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Autocar: Is Volvo in crisis?/ Jaguar sales ROAR!

TStag

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TStag

TStag

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See: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/232614/

 

Interesting reading, those loses are awfull when you stop and think about it.

 

On a positive note I read that Jaguar has gone into sales over drive. All sales are up except on the XK which is down in line with the market generally. Global sales are said to be up by about 45% and the Jaguar XF is selling strongly (see link). Even the Jaguar X type is making a spirited fightback with a new range of Diesel engines, I think they mentioned having to lay on extra shifts to cope with explosive demand (I daren't say how much sales seemed to have gone up for the X type because I think the paper must have made a mistake). I'll post the full article when it becomes available but here is a taster:

 

http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-b...65233-20819459/

 

Sorry I couldn't resist, but after all the bad times at Jag I'm really happy to see them turn things around, they owe Ford big time for spending all that cash! Worried about down market Volvo. And can it really go upmarket and compete with JLR? Also why keep Volvo if you just plan to try and make it's models more bespoke and turn it in to JLR? Doesn't make sense why not keep the fixed JLR?

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Deanh

Deanh

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This board is becoming quite the joke.

 

The XF has been on sale for how long? Don't even get me started on the outdated and outclassed X Type.

Jag IMO has two winners, the XK and the XF, the new XJ I expect GREAT things from...BUT, and its a BIG but...US sales had better pick up BIG time or we may even see an exodus al Peugeot and Citroen..

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Edstock

Edstock

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This board is becoming quite the joke.

Depends on your sense of humor.

 

Anyway, it is good to see that Jaguar is doing OK, as it reaffirms that Ford made the right changes. And with an X-type diesel option, good to see that Jag is selling some.

 

And it does highlight that Volvo has a product problem. For what they cost, it seems that there is a value perception problem with the consumer, who just isn't buying like he used to. Maybe it's a styling problem, maybe it's a power problem; standard Volvos are not especially quick, relative to their competition, and Volvo discontinued their high-po "R" models, replacing them with "R" models with standard power and cosmetic add-ons.

 

The point is, senior Volvo management is due for a learning experience. Pull the pickle out. Volvo is like Mazda before its learning experience: new models are taking way, way too long to appear, and when they do, they are under-powered and lack content. No hi-po C-30, no AWD C-30, the XC-60 is taking forever to appear, as are replacements for the 40-50 vehicles; the 70 series need more power in standard models, and an R-series with 400hp; the S-80 is nice, but where's the hi-po model? Again, pull the pickle out: they're building cars, not F-18's.

 

Saab had/has the same problem; it took them forever to bring out hi-po turbo models, and when they did appear, they were over-priced, relative to the standard turbo models.

Edited by Edstock
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97svtgoin05gt

97svtgoin05gt

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I think this is just a sign of todays economics. The cross section of people with the cash to buy cars priced like Jags are opting for Benz, BMW, or Audi. I believe the XF is an awesome vehicle and will help to get things moving again at Jag but sales on cars in general are off, way off. Toyota announced today their profits fell 22% in the recent past quarter. Thats big news considering in recent quarters, they are the darling of the automotive business. When you only sell maybe 20,000 units a year in total and you start experiencing this type of slowdown, everyone gets nervous.

 

Volvo is a different story. Because of Volvo service practices, anyone and everyone I know that bought a Volvo has told me they won't do it again. Visits to their service departments cost like Audi or Benz visits. While Volvo would like to think they're on that same playing field the fact is they aren't. People who have the money for $800 regular service events aren't buying Volvos. Combine that with some others have stated regarding power deficits, slow design updates etc and you have the potential for big issues. Volvo can survive in my opinion, but they need to stop soaking their customers with rediculous service bills and get some new, more powerful offerings in the showrooms in a hurry.

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jpd80

jpd80

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Volvo's profits were spoiled for years when Jaguar and Land Rover weren't performing and now that Volvo has a

bad trot for 12 months and people are all over them. It's a case of changing their product mix around to suit the

newer times, there's an opportunity for Volvo to do that far more cost effectively with Jaguar or Land Rover.

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Edstock

Edstock

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It's a case of changing their product mix around to suit the newer times, there's an opportunity for Volvo to do that far more cost effectively with Jaguar or Land Rover.

I agree. But, it would be nice to see before 2015. Left to themselves, Volvo's management moves about as fast as a Swedish glacier.

