Obama

[Edstock]

Well, at least I was right about the article you posted Edstack. If the Republicans don't know much about the health care bill, it looks like the Democrats know even less.

Hey — you could be right, but it appears that most of 'em know that humans weren't created 10,000 years ago and talked to a snake shortly thereafter.

 

And the GOP elite, with "the Family", God-walloping adulterers. Amazing mind-set. Doonesbury takes a look:

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/...l_date=20090803

 

But you have to wonder, is it End of Days for the US? Does a political Rapture approach? Slate wonders. Fascinating series of how the US might come to an end.

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2223851

 

[RangerM]

"Me and the neo-cons are back from our little spin Barack. Here's the keys!"

Very funny, Retro.

 

Here's what it looks like after Barack gets back from his joyride.

[macattak1]

He was black enough to make a lot of black people happy - and to send a few skinheads off a-plottin'. Who were these other black American presidents that you allude to? (And Clinton's appetite for big booty and playing the sax with sunglasses on doesn't count.)

 

For some people, and Obama himself, white + black = black.

For me it just means mixed race, bi-racial, what ever.

 

His father was Arabic 43.75%

His Great Great Grandparent was African Negro 6.25%

He is simply biracial or what ever one likes to call it. Less then 10% black.

The govt. does not generally recognize any racial % less then 12% from what I have read.

 

http://www.diversityinc.com/public/1461.cfm

Research shows at least five U.S. presidents had black ancestors and Thomas Jefferson, the nation's third president, was considered the first black president, according to historian Leroy Vaughn, author of Black People and Their Place in World History.

 

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/ja...d0121steinjan21

 

Don't forget about Bill Clinton. He was also the first black president?

 

And no. I am not making fun or light of this. I personally don't care. What I don't like is someone posing as something they clearly are not.

 

Peace and Blessings

[retro-man]

For some people, and Obama himself, white + black = black.

For me it just means mixed race, bi-racial, what ever.

 

His father was Arabic 43.75%

His Great Great Grandparent was African Negro 6.25%

He is simply biracial or what ever one likes to call it. Less then 10% black.

The govt. does not generally recognize any racial % less then 12% from what I have read.

 

http://www.diversityinc.com/public/1461.cfm

 

 

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/ja...d0121steinjan21

 

Don't forget about Bill Clinton. He was also the first black president?

 

And no. I am not making fun or light of this. I personally don't care. What I don't like is someone posing as something they clearly are not.

 

Peace and Blessings

You're splitting hairs. It's like the EPA calling the PT Cruiser a truck. No, it's not a truck regardless of your tricky classification. Last time I checked, Kenya was in sub-Saharan (i.e. "black") Africa. As far as the media, me, a lot of other folks, the Aryan Nations, and roughly 40 million American blacks are concerned, the dude is black. The reality of the perception is that his election is a social watershed. However you want to split it. Yes, I am fully aware that he is half white.

[suv_guy_19]

Mac, he's black....It's about his skin color. People weren't oppressed in the past because of racial percentages.

[retro-man]

Very funny, Retro.

 

Here's what it looks like after Barack gets back from his joyride.

Well, it'll be cathartic at least...... right?

[RangerM]

Well, it'll be cathartic at least...... right?

Depends on whether you were in the back of the ambulance or not.

[retro-man]

Depends on whether you were in the back of the ambulance or not.

We're all in the back of the ambulance now.

 

I guess it's important to remember that.

[RangerM]

We're all in the back of the ambulance now.

 

I guess it's important to remember that.

Of course. But I don't want to be in the back of that ambulance.

[Edstock]

[macattak1]

You're splitting hairs. It's like the EPA calling the PT Cruiser a truck. No, it's not a truck regardless of your tricky classification. Last time I checked, Kenya was in sub-Saharan (i.e. "black") Africa. As far as the media, me, a lot of other folks, the Aryan Nations, and roughly 40 million American blacks are concerned, the dude is black. The reality of the perception is that his election is a social watershed. However you want to split it. Yes, I am fully aware that he is half white.

 

I'm sorry. 6.25% is spiting hairs?

 

A bank tells you 5% interest but only gives you 0.3125% and tells you that you are splitting hairs when you bring it up?

Nor does what the EPA define have anything to do with it.

 

I am guessing that you are not under the impression that the US or North America is All White. So why are you under some impression that All Africa is Black?

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

Mac, he's black....It's about his skin color. People weren't oppressed in the past because of racial percentages.

 

Then be fair. He's clearly Arabic. Is there something wrong with Arabic that we hide it and call it Black? If its about skin color, don't change his skin color. Arabs have been just as discriminated against. Worse now.

