RangerM Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 (edited) We've been seeing pics of the Verve/Fiesta for a long time, but AFAIK I've yet to see a Focus pic. (American version) They ARE coming out with a new one for 2010 aren't they? Edited July 6, 2008 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Not 2010 MY, it might be seen or produced sometime in 2010, but it will be a 2011 at the earliest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share Posted July 6, 2008 Not 2010 MY, it might be seen or produced sometime in 2010, but it will be a 2011 at the earliest. I thought they'd (whoever 'they' is) said that the current Focus would be produced for 2 years (08 and 09, I presume) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noub Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 No, the focus will be launch in the whole world in CY 2010. That's why you did see any mules. You've seen a lot of pictures of the fiesta because it is launched right now in Europe and at the end of this year in the rest of the world. That is the only 'global car' to be launched with a big delay in the US. Next year, the ford US team will lauch the last 2 model specific to the US (fusion and taurus) and then, all Ford cars will be global. Timescale 2010 - B and C cars: fiesta, ecosport, focus and c-max 2011 - escape/kuga 2012 - fusion/mondeo maybe after merge between the taurus and the AU falcon ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManFord Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 No, the focus will be launch in the whole world in CY 2010. That's why you did see any mules. You've seen a lot of pictures of the fiesta because it is launched right now in Europe and at the end of this year in the rest of the world. That is the only 'global car' to be launched with a big delay in the US. Next year, the ford US team will lauch the last 2 model specific to the US (fusion and taurus) and then, all Ford cars will be global. Timescale 2010 - B and C cars: fiesta, ecosport, focus and c-max 2011 - escape/kuga 2012 - fusion/mondeo maybe after merge between the taurus and the AU falcon ??? Maybe the taurus will stay american specific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Maybe the taurus will stay american specific I actually wouldn't be surprised, or at least I wouldn't surprised at it continuing on on the D3 chassis rather than being merged w/ the RWD Falcon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 the original plan was to built the Taurus as the next AU Fairlane - but that might have changed. if it did - we will be looking at a stretched EUCD2/CD4 platform. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) the original plan was to built the Taurus as the next AU Fairlane - but that might have changed. if it did - we will be looking at a stretched EUCD2/CD4 platform. Igor FoA were looking at the MKS as a replacement for the LTD, now that would be a classy move, perhaps for FoE as well? Taurus as Fairlane was considered but FG Falcon was made slightly bigger to compensate. Falcon now has near identical internal dimensions as the Crown Victoria but is lucky to be 195" long. Edited July 7, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 FoA were looking at the MKS as a replacement for the LTD,now that would be a classy move, perhaps for FoE as well? Taurus as Fairlane was considered but FG Falcon was made slightly bigger to compensate. Falcon now has near identical internal dimensions as the Crown Victoria but is lucky to be 195" long. interesting - that makes sense. Do you know whether those plans were shuffled around in the recent weeks? Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) interesting - that makes sense. Do you know whether those plans were shuffled around in the recent weeks? Igor Fairlane sales have migrated to the shorter wheelbase Fairmont Ghia (now G6E) and Territory Ghia. Unless an imported Ford is something really special, the Holden Statesman and Caprice will kill it. FoA are still in roll out mode with the FG Falcon - the turbos are now arriving in dealerships but I think the luxury G6E turbo model is it for now but who knows if Ford NA puts together a RHD MKS flagship for export. I think it's a great car and our Aussie Ford forums give it the thumbs up too! The MKS would sell for about $75,000 in Australia, so even 250-300/month would be excellent . Igor can you explain something, I know we now have CD3, EUCD and D3 but the "C" bit on the first two platforms is not being used any more and is filled by C1 which looks to be growing in Kuga form. History surrounding D3 when it was the Volvo P2 platform suggests only small to large D sized cars were built on the platform - much the same as EUCD and CD3 (except in the USA of course). My question is this: Given that EUCD and CD3 cars are now too big for most European buyers,could we see an amagalmation of EUCD, CD3 and D3 to form a platform for everything above C1 and derivatives? Edited July 7, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Fairlane sales have migrated to the shorter wheelbase Fairmont Ghia (now G6E) and Territory Ghia.Unless an imported Ford is something really special, the Holden Statesman and Caprice will kill it. FoA are still in roll out mode with the FG Falcon - the turbos are now arriving in dealerships but I think the luxury G6E turbo model is it for now but who knows if Ford NA puts together a RHD MKS flagship for export. I