DOA: New Models That Don't Have a Chance

[2005Explorer]

That's because they can. The panther on the other hand is inflexible, part of the reason it should die.

 

Should and will die soon. I will be so happy the day it is dead so we don't have to talk about that antique car anymore around here. Modern unibody design is the future and has been the future for years. As for the Panther faithful... When Ford finally pulls the life support on the Panther you can buy a full sized BOF sedan from another car company.

Edited June 29, 2008 by 2005Explorer

[Michael Reynolds]

 

 

 

Irrelevant, they were D3s.

 

Exactly.

[matthewq4b]

That's because they can. The panther on the other hand is inflexible, part of the reason it should die.

 

 

Actually it was not inflexable it was just never utilized. In has sported station wagons, 2 doors, 4 doors and limos and Hearses. It Could have easily done light duty 2WD Rancho type P/U (in fact it gave up it's front supsension design for the last gen of 2wd F150's) Could have easily held a light duty van body-MPV on the chassis. Could have supported a rag top. It is not that the chassi was inflexable it was just never utlized to it's full pontial. Remeber when you have a sepatrate frame for the body to sit on thing the only thing limiting what body sits on it is your imagination. It is way eaiser to change and modify a full frame to accpet different body's than is a unit structure.

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

Actually it was not inflexable it was just never utilized. In has sported station wagons, 2 doors, 4 doors and limos and Hearses. It Could have easily done light duty 2WD Rancho type P/U (in fact it gave up it's front supsension design for the last gen of 2wd F150's) Could have easily held a light duty van body-MPV on the chassis. Could have supported a rag top. It is not that the chassi was inflexable it was just never utlized to it's full pontial. Remeber when you have a sepatrate frame for the body to sit on thing the only thing limiting what body sits on it is your imagination. It is way eaiser to change and modify a full frame to accpet different body's than is a unit structure.

 

Matthew

 

huh, learn something new every day. I would say though, that the D3 is probably more flexible and easier to change.

[armadamaster]

Should and will die soon. I will be so happy the day it is dead so we don't have to talk about that antique car anymore around here. Modern unibody design is the future and has been the future for years. As for the Panther faithful... When Ford finally pulls the life support on the Panther you can buy a full sized BOF sedan from another car company.

 

That's right Ford, you run those customers off.

[timmm55]

http://mercury.motorcentral.net/photo/19473/

[taxman100]

That's right Ford, you run those customers off.

 

 

It is an interesting study of corporate psycology that Ford would allow a vehicle and market segment that it literally made billions in profit during the 1990's to be so systematically ignored, and underutilized. They will basically walk away from the market in order to sell cheaper cars designed overseas - granted the price of gas is killing the market segment, but those who stopped buying Panthers are not staying with Ford, at least from looking at the sales numbers.

 

The platform long has had the reputation of being Fords best for durability and reliability - for years it was the only platform the non-Ford fanatics considered reliable or durable. I've owned other Fords, and I'm done buying anything from Ford that is front wheel drive, no matter what claims of "improvement" they may make.

 

I'm still waiting until the end to order my last Panther - I can sympathize with Ford in that you really only need to replace your Panther about every 200,000 miles, so if you can get someone hooked on buying lesser vehicles, you might see them more often.

 

Not exactly the attitude to have when trying to catch Toyota. Good for Ford that Toyota is becoming more slack on quality in the last few years, no to mention ugly.

[wescoent]

That's right Ford, you run those customers off.

 

Don't make me laugh.

 

There are no Panther customers left outside of fleet buyers and those in extreme old age.

[V8 Ford]

Remeber when you have a sepatrate frame for the body to sit on thing the only thing limiting what body sits on it is your imagination. It is way eaiser to change and modify a full frame to accpet different body's than is a unit structure.

 

Matthew

It's not that easy. With BOF, getting a new car out of the same platform is easy if the new shell has the same chassis requirements as the previous shell. If you start messing with the wheelbase, wheeltrack and overall requirements of the chassis in its new function, you start to get an idea of how flexible it really is. As you pointed out, Ford never did much beyond changing the shell with the panther so I can't comment on how flexible the panther really is. As far as the D3 goes, Ford has 4 body styles with 2 different wheelbases, and 3 different wheeltracks. That's an impressive display of flexibility.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

[silvrsvt]

It is an interesting study of corporate psycology that Ford would allow a vehicle and market segment that it literally made billions in profit during the 1990's to be so systematically ignored, and underutilized.

 

What the fuck are you smoking? there is no way that the Panthers where bringing in the anywhere near what the Explorer or the F-series was doing in their heydays sales wise.

 

The panthers where lucky to crack 150-200K units combined for the past 15 year or so

[papilgee4evaeva]

It's not that easy. With BOF, getting a new car out of the same platform is easy if the new shell has the same chassis requirements as the previous shell. If you start messing with the wheelbase, wheeltrack and overall requirements of the chassis in its new function, you start to get an idea of how flexible it really is. As you pointed out, Ford never did much beyond changing the shell with the panther so I can't comment on how flexible the panther really is. As far as the D3 goes, Ford has 4 body styles with 2 different wheelbases, and 3 different wheeltracks. That's an impressive display of flexibility.

 

I haven't studied the platform in depth, but there also looks to be a limit as to how much power the platform can take as well without heavy modification... which is strange for a RWD platform these days.

 

Also, is there any reason that they never could put any more than four gears on it?

[NickF1011]

Also, is there any reason that they never could put any more than four gears on it?

 

It's probably less a matter of couldn't, but more a matter of won't bother. The transmission tunnel would likely need to be modified to fit a 5 or 6 speed auto in it and Ford likely figured that sort of investment wasn't worthwhile. Throw in that Ford overall has been pretty slow to adopt 5+ gear transmissions for its V8s across the board, and there you have it.