[suv_guy_19]

I don't think Arabic can be used in a classification similar to skin colour. Black isn't an ethnicity. His skin is black. End of story. You really are splitting hairs.

[macattak1]

Poor me. I guess I am irrelevant because you say so. Especially since you found someone to parrot. You might consider taking a debate class and learn the rules of simple debate. You don't have to follow all of them all of the time. However, 'No' (End of Story) is not looked upon favorably in discussion or debate.

 

---

 

Ethnicity

1 : ethnic quality or affiliation <aspects of ethnicity>

2 : a particular ethnic affiliation or group <students of diverse ethnicities>

Then he would be the first Arab president.

 

Ethnic

2 a : of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background

 

Black has huge variations within the black community. Nigerians are some of the darkest skinned blacks around. They are often treated poorly and discriminated against by 'blacks' in their own regions and countries or when they come to places like the US where the 'blacks' treat them as often 'too' black.

 

Fortunately, you do not get to create the rule that says Arabs don't have a skin color, and if they do, they are just Black. I am sure many Arabs would tell you differently.

 

There could be, just maybe, a possibility, that you are wrong. I know its not so big as to warrant any concern on your part.

[retro-man]

Here are some pictures of Barack Obama's (Kenyan) father:

 

Here, we'll use Prince Saud al Faisal (of Saudi Arabia) as our reference Arab:

 

Go ask 100 people on the street if either of these is a black guy, or if they're both Arabs, and tell me what kind of answers you get.

 

Call him what you want Mac, but it's painfully clear you're getting all your ideas from people who are desperate to minimize the event, and to shoot the guy down instead of simply believing your own eyes and common sense. (Not to mention newspapers and broadcasts from all over the world.) In fact, it's remarkable how determined you seem to twist everything about the guy. It seems almost obsessive. I can't tell if you're disturbed about Obama's policies, or simply "disturbed".

Edited August 9, 2009 by retro-man

[suv_guy_19]

Black has huge variations within the black community.

 

Yep, and Obama is part of that variation. Arab is not the same type of category as black. There are black Arabs, there are brown Arabs....there are even some white Arabs. Obama doesn't identify himself as an Arab as far as I know...and he's has dark skin, skin that many would consider black.

[RangerM]

Why does it matter what BO's skin color is?

 

I don't like/dislike the man for what he looks like. I dislike his policy.

 

I find it strange that we make a big deal about the "first black president". The fact that it's made such a big deal may be indicative of how far we (as a country) have left to go.

 

Americans diefy certain people, forgetting that they are people. JFK (along with the rest of the K's) is the one I find the most perplexing.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Yes, yes I would. Actually, I supported Perot against Clinton. I was hoping to see Ross Perot break the 2 party hold. I think he had a good handle on the fleecing of the American people by the corporate government complex. But it turns out he only wanted to shake up the discussion - he didn't really want to be President. Too bad for us.

 

As for Clinton, when he said "I didn't inhale", what I heard was "I'm lying to you right now, and I will lie to you every day I'm in office, but you'll take it because you need me." The lying was audacious. I will grant you that.

 

However, I would suggest to you that, right up to this last election, we were living in Reagan's America - never really Clinton's. Just as right up through Carter - even in Nixon's time - we were very much living in FDR's America. Nixon (speaking of sleaze and corruption - modern times have no monopoly) politically and socially was not at all to the right of Clinton. The Reagan revolution swept everything to the right, Democrats included. But, Bush II represents the decadent phase of the Reagan revolution. He broke it. He broke it real good. Nobody who supported him really has any right to complain about the fallout. The election of Obama is a sea change - not just socially, with the election of America's first "black" president (and I will give Bush credit for creating the climate for that to happen - both in the positive sense by having people like Rice and Powell in his administration, and in the negative sense by screwing up so many things so bad that the American public came to throw the whole thing out) but politically and probably economically too. I don't know what the place is going to look like in 10 years, but I think it's going to be a better place than 2001 - 2008 were. That's the way it goes: you get your Hoovers, your Carters, and your 'W's, and they bring whatever regime they came in on to an end, and the counterpart takes its place. The pendulum swings. We'll be ok.

 

Well said Retroman.

 

 

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

Albert Einstein

[Mark B. Morrow]

Then be fair. He's clearly Arabic. Is there something wrong with Arabic that we hide it and call it Black? If its about skin color, don't change his skin color. Arabs have been just as discriminated against. Worse now.