think it's a great car and our Aussie Ford forums give it the thumbs up too! The MKS would sell for about $75,000 in Australia, so even 250-300/month would be excellent . Igor can you explain something, I know we now have CD3, EUCD and D3 but the "C" bit on the first two platforms is not being used any more and is filled by C1 which looks to be growing in Kuga form. History surrounding D3 when it was the Volvo P2 platform suggests only small to large D sized cars were built on the platform - much the same as EUCD and CD3 (except in the USA of course). My question is this: Given that EUCD and CD3 cars are now too big for most European buyers,could we see an amagalmation of EUCD, CD3 and D3 to form a platform for everything above C1 and derivatives? If the current Mondeo proves to be too big and failure (and smaller mid-size cars like the Accord (EU) start gaining on it, you might see Ford react, but it seems the EU mid-size market has moved quickly to the US Mid size sizes - the new C5, Laguna, Mondeo, Insignia etc - are all on the size of the current US mid size sedans. That said, the D3 cars are even bigger. The EUCD and CD3 will merge into next EUCD (also sometimes refered to as CD4). I expect it to continue the legacy of EUCD in using C2 bits as much as possible. However the current EUCD (AFAIK) cannot stretch to accomodate Flex or MKS (the longest WLB on D3) and am not sure whether the cost and manufacturing advantages of the EUCD-C1 linkage can be preserved if EUCD is to stretch to 120" WB. If my worries are true, developing a new CD-D platform - more independent from the C platform might make a lot of sense - financially and technologically. There is also a good chance, that Ford NA will have a proprietary version of the future EUCD that will be frankensteined to support the future versions of D3 cars. Meaning - with Ford NA being the only one needing this large of FWD cars - Ford Global might decide that it is not worth sacrificing the benefits of the C1/EUCD combo just for the large NA cars - and they could decide to let ford NA take EUCD and move it beyond its inherent flexibility - basically developing a new platform with larger wheelbase, and probably added width. At this point there is a lot of questions out there and not too many answers - I expect the answers to start arriving this fall/winter once the dust settles from the US-market shift. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noub Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Another solution would be to reduce the size of the mondeo in order to introduce a new flagship also in Europe. The current mondeo is between the BMW 3 Series and 5 Series. I have heard that Ford would considere to introduce a new flgship even in Europe as it planned to go upscale. I guess this car could also be imported from US where volume for such a car will always be more important. regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 That said, the D3 cars are even bigger. Igor Only Ford D3 is used for really big vehicles.. Volvo still uses P2 to produce the S60 (181" long with 106.9" wheelbase) which is slightly bigger than Focus sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Someone decided to base the Volvo S80 off the EUCD instead of the D3. This resulted in the Mondeo in being bigger than it needed to be. The EUCD is a flexible platform so there really is no reason for the Mondeo to be the same length as the other EUCDs. I would like to see Europe to take over the design of the D3 replacement. Keep it different platform from the EUCD but convert it to use the same engineering as the C2, and EUCD. It can still be designed in the US and sold only in the US if need be, but managed by Ford of Europe. Ford could scale the Mondeo to be a little smaller. Europe could have the Galaxy based off the D3 if they want. Volvo could bring out an S100 off the D3. The D3 needs to stay huge. Ford need to address the issue of CUV and Mini Vans needing to be wider in the US than Europe. Ford also has to handle the development cost of having both a D3 and GRWD. To resolve all of this, the D3 must start share all EUCD parts but the frame and chasis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noub Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Battyr, can the D3 platform be replaced with the new global RWD plarform for the next generation of cars/SUV. Assuming that, the taurus would merge with the falcon, explorer with the new territory, ... So that, ford will only have 4 platforms except for trucks: - B cars, C2, EUCD2 and the new GRWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hypothetical, The D2C Mustang uses a "highly modified version" of DEW with Mac struts suspension. Well, why not start with a C1/C2 and make a RWD 'Stang from that? I'm sure that would be just as easy and far lighter than the current 'Stang with the added benefit of Focus already having a convertable version - some engineering already there. A new "Falcon could be a RWD version of the next Fusion/Mondeo and satisfy a niche that way. Basically, what I'm suggesting is set up plants for the mainstream FWDs and have RWD as a variation that can be built down the same lines. That way they share a lot of engineering and are much easier to build as supplimentals instead of dedicated factories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Battyr, can the D3 platform be replaced with the new global RWD plarform for the next