[bb62]

What the fuck are you smoking? there is no way that the Panthers where bringing in the anywhere near what the Explorer or the F-series was doing in their heydays sales wise.

 

The panthers where lucky to crack 150-200K units combined for the past 15 year or so

 

The statement is quite true, the Lincoln Town Car and the CV/GM twins were each bringing in about $1 billion in after tax profits back in the early 1990s. At the time the Town Car was selling about 130K units and the CV/GM was in the 150K range (if my memory serves me correct on this one). I was in a position to know and can tell you that these vehicles (along with some of the trucks) were the drivers for all Ford profits in those days.

[bobm]

Also, is there any reason that they never could put any more than four gears on it?

 

The reason is that the push rod V-8 makes so much low rpm torque that it doesn't need extra gears to get going. The little cammer V-6 needs more gears to give adequate acceleration along with fuel efficient low rpm cruising. The sad part to me, is that the wife's new MKX, with all the latest tech, gets no better gas mileage in suburban driving than her 12 yr old Roadmaster wagon even though the Buick has much more room & weighs 500# more than the Lincoln. This is progress?

[papilgee4evaeva]

The reason is that the push rod V-8 makes so much low rpm torque that it doesn't need extra gears to get going. The little cammer V-6 needs more gears to give adequate acceleration along with fuel efficient low rpm cruising.

 

If that were the case, then makers of turbocharged DOHC engines would find it adequate to mate them with only 4-speed transmissions. As it stands, I can't think of one that uses less than 5 gears.

 

Oh yeah, the Panther-mobiles use a SOHC engine, not a pushrod.

 

The sad part to me, is that the wife's new MKX, with all the latest tech, gets no better gas mileage in suburban driving than her 12 yr old Roadmaster wagon even though the Buick has much more room & weighs 500# more than the Lincoln. This is progress?

 

Aerodynamics. The MKX is curvy enough but rather tall compared to the Roadmaster and therefore more wind-resistant. Plus, it also depends how your wife drives.

[armadamaster]

Don't make me laugh.

 

There are no Panther customers left outside of fleet buyers and those in extreme old age.

 

 

Only because Ford has spent years RUNNING THEM OFF.

 

The sad part to me, is that the wife's new MKX, with all the latest tech, gets no better gas mileage in suburban driving than her 12 yr old Roadmaster wagon even though the Buick has much more room & weighs 500# more than the Lincoln. This is progress?

 

[Daryll40]

Only because Ford has spent years RUNNING THEM OFF.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. I saw my first Flex AWD Limited Loaded today stickering at $42,000 evenish. MPGs are 16/22. Not a bad vehicle, but I can't imagine they'll sell too many with that mileage in this market. Particularly for a while as they are going to have to have a massive firesale to clear the dust-gathering Explorers littering up the dealer lots. True, Explorer gets 13/19, but at $10,000 to $12,000 less than a new Flex (my estimate of what it will take to clear out that metal), Explorer is the better value for a vehicle in that size category.

[ANTAUS]

Here's one I just posted in the competition forum, thats pretty much DOA...a bit too late to the party, Kia Borrego.

 

 

LINK-Edmunds.com

[NickF1011]

Exactly. I saw my first Flex AWD Limited Loaded today stickering at $42,000 evenish. MPGs are 16/22. Not a bad vehicle, but I can't imagine they'll sell too many with that mileage in this market. Particularly for a while as they are going to have to have a massive firesale to clear the dust-gathering Explorers littering up the dealer lots. True, Explorer gets 13/19, but at $10,000 to $12,000 less than a new Flex (my estimate of what it will take to clear out that metal), Explorer is the better value for a vehicle in that size category.

 

People don't give a crap about value. I mean seriously. They just want the next new thing on the block.....which ain't the Explorer.

[Daryll40]

People don't give a crap about value. I mean seriously. They just want the next new thing on the block.....which ain't the Explorer.

 

 

Not in THIS market and even for those few willing to pay the juice for the "new thing"....they are few and far between and won't last long.

[NickF1011]

Not in THIS market and even for those few willing to pay the juice for the "new thing"....they are few and far between and won't last long.

 

Those who are willing to buy at ALL these days are likely the ones looking for the "new thing". They're probably the only ones who can afford it.

[630land]

It is great to see Honda and Beemer get trashed by Edmunds.com for once!!

 

Car and Drivel always has orgasms over any new Honda, and the Accord is now a big car, what they criticized for decades. They once knocked the Dodge Intrepid since it was "bigger than we like". But now, the Accord, which is even bigger, is "the perfect car".

 

And that Beemer 6 "SUV" is pure $@#$!#!#.

[630land]

"People don't give a crap about value. I mean seriously. They just want the next new thing on the block.....which ain't the Explorer."

 

Umm, than why is there so much traffic on the net by people looking for the best price? Why is Toyota #1 brand? Trendiness sells, but "bread and butter" products are the back bone of car biz.

[NickF1011]

"People don't give a crap about value. I mean seriously. They just want the next new thing on the block.....which ain't the Explorer."

 

Umm, than why is there so much traffic on the net by people looking for the best price? Why is Toyota #1 brand? Trendiness sells, but "bread and butter" products are the back bone of car biz.

 

Searching for the best price is one thing...nobody wants to overpay. That doesn't mean they care about value. They just don't want to be ripped off when they go to buy the thing they really don't need to buy. I compared prices when I bought my 61" HDTV. A better value for me probably would have been a smaller television. I really have no NEED for a 61" HDTV, but I wanted it.

 

And bread and butter only sells if the bread and butter are fresh. I'd bet even the Camry would fall out of favor FAST if they didn't update it every few years -- witness what has happened to the Explorer and a bevy of other "new" vehicles that don't look all that new anymore.