 

 

He's not Arabic. His color is a mix of his African Father and White Mother (did you forget about her?). In the U.S at the time he was born Obama was Black (or Negro). Black or African Americans have great variations in skin color just as White or Caucasians do. I'm considered White but have an olive tone. My ex-wife was a fair Redhead. Both White but very different.

[suv_guy_19]

I find it strange that we make a big deal about the "first black president". The fact that it's made such a big deal may be indicative of how far we (as a country) have left to go.

 

 

I don't think so. Rather, I think it indicates how far you've come. Given even recent history, what Barack Obama was able to do was quite spectacular. Believe it or not, institutional racism does still exist today. I didn't realize it until I was made aware of it. Blacks are still very much an underclass in the US (just as Aboriginals are here) and it can be seen at every turn....and it shouldn't be like that. Obama's election is an important step in the right direction, but maybe you're right. There is still a long way to go. That can be seen in the polls that showed 17% of Americans would not vote for Obama because of his skin colour.

 

Whatever the case, this event is a watershed moment, and one which will probably change America forever.

[retro-man]

Why does it matter what BO's skin color is?

 

I don't like/dislike the man for what he looks like. I dislike his policy.

 

I find it strange that we make a big deal about the "first black president". The fact that it's made such a big deal may be indicative of how far we (as a country) have left to go.

 

Americans diefy certain people, forgetting that they are people. JFK (along with the rest of the K's) is the one I find the most perplexing.

It was a huge deal to black people - and I know a few that I can have these conversations with. A lot of dreams were riding on that election. Yes - hopefully we will move toward a time when it doesn't matter at all, to anyone. But it did this time, and this was a milestone as SUV points out. To deny that fact, or to go through absurd mental contortions to turn him into an Arab shows a pathological ignorance of the reality.

 

In the event, it so happens that I agreed with his policies - at least the ones espoused during the election campaign. Am I tickled with everything I've seen since? No, of course not. A few examples:

- Letting a revolving door Goldman Sachs guy run TARP

- Keeping torture photos classified

- Not having the balls to put single payer on the table for discussion

 

I am not so disappointed that the economy and unemployment haven't turned around instantly during his first few months in office. From where I sit, I could tell as early as Summer of '07 that the economy (which I have been a critic of since - well, at least since Perot was running) was heading into some serious doo doo. I still believe we are undergoing a fundamental re-setting that will scrub off decades of artificial wealth, and there's nothing Obama or anybody can do about it. We might be starting to turn around now, or we could yet slide to depths we don't want to think about. You can see it as part of a normal macro-cycle, or you can see it as the result of 3 decades of unsound economic policy. I see it as the latter. The house of cards is coming down.

 

Why the gratuitous attack on Kennedy? Who knows what kind of Presidency he would have wound up with if he had been allowed to live. To be sure, his assassination elevated him to mythological status. Although he came from a Patrician family - a political dynasty (which is an animal that I deeply dislike) - in his words and policies, he was a decent person (as opposed to a smirking, strutting, swaggering frat-boy). He did a lot to inspire Americans, and to make America beautiful to the world (as did Reagan in his time in all fairness). Did he have his foibles (Marilyn Monroe)? Probably so. I think Bobbie Kennedy would have been a great President too. He had a deep sense of social justice, that seems to be common to the Kennedy family, as opposed to certain other dynasties that manifest a sense of privilege more than anything else. (And save the comments about Chappaquiddick - we know, we know.)

 

The first step to Republican recovery is to admit that you have a problem: admit that Republicans screwed the country and the world with Bush and the neo-cons (what the hell were you thinking?), apologize to the country and the world who were so happy to see the Bush / Cheney nightmare end, and resolve to do better. You will never be able to understand why the Republican party is on the ropes until you can honestly face the truth.

[macattak1]

Here are some pictures of Barack Obama's (Kenyan) father:

 

Here, we'll use Prince Saud al Faisal (of Saudi Arabia) as our reference Arab:

 

Go ask 100 people on the street if either of these is a black guy, or if they're both Arabs, and tell me what kind of answers you get.

 

Call him what you want Mac, but it's painfully clear you're getting all your ideas from people who are desperate to minimize the event, and to shoot the guy down instead of simply believing your own eyes and common sense. (Not to mention newspapers and broadcasts from all over the world.) In fact, it's remarkable how determined you seem to twist everything about the guy. It seems almost obsessive. I can't tell if you're disturbed about Obama's policies, or simply "disturbed".

 

If you want to call me racist, please, just do it. Please don't feel the need to hide around innuendos.

 

I have no horse in this race. I simply am looking at the numbers. I have no hidden agenda. I have no care if the next president of the US is Black, Chines, Scottish, Mexican, or Peruvian. It does not matter to me.

