles and Parts Companies:Ford Motor Company Ford CNBC.com Ask yourself a question, and be honest: If you ran Ford, would you hang on to Volvo and continue sinking money into turning around the brand or would you unload it as soon as you got a decent price? It really is that simple for Ford F loading... % Quote | Chart | News | Profile [F Loading... (%) ] CEO Alan Mulally. Yes, I know the man running Ford and his lieutenants all say Volvo is not for sale. Before we get into this debate let me say I think Mulally's being straight with us, while not telling us his long range plans. True, Volvo's not for sale right now. Do I think that will change in the future? You bet. Job 1 at Ford is fixing Ford. And from Mulally's perspective, you get there by shedding brands (Aston Martin, Jaguar, and Land Rover are either gone or going) and making sure Ford (the brand) is the best it can be. That means focusing on streamlining costs, product development, marketing, etc. And to make sure that turnaround works, you need a singular focus and cash. Two things Mulally gets if and when he sells Volvo. related content Canadian auto workers ratify 3-year Ford contract Ford to offer buyouts to 1,300 workers in Illinois, Kentucky So why not sell Volvo right now? The time isn't right. The credit markets are horrible. Potential buyers won't give Ford the $5-$6 billion Volvo is worth. So Mulally will sit and wait for the right time. But from my perspective (and many others in the auto industry) the European brand will eventually be sold. Remember, Ford is leveraged to the hilt, and at some point Mulally and his crew will need to repay the loans. If you were him, and you had the chance to secure some cash to give yourself a little breathing room wouldn't you do it? Finally, take a look at Volvo? This brand has a strong reputation that it built in the years leading up to Ford buying it in '99. But since then, you could say Ford's been more of a caretaker than an enhancer of Volvo's reputation. Yes, I know Volvo fans will say, "Our quality and safety are still among the best in the industry and these cars are beloved." 0k, but how much of that is because of Ford? All of these factors explain why I think Mulally will eventually sell Volvo. If you disagree, let me know. Questions? Comments? © 2008 CNBC, Inc. All Rights Reserved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Sorry but until word is given from Dearborn, it is all heresy. Besides this guy has posted more than once about Ford's potential sale of Volvo (almost a year ago). He hasn't really added any sound reasoning, not to mention he was totally off base last year. If I were him I would have left my opinion out of the topic all together, as it seems he has no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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