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TStag

TStag

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Q1 Jaguar Sales

 

Europe

Jaguar sales down -16.1%

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pr/20080...-0803-Final.pdf

 

USA

Jaguar Sales down -18.1%

http://media.ford.com/pdf/march08sales.pdf

 

Bullshit T-Stag

 

I'm talking sales not registrations! There is the world of difference. Registrations take longer than sales to register. So in Q1 you will see strong sales and in Q2 strong registrations...... MORON

 

I will post the link as soon as the print goes on the net. Just to drum home the point.

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jon_the_limey

jon_the_limey

Posted
Posted (edited)
Volvo's profits were spoiled for years when Jaguar and Land Rover weren't performing and now that Volvo has a

bad trot for 12 months and people are all over them. It's a case of changing their product mix around to suit the

newer times, there's an opportunity for Volvo to do that far more cost effectively with Jaguar or Land Rover.

 

Groundhog day!

 

I know people here are keen to lump the perfidious english together but I would like to see some real evidence that Land Rover spoiled profits for PAG or weren't performing to expectations under Ford's ownership. Also I would like to see some evidence that Volvo's problems have only been for the last 12 months. I would agree however that Jaguar's problems were well known (the causes being the debatable part), chronic under-utilisation of Halewood's capacity for 5 years being probably the biggest one.

Edited by jon_the_limey
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Deanh

Deanh

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I'm talking sales not registrations! There is the world of difference. Registrations take longer than sales to register. So in Q1 you will see strong sales and in Q2 strong registrations...... MORON

 

I will post the link as soon as the print goes on the net. Just to drum home the point.

huh?...a car has to be sold to be registered,,,they go hand in hand, sales cannot outnumber registration and vice versa.....

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TStag

TStag

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And it does highlight that Volvo has a product problem. For what they cost, it seems that there is a value perception problem with the consumer, who just isn't buying like he used to. Maybe it's a styling problem, maybe it's a power problem; standard Volvos are not especially quick, relative to their competition, and Volvo discontinued their high-po "R" models, replacing them with "R" models with standard power and cosmetic add-ons.

 

I agree. I simply don't believe Volvo can push further upmarket into BMW, Mercedes, Jag and Range Rover territory. When you think of luxury brands you automatically roll those names off as if they have a right to be where they are. Volvo is really somewhere between Ford and BMW and will struggle to compete in the niche above. Their natural competion in Europe would be VW or a cut above. Making Volvo's more bespoke is high risk given the increased cost of components. Volvo's problem with lack of power actually applied to Jag when it was in PAG. Ford need better engines to take on the Germans if they are going to take Volvo up a class. Worse still Volvo's a made in the Euro zone which is very strong against the dollar (contrast this with the now weaking Pound that JLR has to contend with)

 

But then you look at Jag and it's FOUR month waiting list for the XF and it dawns on you that with a FOUR month waiting list it's unlikely that their revival is a flash in the pan. The super cool new XJ should further re-inforce the point. Over here dealers are saying people are going into showrooms to buy an XF but leave with another model because the waiting list is so long. Failing company? I think not. XF's are being seen everywhere now. They have hit the Jaguar Jackpot. Is it really a surprise that the JAGUAR brand could do this? How stupid was the person who didn't remember that the XJ used to be the top selling exec car in the world. The next XJ could terrify the German brands.

 

Truth is Ford fixed Jaguar and set Land Rover on the path to greatness. They are looking strong in a difficult market for premium car makers. Ford should have sold Volvo and kept JLR. Land Rover the worlds TOP SUV maker and Jag one of the worlds sexiest brands ever. Just because they spend billions to fix JLR doesn't mean that you should give up at the point you turn the company around. That's very bad strategy. Volvo should have been sold. What a terrible mistake to make! Jacques Nasser underestimated what it would take to fix JLR. Ford dumped billions in. But they've sold at the worst time ever and kept a company that is going down the toilet!

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TStag

TStag

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huh?...a car has to be sold to be registered,,,they go hand in hand, sales cannot outnumber registration and vice versa.....

 

No if I sell you a car but can't promise delivery for 4 months. Then the registration will be 4 months after the sale. The figures, which I'm hoping are published on the web soon are based on the sales that happen in the dealers before the cars are delived for Registration.