 

The US has twisted black into Black. So if a 'black' is elected, it is a turning point for Blacks in the US. But not really blacks from all over. Only US Blacks of slave ancestry.

 

Not Aboriginal blacks

 

Not Jamaican blacks

 

Not Dominican blacks

 

Not South African

 

Not Libyan African

 

Not Egyptian African

 

---

 

bty, here is Obama and a black Kenyan

 

Ask 100 people on the streets of the US? Or from all over the world? Will you get the answer you are so sure of?

 

Try debating me with out the "its painfully clear", "desperate", "twist everything about the guy", "almost obsessive", "you're disturbed". After removing these from your post what is your position based upon?

 

In case you are interested in facts. Which you are free to disprove. Then you teach me something, and you allow me to decide to continue in a broken course, or to admit that I do not have the facts, or have something drastically wrong. You then also teach others. Simply attacking me does not prove you correct.

 

Obama's father is clearly 1 generation closer to some black African roots. An example of a black Arab.

Obama's father is 7/8 Arab. Lets not just forget about this and pretend it does not exist.

Obama's father is 1/8 Kenyan. Lets not over emphasize this.

Obama only had one relative, a great great gp that was African black.

Obama and his father's side all have Arab names. Not African black names.

 

Read up on what is going on in Kenya these days. Make your own conclusions on why Obama skipped Kenya.

 

Of course, one can search for Obams eats babies and find a page that says its true. Up to us to disprove with lack of fact or with facts. But...

 

Here is a good read.

This is eye opening as well.

 

I am only disturbed by Obama's continual inaccurate portrayal of himself, what he will do, how he will do it, etc. v/s what is factually, what he really does, and how he really does it.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

Why does it matter what BO's skin color is?

 

I don't like/dislike the man for what he looks like. I dislike his policy.

 

I find it strange that we make a big deal about the "first black president". The fact that it's made such a big deal may be indicative of how far we (as a country) have left to go.

 

Americans diefy certain people, forgetting that they are people. JFK (along with the rest of the K's) is the one I find the most perplexing.

 

Exactly. This is the way I feel.

 

Obama ran a Black. Not black. He did not run as Arab black or Arab. Why? His choice. But there is a reason for why he chose the path.

 

A Black man elected to the white house, whether he is from African black slave blood Alabama, or a darker Arab will never change the US. Only when it does not matter and one does not run on any type of racial profile will we be over this garbage.

 

Personally, I would love to have the darkest black of African decent win the election. Then a Chines, an Indian, and East Indian, etc. If they were even just twice as qualified as Bush and Obama (which should not be too hard to find) I would be ecstatic!!!

 

Its not about race. Its about people making it about race. The politicians and their voters. Obama being black did not way into my vote one single little bit. What did minutely weigh into my vote is his running as Black when he is so white and arab.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

He's not Arabic. His color is a mix of his African Father and White Mother (did you forget about her?). In the U.S at the time he was born Obama was Black (or Negro). Black or African Americans have great variations in skin color just as White or Caucasians do. I'm considered White but have an olive tone. My ex-wife was a fair Redhead. Both White but very different.

 

No. I did not forget. I guessed it was pretty clear what his mother make up was.

 

Do you understand his father's make up?

 

Peace and Blessings

[retro-man]

If you want to call me racist, please, just do it. Please don't feel the need to hide around innuendos.

 

I have no horse in this race. I simply am looking at the numbers. I have no hidden agenda. I have no care if the next president of the US is Black, Chines, Scottish, Mexican, or Peruvian. It does not matter to me.

 

I am only disturbed by Obama's continual inaccurate portrayal of himself, what he will do, how he will do it, etc. v/s what is factually, what he really does, and how he really does it.

 

Peace and Blessings

Actually Mac, I don't think you're racist. I think you're letting your politics get in the way of common sense. Obama is not "inaccurately" portraying himself. He is using the common understanding that he and 99% of other Americans - and the world for that matter - have and grew up with. He defined himself as half black. From the New York Times to the Times of London, to CNN, to Mainichi Shimbun, the world proclaimed that the U.S. had elected its first "black" president. You're jumping out of your skin trying to take that down, and it looks twisted. That's not an ad-hominem attack on you, it's the naked truth. You're beyond the pale. Maybe not to the narrow, obsessively anti-Obama internet crannies where you go for your information, but to the other 99% of the world you are. You're not proving yourself smart, or discerning, or clever. You're proving yourself ..... out there, that's all.

 

And if you are acknowledging the fact that he is half white, why did you bother posting the photo of him next to a black Kenyan? That contrast is pointless to this discussion.