generation of cars/SUV. Assuming that, the taurus would merge with the falcon, explorer with the new territory, ... So that, ford will only have 4 platforms except for trucks: - B cars, C2, EUCD2 and the new GRWD I think that is the direction that Ford is heading. I think if Ford has a larger US Fusion based off the Mondeo, then the Taurus can be built as a low volume GWRD. If the next Taurus is a RWD hit, it can still get more sales than the current one. I think this might be important to get the volume that the GRWD platform needs. The problem is that the Flex becomes an orghan based off the D3 platform. The Edge is too heavy as a result of over stretching the CD3 platform (Fusion). US buyers demand width in such a high priced vehicle. It would make more sense to make the next Edge, US CUVs, and Mini Vans off the D4 not EUCD2. The Volvo V90 needs to be replaced. I would think the V90's profit is in the US, so it needs to be off a wide Platform, the D4. Note that the C2 will be Ford of Europes standard platform. Both the B and EUCD2 with have shared engineering, a few shared parts and shared manufacturing techneques. The D4 should be the same, but wider with bigger engines. The D4 could be the starting point to designing the next Transit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hypothetical,The D2C Mustang uses a "highly modified version" of DEW with Mac struts suspension. Well, why not start with a C1/C2 and make a RWD 'Stang from that? I'm sure that would be just as easy and far lighter than the current 'Stang with the added benefit of Focus already having a convertable version - some engineering already there. A new "Falcon could be a RWD version of the next Fusion/Mondeo and satisfy a niche that way. Basically, what I'm suggesting is set up plants for the mainstream FWDs and have RWD as a variation that can be built down the same lines. That way they share a lot of engineering and are much easier to build as supplimentals instead of dedicated factories. I see little value in RWD unless you do it right. I don't think a C2 would work well with a 400 HP V8 in front, pushing all the torq to the rear. Both the Mustang, and the Falcons have very powerful engines. If you don't have all the power, then I see little need for RWD over FWD/AWD. I would rather see one all new platform, wide and with many different wheelbases to replace the Falcon, Mustang, CV/GM, Explorer, large Lincolns and anything else that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 --width-- Widening a platforms is, apparently, more difficult than lengthening it. A key factor, especially with the Flex, is width. CD4 (its most likely nomenclature, as it will not be "EU" specific, regardless of how much EUCD rear architecture it inherits) if it is as wide as EUCD/CD3 may not be suitable as a basis for the large Lincoln/Ford/Mercury products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The Edge is too heavy as a result of over stretching the CD3 platform (Fusion). the reason I heard was that it inherited design that was supposed to be shared with a minivan that never came about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 the reason I heard was that it inherited design that was supposed to be shared with a minivan that never came about. That is some what consistant with what I am saying. In any case, a competitive US minivan is a wide vehicle. When you widen a platform the safety of the crash structure changes. Then you have to add reinforcement to keep it safe. A larger, heavier platform will flex more so it will have to be reinforced more. You would end up with less weight by using a platform that was designed to be that size to start with. In the case of the Volvo S60 they started with an S80's platform and made it narrower, but did not lose enough weight. You always need a platform that is designed for the size (width) of car you are making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 the reason I heard was that it inherited design that was supposed to be shared with a minivan that never came about. That minivan ended up being the Flex. They decided to use the D3 platform platform instead because they needed a stronger platform with less weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Another solution would be to reduce the size of the mondeo in order to introduce a new flagship also in Europe. The current mondeo is between the BMW 3 Series and 5 Series. I have heard that Ford would considere to introduce a new flgship even in Europe as it planned to go upscale. I guess this car could also be imported from US where volume for such a car will always be more important. regards I wonder if the new (2010) Taurus could be sold in Europe as a flagship for the Ford brand? Edited July 8, 2008 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 The Volvo V90 needs to be replaced. I would think the V90's profit is in the US, so it needs to be off a wide Platform, the D4. Do you mean the V70 or the XC90? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noub Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I do not know if the new taurus can be sold in Europe. The biggest car to be sold is a 7 series BMW ! If it is longer than that, no way !! I also think that the ford brand needs to work a little bit more to go upscale. Before going to the taurus/falcon size, I can see a mondeo cc and then the next taurus in 2014 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.