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Deanh

Deanh

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Posted (edited)
No if I sell you a car but can't promise delivery for 4 months. Then the registration will be 4 months after the sale. The figures, which I'm hoping are published on the web soon are based on the sales that happen in the dealers before the cars are delived for Registration.

perhaps it is different over there but here a vehicle is registered at the time of sale and a VIN number is required...a car cannot be sold without its 17 digits, a contract etc etc...otherwise it is just a promise, one that CAN be broken and is NOT legally binding....hypothetical would be the word. Thus it is NOT a sale until contracted AND registered.

Edited by Deanh
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TomServo92

TomServo92

Posted
Posted
See: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/232614/

 

Interesting reading, those loses are awfull when you stop and think about it.

 

On a positive note I read that Jaguar has gone into sales over drive. All sales are up except on the XK which is down in line with the market generally. Global sales are said to be up by about 45% and the Jaguar XF is selling strongly (see link). Even the Jaguar X type is making a spirited fightback with a new range of Diesel engines, I think they mentioned having to lay on extra shifts to cope with explosive demand (I daren't say how much sales seemed to have gone up for the X type because I think the paper must have made a mistake). I'll post the full article when it becomes available but here is a taster:

 

http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-b...65233-20819459/

 

Sorry I couldn't resist, but after all the bad times at Jag I'm really happy to see them turn things around, they owe Ford big time for spending all that cash! Worried about down market Volvo. And can it really go upmarket and compete with JLR? Also why keep Volvo if you just plan to try and make it's models more bespoke and turn it in to JLR? Doesn't make sense why not keep the fixed JLR?

 

“It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”

 

Dr. Carl Sagan

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Michael Reynolds

Michael Reynolds

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I agree. I simply don't believe Volvo can push further upmarket into BMW, Mercedes, Jag and Range Rover territory. When you think of luxury brands you automatically roll those names off as if they have a right to be where they are. Volvo is really somewhere between Ford and BMW and will struggle to compete in the niche above. Their natural competion in Europe would be VW or a cut above. Making Volvo's more bespoke is high risk given the increased cost of components. Volvo's problem with lack of power actually applied to Jag when it was in PAG. Ford need better engines to take on the Germans if they are going to take Volvo up a class. Worse still Volvo's a made in the Euro zone which is very strong against the dollar (contrast this with the now weaking Pound that JLR has to contend with)

 

But then you look at Jag and it's FOUR month waiting list for the XF and it dawns on you that with a FOUR month waiting list it's unlikely that their revival is a flash in the pan. The super cool new XJ should further re-inforce the point. Over here dealers are saying people are going into showrooms to buy an XF but leave with another model because the waiting list is so long. Failing company? I think not. XF's are being seen everywhere now. They have hit the Jaguar Jackpot. Is it really a surprise that the JAGUAR brand could do this? How stupid was the person who didn't remember that the XJ used to be the top selling exec car in the world. The next XJ could terrify the German brands.

 

Truth is Ford fixed Jaguar and set Land Rover on the path to greatness. They are looking strong in a difficult market for premium car makers. Ford should have sold Volvo and kept JLR. Land Rover the worlds TOP SUV maker and Jag one of the worlds sexiest brands ever. Just because they spend billions to fix JLR doesn't mean that you should give up at the point you turn the company around. That's very bad strategy. Volvo should have been sold. What a terrible mistake to make! Jacques Nasser underestimated what it would take to fix JLR. Ford dumped billions in. But they've sold at the worst time ever and kept a company that is going down the toilet!

 

So wait a second, now that Volvo is going through a slump all of a sudden Ford should have kept the brand that was virtually impossible to align with the rest of their global operations and dump the one that is? I guess all of those auditors that Ford paid should have spoken with you first? When the

 

And yes the XF has a 4 month waiting list, kudos to Jag. What makes something a success is sustained sales, and the XF hasn't even been on sale for 6 months stateside. I've seen two since their debut, and I live in an area where people have to have the latest and greatest before everyone else does. It is going to take a while before Jaguar resonates with enough Lexus, BMW, MB and Audi owners to pull them into the brands fray.

 

Why are your posts so one sided?

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Arniect

Arniect

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Posted

Two comments

 

1. Volvo needs some fresh product, thats a given, but they are by no means in 'crisis".

 

2. The XF is a pretty car, and is supposed to have a long waiting list. The local dealer has 4 of them sitting on the lot, the same 4 for the last month. Makes me wonder how true a 4 month waiting list claim is.

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